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howbahmando
Jul-05-2006, 4:39pm
Here's a description, to start with;

overall length 29 inches
nut to bridge 20 1/2 inches
17 tied nylon frets
black & gold label under the bridge says "GUNGOR / saz ve muzik evi/ Hoseyin Gungor / [address & phone #]"

The body, not including the soundboard,is carved from a single piece of wood; soundhole in the bottom.

I think this size is called a cura saz?

When I got it the frets were (as near as I can remember, it was a while ago) arranged equidistantlly ... one inch from the nut to fret 1, one inch from 1 to 2, one inch from 2 to 3, etc etc.... #Which doesn't work with any music system I know of, so I moved them into a standard European chromatic pattern.

It's mostly been hanging around since then (by the handy wire loop on the peghead). I looked around on the 'net, consulted Groves Dictionary, and got a book (in Turkish) from Lark in the Morning (Baglama Metodu, by Sinasi Ozel) but I could never quite figure out what I wanted to do with the instrument.

The other day it occurred to me to try the following tuning:

F D A #(left to right)

or

D F A (low to high, since the lowest string is in the middle)

I quite like this so far; seems to allow for melody playing down any of the strings, with the other two usable as drones.

Just wondering if anyone here has any comments #on the saz itself, the tuning, or the saz in Turkish or Greek music in general. #(There doesn't seem to be much of a saz scene here in Chicago!)

jim simpson
Jul-05-2006, 9:28pm
Frank,
I picked up a Saz last winter at an instrument auction. It was a pretty inexpensive purchase as it needs a little repair work. This one has separations in the back that need glued up and the neck angle has the action too high. I plan to reset the neck to playable angle. I found a "a la Turka" tuning listed as from bas DEADGC or "a la Franka tuning = GADGCF. I haven't had a chance to try either of these tunings yet due to the needed repair work. I will have to make a bridge for it. I could see showing up at a bluegrass jam with it.
In Ferrington's guitar book there is an illustration of a Saz that Ferrington make for David Lindley. It has a flat back instead of a bowl back. I guess that might make it more comfortable to play while standing.

howbahmando
Jul-05-2006, 10:13pm
Frank,
I picked up a Saz last winter at an instrument auction. It was a pretty inexpensive purchase as it needs a little repair work. This one has separations in the back that need glued up and the neck angle has the action too high. I plan to reset the neck to playable angle. I found a "a la Turka" tuning listed as from bas DEADGC or "a la Franka tuning = GADGCF. I haven't had a chance to try either of these tunings yet due to the needed repair work. I will have to make a bridge for it. I could see showing up at a bluegrass jam with it.
In Ferrington's guitar book there is an illustration of a Saz that Ferrington make for David Lindley. It has a flat back instead of a bowl back. I guess that might make it more comfortable to play while standing.
No resetting the neck on my saz - neck & body are all one piece! Fortunately no problems with that though.

Mine has just the three strings - six, technically, unison pairs on each side & an octave pair in the middle ... commonest tuning (I think) is GDA left to right/DGA low to high; Dave L., I think I read, tunes the side pairs alike (i.e. GDG or whatever; both Gs at the same pitch).

I did a saz search here on CBOM - found some very interesting stuff, but just wondering if anyone's thought of anything more to say on the subject since ...

zoukboy
Jul-08-2006, 12:31pm
Frank,

From your description I would say that you do have a cura (pr. "joora") saz. One common tuning is DAd like the D and A strings on the mandolin with a high d (1 whole step below the mandolin's e string). Another common tuning is an octave above the "bozuk duzen" tuning for the baglama saz, which is a re-entrant tuning: G D A with the G being 1 whole step below the A and the middle string D being lower than both the G and A.

My cura has 20 (instead of 17) frets spanning an octave and a 4th, so there are three extra frets for non-western notes on this particular instrument. (The longer scale baglama saz will have more "extra" frets - usually 18 to the octave.)

Laying out the western scale for these is pretty simple, it just takes a little doing. First, divide the scale length (20.5") by 17.8175. This will give you the distance between the nut and the first fret:

20.5/17.8175=1.1505

I measure this with a steel machinist's rule that is in 10ths and 100ths of an inch. Use a divider to mark a spot on each edge of the fingerboard.

Next, subtract that distance (1.1505) from 20.5 to get the distance from the bridge to the 1st fret, then divide again by 17.8175:

20.5 - 1.1505 = 19.3495

19.3495/17.8175 = 1.0859

This gives you the distance between the 1st and 2nd frets. Measure and mark the 2nd fret position.

Continue the process by subtracting 1.0859 from 19.3495 to get the distance between the bridge and 2nd fret.

19.3495-1.0859=18.2636

Now divide by 17.8175 to get the distance between the 2nd and 3rd frets:

18.2636/17.8175 = 1.0250

Measure and mark the 3rd fret position.

Next, subtract 1.0250 from 18.2636 to get the distance from the bridge to the 3rd fret, and so on...

Good luck!

howbahmando
Jul-08-2006, 3:14pm
Frank,

From your description I would say that you do have a cura (pr. "joora") saz. #One common tuning is DAd like the D and A strings on the mandolin with a high d (1 whole step below the mandolin's e string). #
Ah! i was thinking both D's in DAD were the same pitch. Which would have possibilities, of course, but an octave apart seems more promising.

I tried arranging the frets to allow for quarter tones, but it just got really confusing. Maybe I'll try that again some day.