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delsbrother
May-12-2006, 4:30pm
Hi, sorry if this should be handled via PM, but I can't seem to get mine to work.. plus this is slightly mando-related and kind of humorous..

In the French CD "Paris, Plages d'Hawaii" there's a short passage about the development of Hawaiian guitars in America. Now I can get the gist of what it's saying just from my High School French (and I love the sound of some of the phrases as is) but when I run it through an online translator some of the idioms don't come through (mods please delete if this is inappropriate in any way - though if you could forward it to someone who speaks French first I'd appreciate it):

Original:

Chris Knutsen, connu pour ses monstrueux instruments mi-harp mi-guitar aux formes les plus extravagantes met au point un modèle hawaiien dont les épaules tombantes à la Saint-Galmier ne sont pas sans rappeler le dulcimer des Appalaches, lui aussi joué posé à plat sur les cuisses. Au début des années 1910, Knutsen fabrique également des ukuleles endorses par Earnest Kaai, virtuose bientôt chargé de la musique au pavilion Hawaiien de l’exposition universelle de San Francisco. Et c’est dotés des ukuleles, mandolines, et guitares théorbées de ce luthier que les musiciens du Awai’s Royal Hawaiian Quartet conquièrent le public de la Panama-Pacific International Exposition de 1915. Bientôt, tous les fabricants ajoutent des modèles hawaiiens à leur catalogue. Toute l'Amérique joue à la mode hawaiienne. Le succès de ses instruments sera phénoménal jusqu’à l’apparition en 1927 des premières National à résonateurs et caisse metal – qui d’ailleurs conservent le dessin original de Knutsen perpétué pendant ce temps par Weissenborn. Lorsqu’en 1931 Adolf Rickenbacker réussit à installer l’électricité dans sa Fryin’ Pan, la guitare hawaiienne perd sa caisse de résonance et voit bientôt son nombre de cordes et de manches commencer à se multiplier; il lui vient des leviers, des pédales, des genouillères. À la fin des années 1940, elle ressemble à tout sauf à une guitare.

Alta Vista translation:

Chris Knutsen, known for its monstrous semi-guitar semi-harp instruments with the most extravagant forms develops a model hawaiien whose shoulders falling to Saint-Galmier are not without pointing out the dulcimer of the Appalachian Mountains, him also played posed flat on the thighs. At the beginning of the years 1910, Knutsen also manufactures ukuleles endorses by Earnest Kaai, virtuoso soon in charge of the music to the pavilion Hawaiien of the World Fair of San Francisco. And it is equipped with the ukuleles, mandolines, and théorbées guitars of this violin maker that the musicians of Awai' S Royal Hawaiian Quartet conquer the public of Panama-Pacific International Exposure of 1915. Soon, all the manufacturers add models hawaiiens to their catalogue. All America plays à.la.mode hawaiienne. The success of its instruments will be phenomenal until the appearance into 1927 of the first National with resonators and case metal - which besides preserve the original drawing of Knutsen perpetuated during this time by Weissenborn. When in 1931 Adolf Rickenbacker succeeds in installing electricity in its Fryin' Pan, the guitar hawaiienne loses its case of resonance and sees soon its number of cords and handles to start to multiply; it comes to him from the levers, the pedals, the knuckles. The end of 1940, it resembles except all with a guitar.

What the heck are they trying to say about Saint-Galmier and the Appalachians? Nationals preserve the Knutsen design perpetuated by Weissenborn? Knuckles? (I get that they're talking about multi-necked pedal steels, but knuckles?)

Help! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Oh, BTW, if you purchase this CD (I got mine through Elderly) the booklet with the above passage has some great pics of French Hawaiian guitar players and their instruments - Selmers, Patenottes, and Gelas - some of the latter with a mandolin-like double top. There's also a great pic of Django and several other musicians, including one with a mando and one (Django's brother Joseph) playing a Hawaiian guitar.

Darrell (whose Indian name is now "Posed Flat on Thighs")

DSDarr
May-12-2006, 5:06pm
Chris Knutsen, connu pour ses monstrueux instruments mi-harp mi-guitar aux formes les plus extravagantes met au point un modèle hawaiien dont les épaules tombantes à la Saint-Galmier ne sont pas sans rappeler le dulcimer des Appalaches, lui aussi joué posé à plat sur les cuisses.
Here is a quick and dirty translation of that sentence. I don't understand the allusion to Saint-Galmier either.

Chris Knutsen, known for his monstrous half-harp half-guitar instruments of most extravagant forms, devised a Hawaiian model whose sagging shoulders (à la Saint-Galmier) somewhat recall the form of the Appalachian dulcimer, which is also played on one's lap.

épaule = shoulder and refers to the form of the instrument. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the correct terminology in English. Bout?

-Dave

grandmainger
May-12-2006, 5:23pm
Le succès de ses instruments sera phénoménal jusqu’à l’apparition en 1927 des premières National à résonateurs et caisse metal – qui d’ailleurs conservent le dessin original de Knutsen perpétué pendant ce temps par Weissenborn.

means

The success of these instruments was phenomenal until the appearance into 1927 of the first #resonators #of the National brand (http://www.nationalguitars.com/) with metal cases - these actually follow/match the original drawing that Knutsen developped at the same time in Weissenborn.

Knuckles is a bad translation for the name of a piece of equipment fitted on, or used by, the knee (genouillère = genou = knee). Perhaps knee-operated 'pedals' ? I'm French, but not familiar with the topic! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

HTH

Germain

delsbrother
May-12-2006, 6:35pm
Ahh, merci, Dave et Germain!

I'm guessing they're talking about the "sloping shoulders" of some of Knutsen's Hawaiian instruments (http://www.harpguitars.net/knutsen_images/hcw11.jpg) - they come to a point in the upper bouts. I wonder if Saint-Galmier has a similar shape?

I don't know where they come up with "phenomenal success" - while Hawaiian music was indeed popular, both Knutsen and Weissenborn eventually died quite poor, probably in part because of competition from National.

BTW, Pedal steel guitars (http://www.swtafe.vic.edu.au/lrc/music/psg2.jpg) often have multiple strings, multiple necks, and knee-activated levers used to change the pitch of the strings (giving that characteristic Nashville whining sound).

Thanks again!

mythicfish
May-18-2006, 5:51am
As always, the French copy no one and no one copies thr French.

Curt
(ex-Peugot owner)

Lefty&French
May-18-2006, 1:30pm
Chris Knutsen, connu pour ses monstrueux instruments mi-harp mi-guitar aux formes les plus extravagantes met au point un modèle hawaiien dont les épaules tombantes à la Saint-Galmier ne sont pas sans rappeler le dulcimer des Appalaches, lui aussi joué posé à plat sur les cuisses.
(...)
Lorsqu’en 1931 Adolf Rickenbacker réussit à installer l’électricité dans sa Fryin’ Pan, la guitare hawaiienne perd sa caisse de résonance et voit bientôt son nombre de cordes et de manches commencer à se multiplier; il lui vient des leviers, des pédales, des genouillères.
1)Saint-Galmier explanation!
Saint-Galmier = "Badoit" water...
(look at the picture)

2)Germain was right:
"des leviers, des pédales, des genouillères"
pedal-steel guitar like...