left hand position

[billkilpatrick]

i disregarded the advise i got from guitar teacher immediately after he gave it, re how to hold the neck with the left hand (i'm righthanded). what he told me to do was place the thumb in the middle of the neck at the back instead of cradling it in the crook of my hand where the thumb meets the fingers. have i said that clearly? in other words, the recommended way of placing the thumb leaves only it, on the bottom and the fingertips, on the fingerboard, in contact with the instrument - not the hand.

i'm begining to doubt the wisdom of disregarding my teacher's sage advise as i've started to develop pains in my lefthand index finger when i play.

how do you hold your mandolin? of the two, lefthanded positions, which do you use?

the mandolin (and my charango) are much smaller and (to me) more difficult to hold on to properly, especially with the bowl back.

providing no one mentions the word "arthritis", i'm open to all suggestions and advice.

thanks - bill

[Bruce Evans]

Most of the time, I hold my guitar and mandolin (and ukulele and banjo) exactly the same way - in the crook of my hand. The only time that I move my thumb to the back of the neck is when I have to lay a finger flat on the fingerboard to barre more than one string. Steve Kaufman teaches this method in his rhythm guitar video. Classical guitarists usually keep their thumb on the back of the neck.

[Jim Garber]

The mandolin neck is way too small to hold the classical way. The charang is considerably wider. I would say if it hurts, don't do it.

This is from Munier method, showing the thumb positioned near the 2nd fret.

Jim

[billkilpatrick]

thanks guys, both of you, that's perfect. when i first saw the illustration i immediately felt a twinge in my index finger.

i'll have to work something out.

grazie mille - bill

[etbarbaric]

Hi Bill,

First, if it hurts, stop immediately and let your fingers and hand rest. Its far too easy to hurt yourself in semi-permanent ways with instruments... particularly metal-strung instruments. What ever you do, make sure that the joints of your fingers are not collapsing or undergoing any pain or stress. Understand the mechanics of your left hand and what you are asking it to do. Press the strings with only enough pressure to fret the string... no more. Check the action if its high.

As for hand position, this has been a long-term (ongoing) study for me. My musical background is as a violinist, so I first came to the Neapolitan mandolin with a violinist's left hand position. That is to say, cradling the neck more, with the fingers along, rather than across the neck. A number of people (including the modern German school that seems to somewat emulate the classical guitar) suggested I change this position.

Over the years I have gone through the fairly laborious process of re-learning left-hand positioning and technique to the more guitar-like position. I do find this position particularly useful for playing the wider-necked instruments such as the mandolino (tuned in fourths) and various early lutes and guitars (also predominantly in fourths). I agree with Jim that if your Charango has a wider neck, and is played more chordally, the guitar-like position may profit you here, particularly if you play the instrument with a strap.

I eventually decided that the more violin-like position works better for the Neapolitan mandolin (for me). With courses spaced by larger intervals (fifths), the extended position allows the necessary finger extensions while the narrower neck seems to logically fit the hand in this position.

It is very nice to be adept at both styles so that you can play different instruments comfortably as well as different styles of music.

Good luck,

Eric

[Eugene]

I came to mandolin via classical guitar, and my left-hand position tends to favor guitar-like more than most mandolinists with non-German bowlbacks...but it is a bit flexible. Perhaps most important is to maintain a position that is as comfortable as possible and allows free motion of the fingers. Largely, this will result from simply not cocking your wrist at extreme angle.

[vkioulaphides]

I will have to second Eric on the quasi-violin grip— for the (modern) Neapolitan instrument. I see no other way possible, for me at least. Naturally, with instruments having wider fingerboards, I can see the possibilities of the guitar-like grip and wholeheartedly applaud it.

But it all goes hand-in-hand (no pun intended): The Germans who advocate the guitar grip also play ENORMOUS instruments (by Neapolitan standards), with tree-trunk-like, thick necks, mile-wide fingerboards, etc., etc. In reverse reasoning, you would probably have a terrible time handling one of those with a "fiddler's grip". How would your fingers reach the notes on the fingerboard if you are gripping The Great Oak?

Also —to speak from the position of my personal ignorance— prior to my acquaintance with the better informed folks of the Café, 50% of my "repertoire" was violin music, the other 50% the folkie, Mediterranean mandolin rep with its limited technical demands. So, I never quite saw the need of anything but what I knew as the "standard" grip since time immemorial. And, being thoroughly untrained, I did not suffer from the "pressure of education" that initially swayed Eric. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Pasha Alden]

Hello everyone

This is an old thread and for all seasoned hands I am sure a rather boringly frayed one. However, as a newbie, I find that when fretting and especially when barring chords, or holding more than one string, my fingers seem to touch other strings, so I am assuming something is wrong with my position of my fingers.
My thumb is behind the neck of the mandolin. Which I think is more guitar like?
So should my fingers be violin like, that is along the courses, or should I have them rounded and showing "vertical" that is not along the fret?

That is one of the few things getting in my way when playing chords and I would so love to get the hang of it.

With many thanks

[JeffD]

My thumb is behind the neck of the mandolin. Which I think is more guitar like?
So should my fingers be violin like, that is along the courses, or should I have them rounded and showing "vertical" that is not along the fret?

This classic video will help. At 1:35 he talks about the left hand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmagoBQunZI

[bratsche]

It all depends on what each of your fingers has to be doing at any given moment. Some passages work well in "violin" position, but playing high up the neck or forming a certain awkward chord often requires one to adopt more of a "guitar" position. For this ever-changing scenario, you must be able to rapidly adapt your hand position according to the circumstances, and it requires always keeping the thumb flexible, and never rigid and tight.

bratsche

[JeffD]

I think the commenest scenario where a more guitarist position helps me is when I do formal barre chords.

[JeffD]

I think the commenest scenario where a more guitarist position helps me is when I do formal barre chords.

As it turns out I don't play barre chords all that often, only because I have found nicer sounding configurations.