Shipping to europe

[Oggy]

Has anyone on this cafe, living in Europe, bought a mandolin from the States through ebay or the classifieds on this site? In that case, did you have to pay VAT/taxes? I know that you have to if you buy from a company, but is there a difference when you buy from a person?

Please help...

[sboneill]

Oggy, I am not certain if this will help but I recently purchased a Calace Bowlback mandolin directly from the Calace shop in Italy and did not have to pay any VAT.

-Scott

[grandmainger]

Yup, I've been stung by customs before, both on personal and company purchases from the USA to London, UK. The law is there, and the customs will charge you VAT and extras... I've had a few packages go through without any tax though... It's pretty random.

If you buy a really vintage instrument, maybe over 50-60 years old, you might get away with it passing as an antique... but a used, recent instrument will also attract customs...

Sucks... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Germain

[Keith Miller]

Buy from the EU and you don't pay anything, from the US you will pay import duty and VAT, not only on the instrument cost but on the postage as well !! That said, I have never been charged any duty , I have bought a mandolin and numerous CDs from USA, it seems to be a bit hit or miss whether the customs actually pick you.
Keith.

[swampstomper]

There is serious import duty on instruments, new or used, in the Netherlands (where I live). The local "American Guitar Store" imports Martins etc. and pays about 40% of the wholesale price for the privledge (don't have the exact figure). VAT is then on top of that to the consumer. When something is shipped the content type and value must be declared and confirmed with a bill of sale and in general will be caught in customs. It's interesting that the reverse is not true -- AFAIK there is no import duty on instruments to the USA and since sales tax is local, not national, nothing there to pay either. New Acoustic Gallery (in Solingen DE) has a notice on their web site -- if shipped out of the EU, discount 16% (of course shipping must be paid).

[Greenmando]

Would you get taxed if you were to travel to the states or somewhere to buy one, and return with it. I guess I am talking about lying about declaring it.

[grandmainger]

Would you get taxed if you were to travel to the states or somewhere to buy one, and return with it. I guess I am talking about lying about declaring it.
Well, it is illegal, so it's up to you to risk it. I've done it.

For what it's worth, there is a significant difference in the value you're allowed to bring back and the one you're allowed to get shipped over the mail. In the UK, you're liable to pay import tax on any item you order if their value is over £18 ($32). If it's something you're bringing back with you, the limit is officially £145 ($270), though there were talks to up it to £1000.

HTH
Germain

[Jim Garber]

All I know is that it is prohibitively expensive to ship from Europe to the US from certain countries. My experience so far is Italy and Belgium. The Uk seems to be a little more reasonable.

Jim

[Lee]

Seems unfair to live in Europe, travel to America, purchase something which then becomes your personal property, then get your personal property taxed upon your return to Europe.
Equally unfair the other way around.
But, not much is fair in life.

[Jack Roberts]

I have a 100% record of having to pay VAT on shipments to Germany. It stings.

[mandelect]

I've bought a couple of instruments from the US, one of them a few weeks ago. I was prepared for the import duty and taxes so it wasn't a shock to me. I bought the last mando privately from an Ebay seller.

It works out at approx 4.5% import duty, which is added to the total cost of the instrument and postage & packing together - then a further 17.5% VAT added to the previous total. Bit of a cheek, having to pay import duty and then VAT on postage and packing, but there's no legal way to avoid it.

Definitely bumps up the price substantially but that's fine if it's something you can't buy in the UK (or the rest of Europe).

Oh... and the shipping company that delivers also charges a nominal collection fee, for collecting duty and taxes on behalf of the Inland Revenue.

[Greenmando]

Volvo had a program years ago. You could order your new Volvo and take delivery in Sweden. Drive it around in Europe on holiday, and then bring it back to them for over seas shipping. The reduction in fees for taxes and shipping because it was now a used car, paid for the holiday. I do not know if they still offer this or when it ended. But that's quite a savings.

[mandroid]

maybe a volvo Bus has the same deal, since i cant afford to live here either.
pay for the ferry to denmark, at least.

[Davetnova]

Perhaps a silly question but do these import taxes apply to things like Stewmac kits as opposed to finished instuments? I've been getting the urge lately to try my hand at building (thank you VERY much builders section) but i don't know if i have the skills to start from scratch and their A style kit looks like a good place to start. I'm at the point of counting yet unearned pennies and would prefer not to have unpleasant surprises from our wonderful customs and excise.

[mandelect]

Many years ago I bought a Stewmac kit version of their 5 string Emando (the one with the bender mechanism) and I was charged import duty and taxes. I have heard that stuff like that sometimes slips through without taxes being applied.

On one occasion I was charged for importing 3x CD's but mostly, even with much much bigger orders (of Cd's) they slip through without charge.

[grandmainger]

Perhaps a silly question but do these import taxes apply to things like Stewmac kits as opposed to finished instuments?
Yes. Anything that would be taxed (VAT) here could attract import tax. If you were to buy it from a local shop, you would pay VAT on it... It's the same with import...

My IV kit slipped through without getting charged though, even though the declared value was $120. It does seem pretty random.

Germain

[swampstomper]

We've discussed walking through customs in the airport with an undeclared instrument (or any new purchase, including used instruments, that will stay in the EU) -- it is illegal and if they stop you *they* determine the value (don't worry, they have lots of catalogs and good contacts in all lines of fine things) and will charge you duty and then fine you.

I don't think you have to pay VAT if you have bought it in the USA, however, just the import duty.

If you are travelling to Europe and will leave with your instrument, you have to declare it, convince them you will leave. In some cases a bond must be posted. This is what travelling bands have to do.

[grandmainger]

I don't think you have to pay VAT if you have bought it in the USA, however, just the import duty.
That's right. Though for all intent and purposes, that amounts to roughly the same I think. My Arches was taxed 20%, which is the same as the VAT on a new instrument in the UK. Still worked out a bargain mind you!

[swampstomper]

But there is a benefit -- if it's shipped from the USA to a foreign address you don't have to pay the local (USA) sales taxes. If you walk out of the store with it in the USA, you do. So it's a toss-up between shipping say Nashville -> Europe insured and paying the local TN sales tax.

[dunbarhamlin]

Seem to remember the last I had from the US (GDArmstrong 10 string ezouk) had about 25% on top in VAT and duty.

Charging is obscenely variable, to the point that I've had separate shipments of the same goods identically declared handled differently.

Don't know about stuff labelled as a 'kit' but guitar parts (usually) and unfinished wood (always) only attract VAT.

It's all just piracy, but availability, lead times, service levels, relative prices etc often make it worth the hassle. At the extreme, I've found it cheaper and faster do have tools made 40 miles away repatriated from the States - so much for carbon cost! Someone kick that soapbox out from under me...thanks.

[otterly2k]

I know this is a twist on the topic... but I just received a WHOPPING customs bill from having purchased my OM from a Canadian builder. It came 3 months later (after they held the instrument hostage for a week or so during shipping)...

I had no idea this was coming...can someone explain this? I feel dumb about it, but I figure there may be someone else out here with similar questions....

[Ray(T)]

Sorry if this is stating the obvious but why don't you phone the customs people and ask? On an extended trip from the UK to OZ a few years back I wanted to buy my film in Singapore and needed to know if I'd have to pay duty on it when I brought it back - I phoned them and got a very helpful reply.
Ray
(They said if it had been used it was no longer of any value so they wouldn't be interested - just in case you are)

[Lee]

Karen, I'd have thought NAFTA woul;d've done away with such bills.
Look into it. Good luck. I'm hoping there's nothing hidden with my Coombe coming in.

[Greenmando]

From what I have seen NAFTA only made it easier for American auto makers to build in Mexico and Canada and skip fees.
A friend of mine is a Canadian author, I had his American publisher send some books to his home to be autographed, they ended up opening it up and charged him the taxes for his own work. I repaid him of course and we had a big laugh about it.

It is understandable even if it is frustrating. We add a tariff to Japanese auto companies for bringing in trucks to make ours more competitive. Canada and Europe wish to encourage local commerce.

[Jim M.]

I'd ignore the bill, Karen. It's not like they have the staff to come out and try to collect.

I guess I've lucked out. I bought one instrument from Scotland that just arrived at my door -- no bills for import duty or added charges anywhere. And I traded instruments with someone in China -- neither of us got hit with import charges.

[BBarton]

Instruments going back and forth between Canada and the US should not have duty charged under NAFTA provided, of course, they were built in either of those two countries. #An instrument coming from the US into Canada (or vice vesra I presume) that was built somewhere else, say Australia or UK, will likely get whacked though! #But, taxes are still charged coming into Canada -- GST federally, plus provincial sales tax, plus usually a customs handling fee charged to collect the tax - go figure!

[otterly2k]

Unfortunately, I HAD to pay the bill. Since the instrument was shipped via UPS to my partner's workplace (they do a lot of shipping and it's the safest place for me to receive valuable packages)-- that's where the BILL was sent-- not even to my name. Very very strange. But it was not possible for me to simply ignore the bill b/c of that... so now I have to call them and see if it is challengeable. I don't hold a lot of hope out for getting the $ back.

bummer... but thanks, all, for the info... hopefully it will help me sound like I know what I"m talking about when I call.

KE

[trevor]

A couple of points.

Duty and VAT is payable on any import to the UK from outside the EU. Any movement within the EU is free of all taxes.

Underdeclaring value is considered by customs to be the same as not declaring. I have heard of confiscation and fines. They have acces to the internet, it is very easy to find out true values.