anybody need an original Loar F-5 tailpiece cover?

[kudzugypsy]

this seller has the worst spelling i've ever seen - not gonna be many hits from a search - but i think its the real deal - whether he gets $4K for it is iffy, but if you are sitting on a $150k LL, and need a tailpiece cover - then its peanuts.

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-F-5-Mandoline-Tail-Peace-Cover-The-Gibson_W0QQitemZ7405755322QQcategoryZ118980QQrdZ1Q
QcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-F-....iewItem</a>

[John Rosett]

so what's the difference between the tailpiece from a loar F5 and a garden variety teens A tailpiece?

[jim simpson]

4K's not too high but $10.00 for shipping? Phew!

[Bob A]

Hey, maybe he's parting it out! I'm gonna wait and buy the label.

[f5loar]

Let's see, strings $6.95, case cover $129.99,Waverly tuners $525.00, Lloyd Loar mandolin $175,000, tailpiece cover for your Loar......PRICELESS!

[kudzugypsy]

hey, if nothing else, the guy should get the award for the most hacked spelling job in a two sentence listing.

&lt;&lt; Loyd Lour Tail Peace Cover that belongs to a F-5 Maonoline &gt;&gt;

"Hooked on Phonics worked for Me!"
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[danb]

I sure wonder how he came to own just a tailpiece. I bet that's an interesting story. It looks pretty real to me, and it appears Ken's already on the scent!

[John Rosett]

so what's the difference between the tailpiece from a loar F5 and a garden variety teens A tailpiece?
seriously, anybody know? is it just the silver plating?

[glauber]

I sure wonder how he came to own just a tailpiece. I bet that's an interesting story. It looks pretty real to me, and it appears Ken's already on the scent!
He's got a whole instrument, but decided that he'll make more money by selling it one piece at a time. Next week: truss-rod cover.

[Darryl Wolfe]

so what's the difference between the tailpiece from a loar F5 and a garden variety teens A tailpiece?
seriously, anybody know? is it just the silver plating?
Silver plating and hand engraved. They have a little wriggle line around the edge. Teens "garden variety" is stamped

[Philip Halcomb]

Probably used to belong to this Loar, with the new repro tailpiece cover on it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Darryl Wolfe]

Where did that cover come from? I don't think it's one of mine

[danb]

I recognize my photo of 71634 there.. You saw it at SG Darryl http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[PaulD]

Pretty wild... $4K for a silver-plated piece (or is it peace? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) of sheet metal. It's a rare piece of mando history... what are the odds of finding one. WRT Philip's post... how many of the known Loars sport their original tailpiece cover? (Or conversely, how many of them are wearing repros?)

He says insurance is not available... if I were dropping $4K on something that small I would want it insured. Maybe you could escrow the money with the condition that it will be released upon receipt of a genuine Loar tailpiece cover.

I guess I must just be a bottom feeder... I could see dropping $4K or $5K on an F-style mando but it's not in the budget right now. Having the spare change to drop $4K on a tailpiece cover for a $150K-$180K mando is beyond my comprehension! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Non-mando digression: If you like his spelling, check out <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Violin-1800s-Otto-Bausch_W0QQitemZ7405745644QQcategoryZ38108QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ
1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">his other auction</a>. Where was "No child left behind" when he needed it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif It's amusing but it's also a shame that so many folks are "left behind" in a country as prosperous as the U.S. while we spend a bloody fortune for steroid enhanced sports stars and CEOs of failing companies. Oh well... in a capitalistic society we all vote with our $$$ on what is important to society.

Paul Doubek

[Darryl Wolfe]

I had two of them (originals) in the late 80's. I got the amazing price of $100 each for them. I probably ought to try and buy them back

[kudzugypsy]

would be a great story if he said that his pa found it in the parking lot / dressing room after a Bill Monroe concert...now that would be neat! seems like the photos of bills f-5 was missing the cover as early as the 50's.

as a matter of fact, i have lost the cover on my stage mando - there is just too much trouble if you break a string to pull it off on stage. you end up putting it in your pocket, or laying it on the bass amp, or ?

--- now i'm gonna have to be careful with my spelling after making fun of this guy http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[PaulD]

Another non-mando observation: This guy must be in 7th heaven! If you look at his other auctions in his feedback it's mostly $5 to $15 stuff. He must be on pins & needles waiting for this auction to end!

WRT spelling... I know I constantly have to double check some words and I certainly typo or brain #### sometimes. Not many folks are good enough to get it right all the time. It's just a shame how many people really lack basic reading and writing skills, even in white collar business settings. I met one guy in his 30s that was "home schooled" by his fundamentalist mother in the south end of Salt Lake valley... this guy and his younger brother couldn't sign their own names or read Cat In The Hat! His mother "protected" him to the point that he couldn't function in society. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

pd

[kww]

Let's hope he's smart enough not to take a cashier's check for 9000 dollars and send the 5000 dollars in change ...

[Ken Waltham]

True, that is a lot of money, but, high end stuff is always in demand, and...scarce!
This would be the 4th one I have acquired over the years... One came on an F2! I still use it on my June Loar today.
I would be more comfortable spending 4K on this, than 4K on many F5's I see out there.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[sunburst]

would be a great story if he said that his pa found it in the parking lot / dressing room after a Bill Monroe concert...
Several years ago, I was talking mandolins with Sam Bush, and he told the story of having the fingerboard extender cut off of his F5. He carried it around in his case for years, and finally lost it somewhere.
Lost it somewhere! Someday, we might see that auction.
"yessir, ladys and gentlemen, this here is the genuine fingerboard extender from none-other-than Sam Bush's manolin! Do I hear $4000http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?"

[f5loar]

Darryl you left out the most important difference between a Loar TP and a regular one. Lloyd personally hand tap tuned each Master Model TP until it was perfect. Removing the underside metal to get the right tone. It's no secret that's one reason Loars sound better. Legend has it that when Lloyd went on tour with the Gibsonians during July/August he carried a few spare TPs in his pocket. Back stage he would run into other mando pickers and hear their pros and cons about Gibson products. If you had an F2/F4 that was not up to snuff, Lloyd would pull out one his shinny new silver TPs and say try this and see how it improves the tremlos. That's why Ken and others have found F2s and such with Loar TPs on them. When Lloyd was let go they found a few dozen more in his top desk drawer and used them up pretty fast after he left. Once those were gone the tone changed and the rest we say is history.
You best believe if one of my Loars was missing it's original TP I'd pay that and more. Ken like many others understand Lloyd ain't tapping no more of them. It's the same reason banjo pickers will pay hundreds of dollars for a set of 40's National metal picks or hundreds of thousands of dollars for prewar Mastertones. They ain't making that kind of metal these days. It was all used up in the war effort.

[sunburst]

. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif .

[kudzugypsy]

tom - whats sad is you are a correct about the National metal picks - you will see a set routinely go for close to $100 on ebay. i remember going to look at a 30's National Duolian guitar (metal body) that a guy wanted to trade me a jeep for and in the case pocket were probably 20-30 old prewar MINT fingerpicks....heck i could have paid for the guitar twice just with those!


to me, showing someone will pay that kind of money should make the future sale of a LL more variable:
non original tailpiece - deduct $8K
non original case - deduct $10K
non original bridge - deduct $2K
non original tuners - deduct $20K
non original nut - deduct $2K

i see auction all the time for late 50's les paul parts and i just am amazed - a set of plastic PAF surrounds that you can get for $2 at stew-mac will be listed for $5-6K....crazy - these are PLASTIC - they have nothing to do with the sound. i've always thought that the people paying that kind of money were the forgers needing original parts - as was stated in another thread, IF you had enough original parts, it would make the job passing off a GOOD copy easier.

[PaulD]

True, that is a lot of money, but, high end stuff is always in demand, and...scarce!
This would be the 4th one I have acquired over the years... One came on an F2! I still use it on my June Loar today.
I would be more comfortable spending 4K on this, than 4K on many F5's I see out there.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Ken; I hope you didn't take my comments the wrong way. As I stated; I certainly understand that this is a rare item that, if someone needs it, is worth almost whatever they have to pay. I would imagine it's one of those things that makes a $10K difference in resale price of a Loar. It's just a little mind boggling to me... I had a hard time justifying $1600 for an F-9 when Guitar Center closed them out! That was a lucky find for you and the seller.

Paul Doubek

[f5loar]

While your price quotes are about double what they should be if you take off the price of a really pristine Loar and subtract all those things from it you would get the price of a beater. So $4,000 for a TP is in line when you put it in that perpective. You left out an original pickguard which would knock it down quite a bit. We have Darryl Wolfe to thank for repos on most of these "parts".

[kudzugypsy]

thats true, i have just come up with those figures off the top of my head, but i dont think they are all that out of line. (maybe the tuners) but didnt the last F-5 case go for $4500 quite a few years ago? (pre-LL price explosion)

if you have a *part* selling for $4k, then the absence of the *part* on an original loar is gonna have to be MORE to make it worth paying $4k for the *part* in the first place - otherwise it makes little sense to pay that kind of money for a part (ie, you're losing $$$) - unless you were just the kind of collector that HAD to have an original part at any cost.
(i would REALLY hope that X collector doesnt just drop $X,000 on a *non-essential* part just to have it)

anyway, like i said in the title - hope someone can find a good use for it - if ya need it, here it be http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Ken Waltham]

Paul D.. no, I never take anything personal, and I didn't get it wrong, no worry.
I was merely stating that these things are rare, and valuble. It is kind of ridiculous, but, hey.. go find another one.
As for some of those above comments about subtract this much for this, and that much for that... that's exactly how I look at it. When you get into these kind of dollars,( for Loars) best not be too emotional, and take a business view of it.
Tom, I had my jeweller, who is very "antique sensitive", make me a number of repros based on my Loar cover, and they were very good. But... hands down, flat out best one ever was from the master himself. Steve Gilchrist. Engraved on a 1930's pantagraph he bought in CA and transferred back to Oz, then rebuilt, as always, his work defies humanity.

[Duc Vu]

A question for Ken Waltham and other experts. Obviously you can see details that escape the rest of us, but how can you tell that it's an original Loar tailpiece from the blurry pics on the ebay posting?

Codeew, just trying to learn.

[mandroid]

At any point were the TP covers an alloy of nickle which would not wear off, instead of plating that does?
Gold and silver are soft and go away fairly quickly when submitted to having forearms rubbed across them in use.

[Darryl Wolfe]

but how can you tell that it's an original Loar tailpiece from the blurry pics on the ebay posting?
With our "eye"

[Duc Vu]

Great! By the time I've developed a discerning eye, I would have saved up enough for a Loar, or at least a Loar part!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[f5joe]

I own the pen tha LL used to sign the original instruments. Presently, it's valued at $125K. I will be glad to post pictures of it if there is any interest. I'll have to borrow it back from my banker first, however.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Ken Waltham]

As for identification.. I look at age, wear, patina, the logo, does it conform to specs, is it too clunky, or "big", most repros do not have the delicacy or grace of an original,( even the new ones don't) uhm, rust, etc. This one shows wear on the back, which is good.
Some Loar t/p covers wear the silver off, otheres, primarily '24's are "German silver", they seem to be almost like a Sterling silver, and do not wear much at all. My '24 is this way. Very shiney.
There are at least two patterns, and this one conforms to one of them. Uhhmmm... I guess experience and familiarity are the best tools.
On the downside... E**Y for one. It's full of scoundrels. Poor photos for another. The unwillingness to answer questions...
It is a little scary....

[mandophil(e)]

FYI the tailpiece cover sold for $5111.

[f5loar]

and not to Ken!!!!! It only takes two to tango and get the bid up.

[Ken Waltham]

Well, that's what happens when you're at work, and can't watch the action.
I believe it was worth it.

[sgarrity]

I'm all about spending whatever one wants to spend on our little hobby. But $5000 for a tailpiece? I guess if you have a Loar that needs one, maybe it's worth it? I'd be much more tempted to put about another $2000 with it and buy a '23 F4!

Shaun

[Brian Aldridge]

I have to say I am in the camp with Ken and whoever the buyer of the tailpiece cover was. When you need one to make your Loar complete, where are you going to get one? What will it be worth when Loars are going for a quarter mil? Buying a '23 F4 ain't a bad idea either though.

[glauber]

$5,000 for a tailpiece is a good investment if you can put it in a mandolin and sell that for $10,000 more. You actually made $5,000 profit there. That has nothing to do with mandolins as musical instruments.

[mandophil(e)]

A thing of beauty. It was found in a box of "stuff" that had belonged to the seller's grandfather. The gentleman had been a vaudeville performer/musician in the 20's, living in the Boston area. No sign of the mandolin it came off of.

[mandophil(e)]

back...

[f5loar]

Boston area? That should narrow down which one it belongs too! You might be able to double your money quick if you find that new owner. Boston was a hot bed for Loars that turned up in the 60's and 70's and 80's.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Good work Phil(e). #I was hoping that was you. #Can I have mine back now http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mandophil(e)]

Sorry Darryl, yours is still covering a tail.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Just kidding. But seriously, congrats. Orig TP cover makes it's way back home.

[Duc Vu]

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Gibson-Mandolin-Tailpiece-Cover-Loar-Style_W0QQitemZ290226824399QQihZ019QQcategoryZ359
QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Another one?</a>

[allenhopkins]

I think the $4K tailpiece cover delineates the line where a mandolin goes from being a musical instrument, to being a collectible artifact. Leaving Tom's japery aside, is there a scintilla of difference in playability, sound -- anything that matters musically -- between a Lloyd Loar with the original cover, and one with a repro cover -- or no cover at all?

You can get one helluva mandolin for $4K. You can probably feed a family in Bangla Desh for a year for that amount. Not a criticism, honestly; just a bit of a reflection on priorities and the difference between music and collecting.

[f5loar]

I'll be the first here to say this new one on ebay is 100% pure fake. Looks crudely handmade by a master blue collar redneck in his garage shop.
Close yet so far away. Japery? It was handed down to me by the late Walter K. Bauer who was in the Gibsonians with Lloyd Loar in Walter toured the Gibson plant many times during Loars short employment. While he was in his 90's when I corresponded with him his memory was pretty strong. He never really like the Gibsons after Loar left and went to Beacon mandolins.

[allenhopkins]

Darryl you left out the most important difference between a Loar TP and a regular one. Lloyd personally hand tap tuned each Master Model TP until it was perfect...
Japery, e.g.

[Jim Garber]

Close yet so far away. Japery? It was handed down to me by the late Walter K. Bauer who was in the Gibsonians with Lloyd Loar in Walter toured the Gibson plant many times during Loars short employment. While he was in his 90's when I corresponded with him his memory was pretty strong. He never really like the Gibsons after Loar left and went to Beacon mandolins.
It seems that he never really liked the Gibsons even while Loar was there. In fact, according to Walter Carter's book he detested the F5 altogether, hated the Virzi which he called a tone reducer and said that a "$50 Maurer mandoilin was better than that F5 creation."

[f5loar]

He told me after Gibson gave him a '24 with a Virzi (I guess all the Gibsonians got free instruments but maybe not of their choice)that after he left the group he had a violin maker remove it. Possible Walter K. was the first person to remove a Virzi without factory authorization.
Remember if you do something like that it voids the lifetime warranty.