ADD Strap Button on a Mid-Mo

[alespa]

I'm contemplating putting a strap button on the heel of my Mid-Mo and I'm wondering if anyone else here has done that. I have heard rumors that sometimes on some instruments it's better to have a luthier do it, or get exact placement instructions from the maker. I may be naive, but it seems to me that if you only need a hole around 1/8" wide by half inch deep, that putting it midway, top to bottom ought to do the trick . . . but of course, I don't want to ruin my precioussssss.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Also, if anyone has pics or suggestions for buttons that would look good on my mahogany, I would appreciate it. I'm thinking mahogany mainly to "hide" the button, and keep it small.

[Paul Hostetter]

Right like this:

http://www.lutherie.net/midmo.strap.jpg

This way it's out of the way, and doesn't stick out in back. When it's just hanging around your neck, the weight of the mandolin reinforces how the strap is engaged. Be sure and drill an appropriate pilot hole before running the screw in. Use wax, not soap on the threads. A little washer-like disc of felt or leather between the base of the metal button and the wood is a good idea. Don't forget to have fun playing it afterward.

[alespa]

Thanks Paul, that looks great. Is there a special kind of wax, or just any kind of paste/hard wax? You didn't say, but can I assume the general placement like you show in your picture will work? And one last question, is that a "guitar strap button"? I saw some at First Quality Music here:

http://www.fqms.com/search.....$1 (http://www.fqms.com/search.cfm?clearcache=1?UserID=945955&jsessionid=2c3087e7ef77$85$FA$1)

[Paul Hostetter]

I use paste wax, just a little, but any kind will work: candle wax, crayola, what have you. Soap attracts water and causes rust, which is why I disrecommend it.

I looked over FQMS's selection of strap buttons, the usual blah stuff, which is what I showed in the photo above too. Black enamel blends with the ebony, or you can have whatever metal color matches the tuners you have.

There are some really nice art-grade ones elsewhere, such as Stew-Mac and Elderly.

http://www.stewmac.com/catalog/images_1lg/5224_1lg.jpg

And they also have these, which work perfectly well:

http://www.stewmac.com/catalog/images_1lg/0170_1lg.jpg

The size for guitar is the size for everything.

[alespa]

Thanks Paul! I am thinking about looking for a mahogany button that would blend in with the Honduran Mahogany side/back. I don't want to introduce too many wood colors, since I already have three: ebony, mahogany and spruce. It's good to know I have a few selections.

[Paul Hostetter]

Mahogany is too soft, but there are other woods. Stew-Mac sells guitar endpins like these:

http://www.stewmac.com/catalog/images_1lg/5015_1lg.jpg

The snakewood would be my first choice because it's a very tough, hard wood, compared to koa. Either would probably work though. Then you need to get to a drillpress and so on to do this:

http://www.lutherie.net/endpin2.jpg

1) find the right screw
2) drill the precise hole for the screw
3) countersink for the head
4) cut off the shaft of the pin and smooth that surface
5) drill the pilothole for the screw; make it generous

Etcetera.

[Paul Hostetter]

PS: I never have done one of these on my own mandolins or even guitars. I attach the strap to the headstock instead, up by the G tuners away from the nut. Feels better to me.

[alespa]

Paul,

Great idea there! I saw those online and was wondering about that. I will definitely post pics of whatever I end up doing, in case anyone else finds themselves looking for the same solution.

Matt

[alespa]

Hey Paul,

Just thought I'd report I ordered two end pins yesterday from IV . . . ebony and rosewood. I'll see how they work, and which one I decide to use.

As I looked at the heel more closely, in context to my hand placement, I realized that placement will be critical for me to move my hand all the way up the fingerboard and not have the button in the way. For that reason, it does make me wonder if it will be better to put on the top side of the heel. If the OD of the largest part of the button is big enough to hold the strap loop in place, shouldn't that be okay?

Other thing is that I may want to contour the base of the button so it form fits the heel in the proper direction.

I'll post pics when it's done. The parts are coming UPS Ground, so it will probably be next week . . . and I'll have my new Bailey Strap by then . . .

[Paul Hostetter]

I thought you wanted something that matched.

The compelling reason for that location is security. On the other side of the neck, the strap will simply peel off the button. If the button sticks out of the face of the heel, it doesn't fit the case, the instrument tips forward, and it still peels off. Plus many people who try that split the heel with the screw. The strap connecting where I showed it doesn't seem to impede anyone's access to higher frets, if in fact they ever really play up there.

Again, I think attaching a strap to the headstock makes more sense anyway: the thing hangs on your body in a better place. But that's my preference. Have you at least tried that? It's one less hole to drill in your instrument.

The reason I suggested a disc of thick felt or leather for a washer was precisely to help with the fit. The area of contact is quite small.

[glauber]

I like the headstock attachment too. Also, the MidMo is light enough to play comfortably without a strap if you want - may want to try that. But i know Matt likes to tinker. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Pretty soon he'll be making mandolins.

[alespa]

I have tried to hold by itself and to some extent I can do, but not well enough to be satisfied with it that way.

I have the strap on the headstock right now. It works fine. When I hold in place at the heel, whether over two or one shoulder, it gives me more flexibility to move the headstock wherever without my movement being impeded by the strap. Since it is so light, as Glauber mentioned, having it on the heel, will give me more choices on how to strap on without getting in the way. Oh, and one other thing . . . sometimes I catch my hand/arm on the strap when I am trying to reach up or out in a way where the strap gets in the way. Not a huge thing, but it's part of what got me thinking about the button.

I picked the Rosewood, since from what I've seen, it could match better than the Snakewood. If it doesn't, I may see what I can do to sand and restain the right color. We'll see. I may decide I don't like either and just use on the A-body IV kit I "hope" to get for my summer project. I won't put the button on unless I'm 100% convinced it will look perfect. If it blends in, like I plan with the Rosewood, then it won't matter if I change my mind and tie onto the headstock.

As Glauber said, I do like to tinker . . . #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[DryBones]

have you discussed this with Mike at Mid-Missouri? He probably has recommendations from his experience with the instruments as well as input from other owners.

[aries753]

Paul, with the button where you showed it in your picture won't the mando want to fall away (tip out from the topside) from you?

I use the strap tied to the headstock.

[alespa]

Aries753, the strap would wrap around the heel to attach on the button pointing down toward the floor. This would be a stronger, or more reliable way of attaching. If it were on top, it would have to hang from the button pointing upward.

[spoefish]

Like most of the rest I admit to being a slave to what looks good. #But then, I think back to Pete Seeger's banjo, and the fact that he has a regular hardware store screw eye on the top side of the neck about a foot up from the pot. #makes me wince every time I see it, but it seems to work great and I am sure that is what he cares about. #Must be nice to be confident enough to just do what works best and not worry about what it will look like, or how it will affect the resale value of the instrument. #Maybe someday...

Stephen

1992 Flatiron Cadet, bright and loud
2003 Weber custom (gloss sunburst, maple) Hyalite, great all-round
2004 Arches A style f hole, walnut – smooth, and my current favorite
2004 Eastman 604, woody
Mid Missouri M-15 maple-spruce mandola, just perfect

[alespa]

Stephen, how do you like that Arches?

[otterly2k]

Stephen-- if you are Pete Seeger, that screw eye increases the value! Of course his instrument will (deservingly) be in the Smithsonian one day. I doubt he put that screw eye there out of confidence... probably out of necessity, and not caring a fig about being judged. I wonder when he did that...

[spoefish]

Well, it will be in the Smithsonian if he does not forget again and leave it on top of someones truck. #That happened a few years ago and this icon was nearly lost. #And I think the screw eye has been on there as far back as I can remember - I think at least when I saw him in Berkeley in the mid-60's.

And I love my Arches - it is a wonderful mandolin - red spruce top and walnut back and rim (pictures of it are the Arches website). #Not so loud, but wonderful sound for jazz and blues, or just sitting around and playing. #I have TI flatwounds on it right not, and it is so EASY to play. #Maybe that is why it is my fovorite.

Stephen

1992 Flatiron Cadet, bright and loud
2003 Weber custom (gloss sunburst, maple) Hyalite, great all-round
2004 Arches A style f hole, walnut – smooth, and my current favorite
2004 Eastman 604, woody
Mid Missouri M-15 maple-spruce mandola, just perfect

[glauber]

What would you expect from a b@njo player anyway? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I have a friend who left a banjo like that, unprotected on a truck. When he realized his mistake, he was horrified to find out that the worst had happened: several other people had already dumped banjos, accordions and ukuleles on the truck.

[glauber]

I was watching the Bob Dylan documentary the other day (No Way Home) and it shows Pete Seeger with a really beautiful banjo. Banjo eye-candy of sorts.

[mandroid]

FWIW I wrap my strap around the headstock, around the space between the G-D, A-E string pairs , well away from the nut., [covers the inlaid fleur de Lis in the middle, oh well]

[alespa]

I just got my endpins and viola chinrest. The chinrest is cool. I'll have to get some more if my other project works out.

The endpins are nice quality, especially for only $1 each, but the Rosewood was darker than I thought, and both are too dark to use on THIS mandolin, so the search continues. I may look at some metal strap buttons at a dealer today, but cant' get excited about that just yet. What I would really love to get is a Honduran Mahogany strap button that blends in with the instrument. No point in having it stand out.

I'll update once I make a decision and have pics to put up.

[Paul Hostetter]

I had a feeling the rosewood was going to be too dark. Mahogany is simply too soft to be a safe choice. Koa is about the same color, but it's still a bit risky. There are rosewoods that could match, but the typical violin rosewood is dark. The palest strong and stable wood, closest in color to that neck, that is commercially available, would be boxwood. They're easy to find. If you have a drillpress or even a beefy powerdrill and a way to clamp it down, you can turn your own button. I made one in tortoiseshell plastic recently. It took half an hour and looks fab. But I really think making one from any mahogany would be quite ill-advised.

[alespa]

Paul, thanks. I do have a drillpress and a good power drill, router, table saw, compound mitre saw . . . but I am curious how I would turn my own (other than going to a lathe demo at WoodCraft and talking them into it).

I appreciate the comment on the boxwood . . . as long as I can color to match, which I know I can go to Rockler and the guys there are really good at helping out, plus they have a huge assortment of different things. I could take the mando and the button in to color match. Knowing those guys, they woud have fun doing that . . .

[Paul Hostetter]

You don't need a miter saw, nor lathe tools of any sort. Get your rough piece of wood with grain oriented just right, drill the hole then use an approriate diameter 2" bolt with a nut and tighten them down good. Using the end of the bolt as a way to hand-hold it, rough the shape with files and rasps. Chuck the end of the bolt in the drill press and work it the rest of the way with progressively finer files. The very top will of course have the head of the bolt in the way, so after you have everything else shaped and polished, undo the nut and bolt and hand finish the very top, then countersink the hole as you did with the store-boughten one.

It's a tiny item, even a 1/4" powerdrill clamped to a table will work. A drill press is much better of course. Keep the RPM down to avoid burning and loading the files. 1000 or less is good.

[DryBones]

I would go metal and match the rest of the hardware,after all...that is what it is! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[alespa]

Paul, I hope you didn't think I thought I would need all those tools, just had to mention it . . . great idea you have!

Well, I have the hole in the heel. I went to the local shop and decided to get a chrome button (to match the tuners) installed with black felt (to match ebony) for a total of $8.25 . . . and of course used the opportunity to pick up some more strings. I figure that at least I have the hole in the right spot and don't have to worry about that. Actually, the guy let me watch. He didn't mind sharing his opinion with me, to which I heartely agree, that mandolin makers should have buttons already installed. This guy told that I was one in a long line of other guys that have stood before him asking him to do the same thing. It took about 20 seconds. So, the good news for me is if I decide to swap out the chrome piece for a wood piece, I can carefully backout the screw and use it, or one of same diameter and length, to put the new button on.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Paul Hostetter]

He didn't mind sharing his opinion with me, to which I heartely agree, that mandolin makers should have buttons already installed.

I certainly wouldn't want one in any of my mandolins. I hope no one ever presumes that of me. It would kill a sale. I install them often for people in my shop, but many more mandolinists do without a strap altogether, or attach them at the headstock, which is much less invasive.

[alespa]

Here's what it looks like.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6521/buttononly7ru.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2168/buttonheel0nk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)