New F-9 for $2300?

[Zemper]

Hey guys, Im pretty excited, I found a brand new Gibson f-9 for $2300 plus the shipping, but my question is first off is 2300 good for a new f-9, and also is it worth getting a new one with a warranty over a slightly used but mint one for under 2k?
Is the Gibson lifetime warranty all its cracked up to be? What would it even cover? Thanks for your help

P.S. Yellowstone vs. F-9 Thoughts, value taken into account.... I think Im going for the F-9

[ronlane3]

Zemper,

To me that is a very good price. The other stuff that you are talking about is just personal preference, I personally wanted the warranty and the new instrument, some people would rather have a "broken-in" mandolin.

[Zemper]

Yeah thats true... Does anyone have any experience with Gibson warranties, good or bad..... Thats a pic of the f9 Its got a nice little bit of flame on the back....

The Gibson warranty is one of the best (to the original owner, not transferable). Charlie Derrington takes great care of Gibson owners. There are some other F9 threads on the Cafe that would make good reading..........

[Frank Russell]

Zemper - I replied on the other thread about F9's (the one that got long and political)already, but here's a short version. Go for it. You can get a used one for 2-300 less if you wait and hunt, but that's an excellent price for one with warranty. If it's near as good as mine, you'll be happy. Frank.

[KevinM]

If the $2300 isn't bothering you, treat yourself. Given the current milieu of good products and resposive customer service, I wouldn't hesitate to go used either on a Gibson.

[pickinNgrinnin]

Yellowstone vs F-9?

I like them both but I currently have a Yellowstone with tone bars. I like the tone bar sound over the X braced standard set up.

I've played some nice sounding F-9's but they are just too plain looking for my taste. You are not going to find a new Yellowstone for $2,300.

The warranty factor has been a non-issue for me for the past 25 years of playing. I've not had a Mandolin that ever needed warranty work. I bought my Yellowstone used and by the time it needs work, someone else will probably be playing it. If it does need attention during my stewardship, I'd be willing to pay Bruce and Co. for the repair.

[mikeyes]

When you need the warranty, you really need it. Here is a Gibson warranty story:
I bought my son a Gibson L-0 guitar a number of years ago just before they were making guitars in the Bozeman plant. A few months later the finish had started to bubble up and we had the dealer send it off to Bozeman for refinishing under the warranty. About a year later it was not back yet and I began to get hot under the collar. After an inquiry, Gibson reported that they could find the body of the guitar but not the neck. Apparently it was lost and then used as parts or something, that was never clear. They offered to give us another one, but at that time they were not making that model anymore (they later started making them again). So.... the custom shop made us one!

Now Jay has a custom made L-00 (they upgraded) maybe the only one made that year. It sounds and plays better than the original. I love the Gibson warranty.

Now, after such nice words, what is the warranty on my 1987 F5L? Is it just one year or forever as long as I own it?

Mike Keyes

[ronlane3]

The Gibson warranty is one of the best (to the original owner, not transferable). Charlie Derrington takes great care of Gibson owners. There are some other F9 threads on the Cafe that would make good reading..........
As I sit here eating my popcorn watching this thread grow, I find myself wondering, has Dale gone soft on Gibson http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Charlie Derrington]

Mike, if you are the original owner, your F-5L is covered for as long as you are still alive. Even if you are not the original owner, PM me with your problem, and we'll see what we can do.

Charlie

[mandoryan]

ronlane,
That's what I was thinkin' too. I think he's gonna start ordering Mandohack blue A9's with radiused boards and customs nut sizes.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ....

[Zemper]

Thanks so much for all of your replies... I took your advice since all the responses seemed positive about the warranties, and bought the new one for 2300...
I had a Yellowstone on order with tone bars and a cedar top... I posted a pic of the fern I modeled the yellowstone i ordered after, only difference was I had the tear drop shaped fingerboard extension...I would have ended up spending 3200, when I am the type of person who would be just as happy with a nice sounding suttle looking F9....
The bottom line to me is that I think the F9 is a classy timeless instrument that says a lot about the player who plays it, who is willing to pick what is really important about a mandolin and set aside the bells and whistles...

" The bottom line to me is that I think the F9 is a classy timeless instrument that says a lot about the player who plays it, who is willing to pick what is really important about a mandolin and set aside the bells and whistles... "

If your still playing that F9 in 3 years I might agree with that statement......................

[Coy Wylie]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Dale, you da man! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bill Snyder]

Zemoer I think you done good. I may be odd man out, but I think I prefer the one color top of the F-9 to a sunburst. As far as the lack of other ornamentation I think the only thing I would want added to the F-9 might be a bound peghead, and maybe a simple inlay. If I had the money I would consider buying one myself.
Guess I am just a simple guy

[b.pat]

A new f9 just sold on ebay for $1700. FYI
B.Pat

[doanepoole]

The bottom line to me is that I think the F9 is a classy timeless instrument that says a lot about the player who plays it, who is willing to pick what is really important about a mandolin and set aside the bells and whistles...

I think F-9's sound great and are decent options for pickers, but I also think that full body binding and fretmarkers are more than just bells and whistles. They are protective or functional features.

[Walter Newton]

I think the F9...says a lot about the player who plays it, who is willing to pick what is really important about a mandolin and set aside the bells and whistles...

An A9 might make sense in the above, for $2300 you're certainly paying for scrollwork bells & whistles.

Well, as Charlie D says "vote with your pocketbook". Kudos to Zemper for buying American & letting us all discuss it with him. Enjoy your new mando & we are glad to have you here on the Cafe.

[GTison]

I'M W/WALTER ON THIS. Esthetics IS always important. I didn't marry my wife only cause I thought she could perform the basic IMPORTANT FUNCTIONS of a wife. That sounds like something Spock would do. If folks(me included ) only based mandolin choices based on sound alone who knows what would be the favorite. check the mandolin tasting CD.

[Tom C]

Walter did not say "Esthetics IS always important". -You may want to take that back
as it is of your opinion only and very.....I won't say it. I'm sure 90% of the players would want something that sounded great but looked like crap, than having something that looked great but sounded like crap. They are for playing and not looking at. A nice looking mando is just a bonus. tone and playabiliy are #1and2

[Coy Wylie]

And yet another: see the classifieds (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=9304&query=retrieval)

[mmukav]

I would think long and hard before you plunk your money down for the F9--and this is based on experience with an A9-
the finish on these mandolins is very thin and very fragile--and Gibson's warranty DOES NOT COVER WEAR OF IT'S FINISHES!-so if you do wind up getting the F9--be very careful--do not play it with any part of your hands or fingers touching the top-in fact don't even look at the top hard-it will wear off-the stain will wear off-and Gibson will not repair or replace it.

[ronlane3]

mmukav, Any mandolin will have the finish wear off if you play it enough. I've had my F-9 for over a year now and I play it just about everyday, with my pinky touching the top and the finish is not worn on it. It is shiny in that area, but it hasn't worn off. Besides, some of the best mandolins I've ever seen have had the finish wore off of them, Sam's Hoss and Mr. Monroe's Loar just to name two.

Different strokes for different folks, but I'm with Dale on his comment, Kudos for people buying GREAT AMERICAN quality instruments and sharing them with us.

[Zemper]

Thanks for all the replies... Dont get me wrong, bells and whistles to me are important, but the bells and whistles that scream the loadest are the f body, the ebony board, and the american mad gibson quality... The rest to me seems to be a little uneccesary for me right now... But Dale i do agree, I do not know what I will be playing in 3 years.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

BTW Any type of surface protectant I can use on the top to kep a nice waxy protection on there?

[mmukav]

Well Ron, the finish on my A9 isn't just shiny, the finish is gone,the stain is gone, down to bare wood! I was very disappointed in this aspect of the mando. Sam's Hoss is HOW OLD? I'll guarantee you it's over 1 year old! And Bill Monroe's? What-over 50? My mandolin is 1 year old. Gibson says the thin finish improves the tone. Well for $1200 they should make it more durable. I'm all for buying American but only if it's a quality product, and only if that product is backed by the company. I can see wear on an instrument that's 10 years old or more, but I can't see spending good money on something that's wearing out after 1 year.

[Frank Russell]

Different strokes, I guess. I can't wait for the finish on my F9 and A9 to wear that thin. I like the look of a well played mandolin. If I wanted thick, glossy finish, I would have kept all the Kentuckys, MK's and others I have owned. Bare wood showing tells me I'm playing the hell out of it. I looked at some very expensive mandolins today, and came away with a smile, because none of them had the tone of my little brown beauties. Frank

[Zemper]

Frussel, I feel you to the bone.... Thats how you know a real mandolon lover... When they play their hoss till the finish turns back to how mother nature made it

[mmukav]

Well Frussel, you won't have to wait long--and if you play your mando more than I do, which I consider regularly--it will wear through much faster than mine did. I'm just wondering now what damage will occur to the exposed wood, will the top now dry out and crack? I'll have to ask the people at Gibson about that one.

[doanepoole]

I don't understand something about this. #I've always heard that varnish finishes are notorious for wearing through, especially in the neck, after extensive use.

Now I have a varnished finished Gibson that is 90 years old, and the finish remains almost perfectly in tact after almost a century of use.

Are certain varnish finishes (or any finishes for that matter) more suscpetible to wearing through?

[mmukav]

Varnish is usually fragile, and that's what I don't understand about the Gibson 9 series. I was told (by Gibson)that they have a satin lacquer finish, and I always thought lacquer held up pretty good. I don't get it. Is it sprayed too thin? Is it a cost cutting measure? I didn't get any answers from Gibson.(and guys, I'm all down with the worn finish lookin' cool, and lookin' like Willie's Trigger and all that, but my concern is the wood. What happens when that exposed wood dries out? Then what?)

[Big Joe]

The finish on your mandolin may be original or it may not. Many of the old mandolins have been refinished. However, depending upon how much it was played in its early years and what care was taken with it will help determine the quality of the finish later on.

Varnish finishes can be very fragile and still be quite durable. If you have a problem with sweaty palms or forearm you will likely stain the varnish and it will begin to deteriorate. If it is exposed to certain chemicals or water or most polishes on the market the finsih will deteriorate quite easily. On instruments that are older the finish gets harder and more resiliant to damage. However, each person is different and how the finish holds up is as individual as anything else.

On an A9 or any other mandolin the finish may last one person forever and another a very short period. It is not the finish or the instrument in many cases, but the player. Each persons skin emits oils and acids. Some are not harmfull or could be helpfull. Some just have a body chemistry that seems to eat finish. It really does not seem to matter the type of finish or the depth of it. Some people just are harder on a particular finish than another. So, while one may see the finish on their mandolin wear quickly, another person with the exact same instrument and the exact same finish will see it last forever. It has to do with environmental exposure, heat, cold, humidity, skin chemistry, how one holds the instrument when playing, etc, etc, etc. Finish has one primary purpose and that is to protect the raw wood. There is plenty of finish on nearly all mandolins to do that even when it appears to be wearing off.

Finish is also a very personal choice. I don't like satin finishes myself. I love the look of a highly buffed lacquer, but really prefer the simpler sheen of a fine varnish/french polish finish. I realize the finish is not going to be as durable and I take extra precautions because of that. I use an arm rest because my big ole forearm will eat the varnish off anything. I use a pickguard (a small one) to keep my picking hand off the top so I don't tear the finish off. I keep a diaper with my mandolin and wipe it off each time after I play to keep any moisture, oil, or chemical off th finish as best as possible. I keep it on a stand in the house where it is protected from the rest of the room but where it can be kept at a pretty consistent humidity where it is easier for me to monitor (and it is easier to reach for and play). I carry it in only a high quality case that does not harm the finish. I am careful about who I let play my mandolin to help ensure the finish will last. Well, sometimes I'm careful about letting people play it but not often. However, I may ask them to be careful with it. I carry a rag to drape over the back of it in the summer when I go to play it so I don't sweat on it and eat the finish off the back. These all help and they will help on a good lacquer mandolin too.

Now to a more relevant issue to the A9. Part of the reason it sells for such a low price is the finish. It does have a thin finish and we make no secret of that. The finish is not a waranteed item and that is also made clear. A good part of the reason it sounds so good is the finish that is on it and the thickness, etc. Most players looking at an A9 are looking for the sound quality. There are plenty of pac rim manodlins with higly gloss poly finishes that will not wear ever. The mandolins will never improve with age and are not tap tuned or, or, or... They are what they are and the A9 is what it is. If one is more concerned about the shiny and durable finish, get an Epiphone. Not a bad mandolin for the money and it will look pretty for quite awhile.

We have discovered many people want a Gibson mandolin that sounds like a Gibson. In order to reach a pricepoint they are willing to sacrifice certain things. Tone and playability are not what they are willing to sacrifice. They are willing to sacrifice appearance. For those who don't want an a basic mandolin we offer both A models and F models with increasing finish and pearl and binding for increasing prices. The F5G is a great mandolin with a lacquer finish that is reasonably priced and will offer the same sound, playability and finish as a far more expensive mandolin for those who wish a better finish. Like any manufacturer, there are different levels for different people. You can buy an escort or a Lincoln from the same maker. They are priced different and they are not for the same people. Most want a Lincoln but can only or will only spend for an escort. The same goes for mandolins. We offer a variety for each pocketbook. That has been our philosophy in the line up we have. Not everyone can or will get a master model and not everyone will want an A9. But, both are offered. We sell an awful lot more A9 than master models. Price and ability to build the Master Models limits their sales. The A9 and F9 are the most popular mandolins we have ever built. But, they are not for everyone. Thank you.

[mmukav]

If all I was concerned about was the finish I would have kept my Epiphone, with the nitro finish. I went with Gibson for several reasons. The most important being the quality, and the Gibson name. I am very pleased with the sound of my A9. I am not happy with the finish. I am not happy with the answers and lack of suggestions I recieved from Gibson. I did understand going in that this is an entry level instrument. What I was not prepared for was the finish wearing so quickly. I am very careful with my instruments, I keep them in their cases, I humidify them, I wipe them after playing, I keep them polished. I oil the fretboard regularly, I don't sweat a lot, I wash my hands before I play. I am VERY CONCERNED now that I have bare wood showing. Again I ask, will the bare wood crack? And if it does, will Gibson honor the warranty and repair it? I sent my mandolin into Gibson, they looked at it. They did repair the crack in the fretboard, (which is a whole other issue) they would not do anything with the finish on the top. Not even a suggestion about what could be done with it, even if I PAID FOR THE REPAIR! The crack was repaired, the mando boxed up and sent back to me, now I'll have to take it somewhere, try to get the BARE WOOD covered, and pay the cost myself. Ridiculous!

[Tom C]

mmukav, I understand everything you say. but with what you have, but I have to agree with frussell. I'd just play the heck out of it. Sam Bush's '37 , Barry Mitterhoffs '42 -They're down to the bare wood in spots.

[Big Joe]

Let me say this clearly. The finish is NOT covered on any mandolin under warranty by any manufacturer I know of. We can refinish it any way you like. We can make several suggestions but since I've not seen it I cannot speak about your mandolin. We are not attempting to be hard to work with, we just may not know exactly what it is you want or expect and it is possible we cannot do what you want. If you call me on my phone I will be happy to discuss it with you. You can e-mail me at jvest@gibson.com for my number. Believe me, we want only happy customers and do what we can to accomplish that. If the issue is one we can resolve it will be done. That is a promise. So, rather than be upset, just get ahold of me. Thank you.

[Hans]

[QUOTE] "heard this is especially true of Brentrup finishes."

Although varnish finishes are more fragile than lacquer, my varnish isn't any more fragile than any other high quality instrument varnish being used. I have had no complaints from anyone. None of my demos have worn through, and they have been played extensively by quite a variety of folks over the years. I do caution owners to be very careful for the first few months, but one must realize that varnish takes a few months to set up properly. Lacquer is "bulletproof" in a matter of weeks.

Hans.

[mmukav]

Joe-thanks for the reply. I sent a message to your mailbox. Mike

[250sc]

I'm not sure about the concern of an instrument cracking because of "bare wood" being exposed. The inside of mandos are bare wood so they are always exposed to the air and effected by humidity, which is the most likley cause of cracks in my area. (cold winters/central heat)

I have a new Collings MT A with a flat finish (except for the back of the neck and a quarter sized spot on the face where I anchor my little finger)These areas polished up within the first week of playing. Maybe I'll wear through in time. I don't know. But I could never have afforded an instrument with the sound and quality of this mando and am grateful that Gibson and Collings are doing what they can to make great, affordable mandos.

[Frank Russell]

mmukav - The thin finish has always been clearly advertised, and discussed to great lengths on this board. #Like Big Joe said, body chemistry could be a possible culprit. #I used to have a friend whose sweat was like battery acid. #He rusted strings within hours, and all his guitars were eaten where his arm, hands and fingers rested. #The fine, woody, open sound of the F9s and A9s has been attributed to this thin finish, and I for one am a believer, having played many other laquer finish Gibsons which were not as open to my ears as a new A9. #Perhaps you would be better served with a nice Weber, like an Absaroka, which has beautiful finish, and can be found used in the same range. #If you put your A9 up for sale, let me know, I'm sure someone here will grab it up and wear more holes in it. #By the way, both of mine are used, the F9 even went on tour, as I understand it, and all it has is a little shine in the "finger plant" area. And I play at least two or three hours a day, and I'm a big sweaty guy. (probably more than anyone needed to know) Frank

[pickinNgrinnin]

[QUOTE]and I'm a big sweaty guy.

OK Frank...now you've gone too far http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Frank Russell]

Sorry pNg, but it's hot where I live. I guess that was a pretty graphic visual. When I lived down South, ladies didn't sweat, they "glowed." In this part of Southern California, they are already glowing up a storm. We hit summer this year in March. People who tell you the desert here has a "dry heat" are lying through their sweaty lips. Frank

[Charlie Derrington]

Hi all.....

Thought I'd post on this one all the way from the Czech Republic (where I'm traveling on business).

Mike, I personally looked at your mando and it exhibits all of the same problems I had on my first thin-finished mandolin. It appears you are dragging your finger-nail on the top which is scraping off the finish in the area questioned. I had to change my playing style to keep this from happening on my mandolins. It's a hard thing, but the only thing that will keep a fragile finish from wearing through. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I asked Sherry to seal the area (for no charge). Now, you'll always be able to see the spot, but it will be resealed. The only way to completely make the spot vanish, is to refinish the top (which I wouldn't suggest).

The only way (other than using poly, or concrete) to keep this from happening in the future, is for you to keep your finger off of the top. Otherwise, just don't worry about it and do like Monroe did..... wear a hole in your top. :-)


Charlie

"Thought I'd post on this one all the way from the Czech Republic (where I'm traveling on business)."

Hmmm...... rumours abound, but Charlie D. over in the Czech Republic?

A new line of Flatironski mandos in the works possibly..... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Hmmm

[pickinNgrinnin]

You know...I was thinking the same thing.

We can't go on together, with suspicious minds!

Flatironski - nice one Dale http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

Speaking of finish wear, has anyone seen Ronnie McCoury's Gilchrist lately? Holy cow! I guess he'll have a third f-hole there pretty soon.

[JimW]

Hmmm, maybe Charlie is over there looking at fiddles. You know Gibson should really have a line of Gibson fiddles at OAI to make their line-up complete. From what I hear, the luthiers in the Czech Republic make very nice fiddles too.

Just a thought... or maybe... na....not Charlie. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jim Watts

[doanepoole]

Also basses. I hear alot of good Czech built uprights.

[BigJoe]

Actually the Bluegrass Showcase does have some very nice basses and a few fiddles hand made in America that will blow you out of your chair. We did not build any of them, but with luthiers like than on this planet, we can stick to what we do and continue to build cool mandolins.

[Zemper]

I just got my F9 in the mail, after deciding not to buy it and send it back because I found the perfect 1999 F5g.... Only problem is the F9 is awesome... Sounds great, has loads of flame, impresses me more and more every second... BUT the F5G is soo sweet too.... I got it for a great price $2850 with an abbreviated pickguard and a case in like new condition. It sounded so good so I bought it.... I can still cancel either one but I think Im gonna send back the F9, the G is too good to turn up... Thoughts...?

PS Check out the F5G

[Zemper]

But thenagain, check out the flame on the F9..... What do you think... WOrth the extra 500 for the G? I know theres no solid answer just looking for some educated opinions....

" The bottom line to me is that I think the F9 is a classy timeless instrument that says a lot about the player who plays it, who is willing to pick what is really important about a mandolin and set aside the bells and whistles... "

Hmmmmmmm.......you don't need those bells & whistles, send the F5G back..............cuz it's all about tone.......right?

[Zemper]

Hey, did I ever say I was the player it speaks about.... Well maybe I did but I really find the f5g to be an attractive and timeless instrument as well, were not talking about an import with vine inlays..... The G seems liike it will hold its value better to because it is used,,, What do you think Dale?

[Jaded]

I have been very happy with my F5G. Keep whichever one you like the best.

With reasonable care, the F5G should always bring about $2400 IMHO.....We really don't know what the used market price is on F9's at the moment......I feel about $1600 right now. So in the short term, the F5G would seem the better "investment"..........not to mention the bells & whistles ! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Zemper]

yeah, i think im gonna stick with the G but for what its worth to anyone out there looking for an F9, if you like how it looks GO FOR IT!!! This baby sounds great and has loads of flame, im sure aomusicshop.com is gonna resell it, so if youre looking check this one out, shes perfect....

[Walter Newton]

Heck you've got both of 'em in hand, what are you asking us for??...If it's really all about the tone and feel go for the one you like best the sound/feel of best.