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pettyman
Mar-06-2006, 5:11pm
Hi.

I've just received my amazon order through the post...

I have heard Ricky Skaggs on a couple of CDs performing with other artists (mainly The Chieftains). So...

I bought his CD, Brand New Strings. I love it. Got some real variation within the CD.

Just thought I would ask what other people thought?

Cheers
Matt

Moose
Mar-06-2006, 5:20pm
I'm bett'n you're gonna' get quite a few - and varied - opinions on Mr. Scaggs and his.....music. "Let 'r go, boys"- Moose. **(by the way; I got friends in BOTH places - hee.. hee..). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

pettyman
Mar-06-2006, 5:25pm
I'm used to varied opinions (I play the harmonica too and am a Bob Dylan fan!)

So let's here it!!!

red7flag
Mar-06-2006, 6:07pm
I think the music on that CD is outstanding. About Ricky as a person, well, the times I have met him..., let's just say I would rather spend time with almost anyone else.
Tony

Scotti Adams
Mar-06-2006, 6:15pm
...you have only touched upon what Ricky has done...personally I think his new stuff doesnt hold a candle to his older stuff...I loved his mando playing back in the 70's and 80's....now its just too predictable.

Mike Bunting
Mar-06-2006, 6:25pm
I was a big fan of Boone Creek, the album with Keith Whitley, the album with Ralph Stanley, and the New South albums though he was pretty condescending to the audience on the Live in Japan LP (remember them?). The Skaggs/Rice duets were great. I just found that the return to bluegrass work has been too showoffy for me.

Mountain Air Mando
Mar-06-2006, 6:26pm
I like alot of Ricky's music. I have the utmost respect for his musicianship. But, I gotta say that IMO, he plays alot of stuff too fast. It certainly gets an audience response, but sometimes to the detriment of the music. JMO for what it's worth.

Nolan
Mar-06-2006, 7:16pm
He's a great mandolin player, has a good ear for music and seems to be a good business man.
His intro on Mississippi Queen from his Boone Creek days is awesome. #

I had to laugh a few weekends ago when a member of our local bluegrass police squad told me while Mountain Heart was on stage "This aint Bluegrass! #This is Ricky Skaggs music!" #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I guess he was right, Ricky Skaggs has created his own brand of "bluegrass"...
I like it though. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

ronlane3
Mar-06-2006, 7:28pm
Kentucky Thunder, excellent, argueably the best in the business. Ricky the musician, very talented and was worth what I paid to see him (read nothing).

I like a lot of Ricky's music, but was not impressed with Brand New Strings.

JEStanek
Mar-06-2006, 7:39pm
I hardly listen to my copy of Brand New Strings. #I prefer Ancient Tones. #I also feel that the three pickers is excellent. #The gabby part I can skip but those three players (Skaggs, Doc Watson, and Earl Scruggs) play _really_ well together. #The DVD is great too. #I can't offer much of an opinion on stuff older than Ancient Tones.

Jamie

GTison
Mar-06-2006, 7:39pm
Frau Blücher. [horses whinny] ... (Young Frankenstein)

"Ricky Scaggs." [certain cafe members whinny]

JimRichter
Mar-06-2006, 7:58pm
There was a time long ago when I couldn't get enough Skaggs. #I loved Boone Creek and his tenure w/ New South (I still think both are in the top 100 essential bluegrass albums of all time--probably w/ the New South album being in the top 50). #Loved his tenure w/ Dr. Ralph. #Not so keen on the brother duets with Rice. #But, his first three country albums were three of my favorite albums throughout the 80's. #I wore out my VHS video of Skaggs Live in London. #

Now, I can do without Skaggs. #I still buy each of his albums when they come out, because I'm still a fan of sorts. #Frankly, I think I preferred Brand New Strings to Ancient Tones or Bluegrass Rules. #At least Brand New Strings wasn't cookie-cutter classic bluegrass. #I prefer traditional bluegrass, but I feel that Skaggs uses a very worn formula in his approach to traditional bluegrass and I get bored easily. #The saving grace for Bluegrass Rules was Bryan Sutton and for all the albums is Jim Mills, truly one of the best trad. 3 finger banjoists today.

His music today is a little "show-offey," but he also had that streak in the past. #I know something like Brand New Strings really is meant to be a cross-over country album and has a lot of the trappings (such as a really polished sound) of mainstream country, but at least it's a style of bluegrass that Skaggs can call his own. #And I agree with Scotti, Skaggs mandolin playing has become predictable too, as he considers himself a torch-bearer for the Monroe style, but unfortunately, I don't think Skaggs is all that powerful a Monroe stylist due to mainly to his predictability. #I'd rather listen to his mandolin picking on the original One Way Track, which was pretty exciting stuff.

Jim

Scotti Adams
Mar-06-2006, 8:49pm
....Skaggs was the man back in the 70's and 80's....he was doing stuff on the mando that one had never heard before...jazzy, full of sencompation(spelling :0))....I hear alot of his fiddle licks back then in his playing...and his fiddle playing was scandilous back then. I even liked his singing better back then. The tenor and high baritone on Sparks Lp "You Could Have Called" Lp is priceless. Anyone wanting to learn the part should have that record.

J. Mark Lane
Mar-06-2006, 8:56pm
Oh, boy! A Ricky Skaggs thread!

Let's see...popcorn...beer...I'm all set! Let 'er rip, as Moose would say.

(P.S. ...I heard Ricky and Norman Blake were co-hosting a new talk show...anyone else hear that?)

Brady Smith
Mar-06-2006, 9:27pm
News to me....I didn't know he had done any albums since the 80's.

metalmandolin
Mar-06-2006, 9:54pm
Ricky doesn't really sound like Monroe...the tone is not there. He sounds like Ricky trying to be Monroe. In the '70s, he was a brash, bold innovator. Remember the Django "quotes" in Boone Creek's "Sally Goodin"?
I don't know where his mind changed, but I have observed that Monroe style people have just always been that. He decided to become that later in musical life, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, there were quotes of Monroe's style in Boone Creek, but he wasn't trying to BE Bill. The younger generation may buy it, but I'm not. It won't hurt his paycheck any.

DryBones
Mar-06-2006, 10:23pm
how about the Skaggs and Rice album? 1 of my favorites...maybe it's the Rice. History of the Future and Ancient Tones are nice also...

John M. Riley
Mar-07-2006, 12:48am
I think that Ricky's stuff with Ralph was his best stuff ever. I think Ralph kept him in his place on the mandolin. Ralph would never let anyone go too far from the melody....except Curly Ray Cline with some of his hot fiddle licks!!

telepbrman
Mar-07-2006, 2:13am
Skaggs/Rice works, that Gospel Ralph/Skaggs/Whitley live disc is cool, Compton should have played Monroe's Mando instead of Skaggs, and Norman should have been on the three pickers instead of Skaggs...dy.

swampstomper
Mar-07-2006, 2:16am
OK, here we go again... Ricky is undoubtably a tremendous technical musician and a very, very good businessman. But...

First, he does not have a lead voice, pure and simple. He can sing any harmony but to really lead a song... he can't come close to real voices like Larry Sparks, Dave Evans, Bobby Osborne, James King, Dudley Connell, Jesse McReynolds, Lester Flatt etc. etc. i.e. musicians with a real voice of their own.

Second, he definitely plays too fast and too showy. The aim is to connect with the audience... even if your connection is WSM-style, it's still audience-directed. I get the feeling he's playing for himself, to impress himself, not to make music for us. Compare that with Paul Brewster of his band. Now there's a tasteful musician (not to mention a great voice!).

Third, this "chanelling WSM" stuff may be good for business but is, to me, pretty distasteful.

Having said all that, I agree with the previous posters that when he was complementing Ralph's sound, when he was introducing jazz into Boone Creek and New South, then we really were hearing something new. He should have stayed as a "super sideman", under the control of a wise leader like Crowe or Dr Ralph.

But hey, it's a free country and he's a lot better than the hat acts on CMT. So...

Moose, is that enough ranting for you???

sachmo
Mar-07-2006, 3:00am
I was Ricky and Ky Thunder a while ago in Bristol TN. I thought his timing was, and I'll be polite.................awful. I mean speeding up, slowing down thank god his band was great. Apart from his band I don't think i'd do it again.

buddyellis
Mar-07-2006, 9:19am
Wasn't impressed with BNS at first. It grows on you, though. There's some pretty cool tunes on there, IMO. Personally I like the fast stuff -- it's pretty much what 'Kentucky Thunder' implies. Some of the instrumentals are repetative on BNS, thematically.

tree
Mar-07-2006, 9:32am
Boston Boy, off Ancient Tones, is a fair piece of mando work. #His mando intro to Walls of Time, and his choice of John Cowan as a vocal partner on that song, Stuart Duncan's fiddling, and Bryan Sutton's guitar break, that just hits me right in the gut (which I'm pretty sure is what he was aiming for). #

J. Mark Lane . . . I'm waitin' for the punch line on the Blake/Skaggs teaser. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #(P.S. Nice little ball game in Durham on Saturday night.)

J. Mark Lane
Mar-07-2006, 9:37am
J. Mark Lane . . . I'm waitin' for the punch line on the Blake/Skaggs teaser. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #(P.S. Nice little ball game in Durham on Saturday night.)
Ha! Go Heels!

No punch line...it was just an oblique reference to another thread...and the considerable differences between Mr. Skaggs and Mr. Blake, on certain levels. We shouldn't go there. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

metalmandolin
Mar-07-2006, 9:47am
Skaggs' version of Walls Of Time was an uncanny copy of Peter Rowan's version from the early 1980's...guess who sang tenor on Rowan's version? It bugs me to see so much of his music credited as a "new" thing, when it is really re-hashing of old ideas. I miss Boone Creek, and his exemplary work, though short-lived, with the Country Gentlemen is worth mentioning.

AlanN
Mar-07-2006, 9:49am
Frau Blücher. [horses whinny] ... # # #(Young Frankenstein)

"Ricky Scaggs." #[certain cafe members whinny]
Too wise.

mandopete
Mar-07-2006, 9:52am
I liked him better when he was playing the cowbell!

Kevin Briggs
Mar-07-2006, 9:55am
Just saw Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder and Mountian Heart in Lancaster, PA Sunday night. They were very good. They played a set that was almost identical to Gettysburg, especially in the first few songs. I think "Black Eyed Suzie" is losing its oomph.

Mountain Heart was pretty killer. That set closer "Lee Highway Blues" was very climactic.

I enjoy Skaggs because I don't think he's doing anything outrageous, and I can learn some good mandolin licks from his playing. I've learned a lot of basics from him, and then some. I'm not familiar with the earlier stuff he did, but I will check it out.

I was parked in after the gig, so I had to wait a while until I could get out. I walked back into the theater and met Pete Brewster and Jim Mills. I met Pete, who was nice. I walked back out to my car and saw some people huddled around Skaggs, so I drove over and thanked him and shook hands. He was ready to get out of there, but thanked me for thanking him.

Andy Leftwich did a "Minor Swing" spot during the gig, and Skaggs hung in there with some good licks. I was impressed with his ability to change it up. It was a pretty clean and seamless version of the song, but was well done nonetheless. I just kept thinking about DGQs version.

Anyway, there's not much raw energy and spirit going on at the Skaggs shows, but the technical sohpistocation more than makes up for it.

Bluegrass Boy
Mar-07-2006, 10:32am
I guess I'm lucky to be innocent enough to just appreciate Ricky's singing, playing, and band leading. 'Course, I don't know enough to hate Gibson either. Maybe some day I'll learn.

pettyman
Mar-07-2006, 10:37am
With ya there!

Didn't realise what a can of worms I was opening!

But hey - good to see people are passionate about their music!!

Moose
Mar-07-2006, 10:58am
Hey, Matt!! - See!!?? - what'd I tell ya' - the abortion "issue"..., Iraq "conflict"..., and we "lucky few" have RICKY SCAGGS. ...sure keeps this CAFE interesting. Hey J. Mark!...remember that "thread 'bout....!??" Oh, ya'.., way back... - Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif

JimRichter
Mar-07-2006, 11:54am
Really, I don't think any can of worms has been opened here. I think most are favorable toward Skaggs music, even if he isn't number one to them as a person or musician. This hasn't become some big Skaggs vs. "?" (insert your favorite Monroe style mandolinist) controversy.

If you ask a question, "what do you think about. . .?" , you're going to get varying reviews.

Part of any controversy resulting from a discussion on Skaggs has to do with how vocal Ricky is about his place in bluegrass music (and he does see himself as the torch-bearer for WSM and bluegrass) and his religious beliefs (which he evangelizes at his shows). Given how vocal he is, it's hard not to react either favorably or negatively toward him.

That said, Skaggs is a consummate musician and has a lot of appeal. Not my cup of tea anymore, but I understand why he appeals to many (cause he was also the end all be all for me at one time).

Jim

CAS
Mar-07-2006, 12:20pm
Why does Ricky always hold a gibson on the front of his cd's, but he always thanks Steve Gilchrist in his endorsments?

AW Meyer
Mar-07-2006, 12:25pm
I received a copy of a Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder album last year some time. It was a live album (Can't recall the title). While the music was high octane and dazzling, I absolutely could not stand Ricky's between-song patter. I found it so annoying that I wouldn't play the album anymore.

J. Mark Lane
Mar-07-2006, 12:26pm
Jim, you ignorant slut. #

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It's not that Ricky is "vocal." #That's not the issue. #Lots of artists are vocal about their beliefs, without systematically offending and alienating thousands of people. #Think of Doyle Lawson, for example. #He always does a few gospel numbers, and talks about his religious beliefs during shows. #But it's never offensive. #

I think what tends to upset people about Ricky is the "tone" of how he does it. #The word "sanctimonious" comes to mind....

Moose
Mar-07-2006, 12:36pm
Yeah!! Yeah!!! - that's the word I been' try'n to think of! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

JEStanek
Mar-07-2006, 12:43pm
The Live in Charelston CD may be what Mr. Eh is referring to. The music is good but the between bits turns me off a hair. I still like to hear him play.

Jamie

Bradley
Mar-07-2006, 2:15pm
I wanted to drop in my .02 cents worth.

I will start off by saying that I am a huge Skaggs fan and have been since the late 70's and early 80's.I actually still throw in the country projects from time to time and listen to them as I consider them more "country" than some of the newer Bluegrass.He did us all some great music during his Country tenure and has done some great stuff in the last 10 years. I personally will say that BNS was probably my least favorite of all of the previous recordings. There was just very little soul to any of the songs, and it was just too commercial sounding for my ear.

I have had the pleasure of meeting RS several times, and everytime he has been very pleasant, and always seems to take the time for his Fans, which I have always admired.

As far as the torch carrying label goes....I have never heard Ricky refer to himself as the "lone-torchbearer" for Bluegrass music,but rather talk about how Monroe had influenced him. He also goes as far as mentioning Monroes fears that Bluegrass would fade, and that he had promised WSM that he would play the music. Too many times the "Ricky haters" try to mis-label the whole spirit of this topic into something it is not. On the flip-side of that topic lets look at it and ask ourselves what would have happenned if Ricky were not there? No other artists were in the position from a business standpoint to make the connections to promote bluegrass the way that Ricky has. I dont mean that he is "the best", or even the most capable...just that he had the connections that it took to be in that position, both in Nashville and abroad.

And finally, as far as his stage presence....lets just say that the brother needs some new lines and jokes.

Nolan
Mar-07-2006, 2:29pm
Good post Bradley.

Darryl Wolfe
Mar-07-2006, 2:38pm
I've known Ricky personally for many years and our bands have played many shows together. I happen to like his music and I like the person much more now than in the distant past (during the Boone Creek era for example). I can agree with comments about his "lead singing" and his rambling on stage. What has not been said is that he is fiercely competitive. With that in mind I think some of his directions and motivations may be more clearly understood.

He certainly defined a mandolin style during that period and that style has influenced some of the greats of today.

And, he can assuredly sing harmony to anything and was touted by Chet Atkins or someone like that as having the most perfect pitch he had ever heard.

tiltman
Mar-07-2006, 3:01pm
I like Ricky Skaggs' music (have several of his recent bluegrass albums) and I think that he is a VERY talented mandolin player.

That said, I do not at all understand his style being called Monroe-style or him being the "torch bearer" for Monroe, etc. His playing (to my ears) is far too clean, polished, and lacking in the strength, passion, and unpredictability that I hear in Bill Monroe's playing. Again, Mr. Skaggs is very good but I would put him in with the super-fast, super-"notey" modern mandolin players.

I feel like the kid in the fable about the emperor with new clothes (who was walking around naked). I listen to Ricky Skaggs BUT I DO NOT HEAR BILL MONROE in his playing.

my .02...
Kirk

mandopete
Mar-07-2006, 6:24pm
What has not been said is that he is fiercely competitive. With that in mind I think some of his directions and motivations may be more clearly understood.
Unlike Bill Monroe, eh?

<grins>

evanreilly
Mar-08-2006, 12:04am
I have listened to Skaggs for a long time, starting with his playing with Ralph (and I scournged around for a long time trying to find tapes of him playing as a CMB).
His mandolin playing was always interesting.
Now, I listen to him doing an almost note-for-note Monroe break, and wonder what is missing???
It is the melody and licks from Bill, but.....
it is like.... missing the unknown Monroe factor... It is just not in his playing.
And even if he has a July 9th, 1923 mandolin, he will never sound like Monroe!! Not in my book!!!

Clyde Clevenger
Mar-08-2006, 2:43am
I like Ricky's music, okay with me if it's not perfect. Heck, it's okay with me if he isn't perfect, he's probably not coming over to the house for beer and ribs.

Tom Gibson
Mar-08-2006, 3:01am
J. Mark, that's funny to me, because I don't mind Skaggs, but the word "sanctimonious" does come to mind when I read the Norman Blake lyrics on the other thread (which I'm not implying you endorsed, by the way). I guess if you agree with the message it's easier to take.

For the most part, though, my favorite stance was Elvis, who declined to respond to a reporter's question about Vietnam by saying "I'm just an entertainer, ma'am." Would that there were more like that.

As for Ricky, I think the question of whether or not he's carrying on Bill Monroe's legacy is all relative. He is if you're measuring him against today's Nashville (Rascall Flatts, Kenny Chesney), maybe not compared to some others.

swampstomper
Mar-08-2006, 4:28am
When Muhammud Ali was asked about Vietnam, he didn't cop out. He said "no Vietcong ever called me n*gg*r". Sorry to get off thread but that provoked me. Entertainers are public figures and as such do have influence, there's no denying that.

But back to Ricky... no politics here... it's the way he Testifies that rubs some people the wrong way. Agree totally about Doyle and the boys. They clearly say on stage "we believe what we sing and we try to live our religion" but they do it in a matter-of-fact way, not to rub people's noses in it.

J. Mark Lane
Mar-08-2006, 4:40am
J. Mark, that's funny to me, because I don't mind Skaggs, but the word "sanctimonious" does come to mind when I read the Norman Blake lyrics on the other thread (which I'm not implying you endorsed, by the way). #I guess if you agree with the message it's easier to take.
Interesting comment, Tom. Something to think about.

Most of the time, I tend to prefer the "Elvis approach" myself. And it certainly seems wise for an artist to maintain as much neutrality as possible on controversial issues. But somehow, now and then, I find even unabashed political expression appealing in an artist, and I guess it probably boils down to my basic agreement with what is being said.

All of which points back to that old rule about cocktail parties and Internet discussion boards -- avoid politics, religion and Gibson.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

bluegrassjack2
Mar-08-2006, 8:04am
I saw Skaggs at the Cherokee BG festival couple years ago. He came on stage and took about 20 min setting up all the sound eq etc and I got so mad I almost left. Then when he started playing, I was just amazed at the ability of not only him but his whole band, Kentucky Thunder. That Jim Mills is amazing, but so is Ricky's mandolin playing.
I guess my biggest beef with him now is that he dont make himself available to the crowd very easy after his shows at BG festivals.

Kevin Briggs
Mar-08-2006, 8:47am
He was definitely trying to "get out" of Lancaster without much fan interaction. Only three or four people were waiting for a picture, but he spent about two minutes posing and signing things, then he was gone. Still, I can't fault a person for not wanting to go through that sometimes nauseating process.

I also wanted Skaggs to stop talking so much the two times I saw him play. I didn't care about his mama's fried chicken jokes or his testifying to Jesus, I just wanted to hear music. The ticket was $60.

AlanN
Mar-08-2006, 8:53am
The gab has been in that boy from the get go. I have a 1977 show called Manzanita Band, and he chatters on and on, even back then.

Kbone
Mar-08-2006, 9:07am
I liked KT first two CD's, after that not too impressed, also the Rice/Skaggs is a classic.

red7flag
Mar-08-2006, 9:24am
The times I have either seen Ricky on stage or in person two letters blare out at you ME. #Even when doing testimonials, it seems more about him than HIM. #(Here comes blasphemy) Bill had some weird quirks, but man, there was something genuine about him, love him or leave him. #But, for some reason, Ricky, for all his talent, comes across something less than genuine. #There was one time he was sharing the stage with Sam Bush, Bela, Mark Shatz and Bryan Sutton (when he was still with Kentucky Thunder). Ricky took over the stage and ran rough shod over those other guys. #Almost every song was a Kentucky Thunder song and all the talk was by Ricky about Ricky. #That was one situation where the ME mentality really took away from what could have been an awsome show. #Well that is my opinion. #Most of the people around me in the audience were saying the same thing.
Tony

carleshicks
Mar-08-2006, 9:30am
Come on let's stop bashing Ricky. He is a great muscian, a God fearing man, and a great entertainer. Every one has a right to their opinion, but when you start bad mouthing his character that's too much. If you don't care for his music or his style that's fine.

Tim
Mar-08-2006, 9:57am
In general, I'd argue that the any public figure's character is open for critique, especially when they make it part of their public "persona" (i.e. on stage).

Big Joe
Mar-08-2006, 10:04am
Ricky is an incredible musician. He is also a friend. I have no problem with his expression of views on stage. The Dixie Chicks expressed their right, and while I vehemently disagree with their point, they did have that option. I guess Ricky can express his views. I don't think Ricky tries to be inaccessible, but he is very shy and is not terribly comfortable around people he does not know. I don't find that strange at all. I've never met a stranger, but most people aren't like me (oh...sorry, too much about me http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ).

mandopete
Mar-08-2006, 10:47am
Come on let's stop bashing Ricky.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion (as long as we follow the Cafe rules).

Kevin Briggs
Mar-08-2006, 10:47am
I agree that Ricky is obviosuly a "good" person. Maybe the perception of his egotism is just a result of a shy guy busting out on stage.

When it comes down to it, Ricky's product is slick mandolin playing witha n unqeustionably smoking band. It also involves some mam's boy old time religion stuff. Heck, it's his show. I think he knows his product sells, and it's a comfort zone for him, so he goes with it. I mean, he can't possibly love to talk about that same stuff year in and year out at every show. It's part of the act. I'm sure he wouldn't tellyou fried chicken jokes and stories about his mama if you were just a friend and were hanging out with him.

That being said, I've learned a lot of mandolin from Ricky and I appreciate his stripped down playing. I may not drive a long distance to see his band play, but I'd buy a ticket if they were in my town, like they were Sunday night.

Kevin Briggs
Mar-08-2006, 10:49am
I'll add that if someone said to me, "Hey, you can play mandolin pretty good. Just go up and hang with an awesome band and tell jokes about your mama, your God, and your favorite food and we'll take care of the rest," I'd probably do a Forest Gump and say..."O-kay."

Unless it was Country Music....

Darren Kern
Mar-08-2006, 11:13am
I bought Brand New Strings because of Sis Draper. I like that song, and probably 3 others but I could do without the rest. Ricky is very talented, and I'm a huge fan of Andy Leftwich and Cody Kilby, but as far as the band goes, there are a whole lot of groups that I would rather listen to. I did see them on their Grand Ole Opry tour last year, and they were pretty good I must admit. However I still can't figure out what the heck Patty Loveless is doing at a bluegrass show. She was on stage for an hour, and Del & the boys, and Old Crow Medicine Show only got 3 or 4 songs. Country singers should stick with country, in my opinion.

FlawLaw
Mar-08-2006, 12:01pm
However I still can't figure out what the heck Patty Loveless is doing at a bluegrass show. #She was on stage for an hour, and Del & the boys, and Old Crow Medicine Show only got 3 or 4 songs. #Country singers should stick with country, in my opinion.
Patty Loveless is suppose to be a big fan of bluegrass from what I hear and sings a few real good bluegrass tunes herself. #It doesn't bother me when country singers try their hand at bluegrass. I think Dolly Parton has made some really great bluegrass music. It is too bad though when one musician takes up all the time.

Back to Mr. Skaggs...I think asking such a general question is going to lead to varied responses, but it kind of reminds me of when I use to work with junior high students at a large church in New York City, they would always ask such questions: "What do you think of the Bible?" #Well, I like it? Not to comdemn the question be asked, in fact, ultimately it has lead to a lengthy discussion with passionate and interesting comments.

In any case, I think Mr. Skaggs has been consistently good for many years. #I personally agree with the comment that some of his best stuff was back with New South when he was a sideman fiddler and mandolinist surrounded by other great musicians. Sadly, I have never been to a concert, so I can't comment on his tendency to gab. #I did see the Three Pickers DVD and noted that he and Mr. Scruggs both seemed to like to talk, but it didn't particularly bother me and I left being most impressed with Doc Watson anyway.

On Sunday, I will celebrate ten years as a pastor at the same church. #I feel it has been an accomplishment as two of the three pastor's before me were driven off after serving the church for less than a year. Early on, I was told by another wiser preacher that I should always remember to practice what I preach, think three times before I speak, and never criticize another for things that you yourself may do. #That being said, I can say that I like Mr. Skaggs as a musician and find any faults that he may have as a talkative, over zealous individual to be faults that I share with him.

In the end, I can never truly fault a person for putting their beliefs out there, whether they be their religious or political beliefs because those beliefs are what define a person and such outspokeness can be be rather daring for a musician who relies on record sales, as it can lead to people not buying records. I think that it is as admirable that Mr. Skaggs is deeply concerned about his evangelical faith as it is that Mr. Norman is deeply convicted in his anti-war stance. #I guess, at times I wish that I was as convicted.

Bluegrass Boy
Mar-08-2006, 12:08pm
Well, I hate being convicted, but that's just me (sorry pastor Will, I just couldn't help myself). On another note, isn't bluegrass country? You think most of these country singers didn't grow up on Bill Monroe? Someone can certainly define theirself by only one thing, one style of music, but why?

FlawLaw
Mar-08-2006, 12:17pm
Good one Bluegrass Boy! (Of course, I was using the term in the Reverend Charles Finney sense - another preacher who was also a preacher):) #

I will agree with you about music. #This morning I was listening to a Norman Blake, Matisyahu, Wayne Shorter, and Shostakowich. #Love music.

Darren Kern
Mar-08-2006, 1:43pm
Will, you make some good points. I personally think there is a line that can be crossed when celebrities- musicians on stage, or especially actors at the Oscars or other award shows- abuse the medium they have been given to express their views, political, religious or other. I don't think Ricky crosses the line, even if some people consider him wordy... he's never been in poor taste when I've seen/heard him. An example of someone who does is Steve Earle, if anyone has ever seen him in concert, you know what I mean. He's one of my favorites but I don't care to go see him because of that. Bluegrass Boy, I think modern country has more in common with rap than it does bluegrass, but old school country does share some roots with bluegrass of course.

Tim
Mar-08-2006, 2:18pm
However I still can't figure out what the heck Patty Loveless is doing at a bluegrass show. #She was on stage for an hour, and Del & the boys, and Old Crow Medicine Show only got 3 or 4 songs. #Country singers should stick with country, in my opinion.
Country and bluegrass are musical genres. #People can listen to and/or perform in one or both and no one should have to stick to one. #If Patty Loveless performed her bluegrass songs (the Mountain Soul CD) a bluegrass show/festival is entirely appropriate. #As to how much time each performer spent on stage, that is an issue for the promoter. #At the bluegrass festivals where I've seen her scheduled, she gets longer because she only does one set where the others do two or more throughout the day.

pickinNgrinnin
Mar-08-2006, 2:43pm
Three topics guaranteed to generate a cafe discussion:

1. Ricky Skaggs
2. Nickel Creek - are they Bluegrass?
3. Gibson - anything

If Ricky is still playing by the time he reaches his 70's and 80's, like Monroe did, I'd guess the Skaggs bashers will come around and see him in a different light.

Everyone has their faults. In regard to musicians, I can overlook quite a few of their faults if the music is good.

Moose
Mar-08-2006, 2:53pm
YUP!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

FlawLaw
Mar-08-2006, 3:16pm
Will, you make some good points. #I personally think there is a line that can be crossed when celebrities- musicians on stage, or especially actors at the Oscars or other award shows- abuse the medium they have been given to express their views, political, religious or other. #I don't think Ricky crosses the line, even if some people consider him wordy... he's never been in poor taste when I've seen/heard him. #An example of someone who does is Steve Earle, if anyone has ever seen him in concert, you know what I mean. #He's one of my favorites but I don't care to go see him because of that. #
Yes, I can understand your point. (And I too like some of Steve Earle's music). #I think that passionate views can be taken even with taste and decorum. #I gag at people, even when I agree with them, when their passion leads them to point at everyone but themselves and seem wildly hypocritical. #For instance, saying something like, "You wealthy Americans need to pay more attention to the poor" when the person speaking is also a wealthy American who has done nothing more for the poor than saying "You wealthy Americans need to pay more attention to the poor." #I think, for instance, Reese Witherspoon spoke very elegantly at the Oscars during her acceptance speech when she quoted Mrs. Cash by saying "I'm just trying to matter." #I guess my point is that I can appreciate entertainers when they are "trying to matter." I think that Mr. Skaggs may fall into that camp.

JEStanek
Mar-08-2006, 3:36pm
This has become very interesting... I'm actually fine with people making all the outrageous statements they want in public. That's fundamentally one of the reasons we exist as the USA. I think its important to remember that while we have the right to make outrageous statements we don't have the _right_ to expect them to be recieved politely or postitively, whether you are Steve Earle, The Dixie Chicks, Ricky Skaggs, or a person on the Mandolin Cafe who posts something thorny. The market will bear you out. Or the System Admin will block you out. There are consequences. I love accountability.

That being said, Bluegrass Rules and Nickel Creek brought me to the mandolin so, sincerely, thanks so much to them. They all have my respect and occasionally, even, my money!
Jamie

bsimmers
Mar-08-2006, 3:55pm
Ricky has put out some outstanding music, country and bluegrass. But I think he tries too hard....or something. He plays a lot of stuff too fast. He tends to "overproduce" some of his stuff. Too many instruments.....like his TV Christmas special. I appreciate chamber music, and a string section, and all that. But there was just too many sections. I'd like to see him do just a 5 piece band once. As a front man.....he needs to shut up. I've seen him 4 times in the last 5 years, and he really needs to talk much less, cut back on the crowd pleasing 160 beats per minute stuff. A dose of humility might go a long way.
That said, I have everything he's recorded except Brand New Strings. My favorite stuff is anything he did with Tony Rice. Especially Sweet Georgia Brown, Darktown Strutters Ball, Nashville Skyline Rag, The Skaggs and Rice album. I loved the Gentlemen stuff...Irish Spring, etc. Skaggs is an incredibly gifted musician. I think the frustration a lot of us have is that we know Skaggs can play any music, anyway we want it played. It's just that he doesn't always choose to do it our way. He surrounds himself with tremendous musicians.
I saw Ricky in about 1984. One of the best shows I've ever seen. He was at his peak in country, but he did a lot of grass. At one point the band left the stage, and he sang Talk about Sufferin' a capella. He did very little talking, and the emphasis was on good music, and not with trying to make the crowd like him. I saw him about 5 years later and it was a dissapointment; less good music.
Just my opinion, which is like a home toilet. Everyone thinks their's is best, but they're all full of the same thing!

Darren Kern
Mar-08-2006, 4:08pm
Country and bluegrass are musical genres. #People can listen to and/or perform in one or both and no one should have to stick to one. #If Patty Loveless performed her bluegrass songs (the Mountain Soul CD) a bluegrass show/festival is entirely appropriate. #As to how much time each performer spent on stage, that is an issue for the promoter. #At the bluegrass festivals where I've seen her scheduled, she gets longer because she only does one set where the others do two or more throughout the day.
Tim, of course they can perform in any genre they like, my musical tastes are just more toward the mainstream bluegrass groups/performers versus crossover folks like Patty, Bruce Hornsby, Travis Tritt, etc. Not taking away from any of them, and I didn't mean to offend, if I did. People that went to that show to see a whole lot of Ricky and Patty, I'm sure they went home happier than the folks that came mainly to see Del. No right or wrong, just different tastes http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

steve in tampa
Mar-08-2006, 6:15pm
He needs to get one of those big ol Marty Stuart haircuts and lay off the fried food.........................................:p

Mar-08-2006, 6:33pm
i dont think ricky was in any way solely responsible for bands like mountain heart. i think alot of people contributed to that new realm of bluegrass.......
and by the way.. bluegrass is just the blues anyway... just like delta blues or chicago blues, its the blues man. thats all that matters, is the blues! they make the world go round....
but anyways, ricky is just like alot of musicians, kinda full of himself and a little too outspoken, since he is mandopicker, not politician. but the music is fantastic. i could deal without the sappy country tunes, but the music is great. good time for the whole family. ricky is a great mandolin player, he rarely plays a note i dont like. sometimes i dont dig his singing all that much due to choice of songs, but hey, that rice and skaggs album is a great example of how good ricky is.. there is just two dudes pickin and its not missing a thing. good stuff....
i could care less about his politics, so long as it doesnt interfer with the pickin tooo much... (he talks alot on stage sometimes hehe)

BruceKap
Mar-08-2006, 6:38pm
I think Ricky Skaggs is one of the best players around, and by far, the best showman performing in BG today. He always has a great band, and he can actually sing and write a good song. Love his version of Walls of Time, Rank Stranger, Get Up John and so many others.

Calling Ricky crossover is kind of besides the point. He HAS applied the highest production values to his records and shows, but without diluting the music in any way. (I would not say the same thing for Allison Krauss, who, though also very talented, sounds a little too pop for me. And I like pop, sometimes.) He is also an excellent electric guitar player, but I haven't seen him play a Telecaster in more than a decade.

Like someone else said, I'm not sure I would want to hang out with the guy, but I would buy an instructional DVD any time!

Kevin Briggs
Mar-08-2006, 8:00pm
I'll argue that seeing/hearing the Seldom Scene at Gettysburg last year was the best bluegrass performance I've seen. The guys are good pickers, and they have a heckuva good time up there. They just laugh, cut on each other, play, laugh, joke around, etc. It was loose and it was great.

Bike Mike
Mar-08-2006, 8:30pm
Alright, help a newbie out.
I read this thread with interest because I know little about Ricky Scaggs except (very) occasional brushes with him on TV.
My question is...
To get aquainted with what you good folks are talking about, please recommend your top 3 or 4 (or 5) cd's that I can aquire and get familiar with the man at his best, and doing his best... music.
Thanks to all for this great mandolin community.
Mike

JimRichter
Mar-08-2006, 9:46pm
To get aquainted with what you good folks are talking about, please recommend your top 3 or 4 (or 5) cd's that I can aquire and get familiar with the man at his best, and doing his best... music.

1) J.D. Crowe and The New South (with Skaggs, Douglas, Rice, and Sloane)--Rounder Records
2) Boone Creek: One Way Track--Sugar Hill Records (?)
3) Ralph Stanley and Keith Whitley: Second Generation (w/ Ralph Stanley)
4) Ricky Skaggs: Sweet Temptation
5) Ricky Skaggs: Live from the Charleston Music Hall

Jim

JEStanek
Mar-08-2006, 10:49pm
1) ancient tones (Ricky and KT)
2) David Grisman the Rounder Record (Ricky, Vasser Clements, Grisman)
3) Three Pickers (Earl Scruggs, Doc Watson, Ricky)
4) Live from Charleston Hall

Jamie

an uncalloused fingertip
Mar-08-2006, 11:24pm
I wonder how this thread managed to last four pages while my relatively innocent thread ("Is Chris Thile God?") was publically condemned and then locked at the fifteenth post. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

This thread goes to show that one's view of an entertainer varies greatly, depending on if you attended a show, caught the entertainer in a good or bad frame of mind, or just know him or her through a compact disk. I only know Ricky Skaggs through his music, and I like what I hear. No musicologist or bluegrass historian - just like his singing and mandolin and guitar playing. From some of the posts I've read, maybe it is good that I just continue to know him solely through his enjoyable recordings. I like much the music of Beethoven too - though his contemporaries commonly thought him a brute or outright crazy. I obviously was not old enough to attend one of his concerts, so I'll just have to refer to the music.

As for showing off, I thought that was a part of bluegrass (as well as speed metal, jazz, numerous romantic era violin concertos, baroque harpsichord pieces, and so on). If showing off is bad, then are the varieties pop music they come up with today supposed to be good? Just look at what rock and roll (and alternative music)has become. At least the bluegrass gigs still require a degree of talent and energy.

Rook Page

Bostonboypicker
Mar-08-2006, 11:34pm
http://www.mandotunes.com/YouTubeVideos/rickyskaggs.php

Speakin' of the man himself, theres a video.
In regards to his version of Boston Boy. Its good, I prefer the version with him on Fiddle for the David Grisman Rouder Album. Has more dynamics to it. As apposed to just speed pickin'.

Salty Dog
Mar-09-2006, 12:31am
My complaints about Ricky are that he apparently promised WSM that he would preserve the music. #Well folks, bluegrass as WSM did it is simple music, played fast sometimes ("folk music in overdrive"), with well defined parts. #The recent KT releases are grossly over produced with the instrumentalists stepping all over each other and usually are played at too fast a tempo. #This cacophony (sp?) of noise gave me a headache on one of his recent albums. #John Starling once called this problem "superpicker overkill". #The second part is that Ricky needs to decide whether he is selling tickets to something that resembles a Billy Graham crusade or to a musical performance. #I am a devoted Christian but there are times when I need to know beforehand whether I am paying for a sermon or music. #As pointed out above the message of Christ can be fully present without being overbearing. #The problems here seem to be ones of excesses rather than proper balance.

red7flag
Mar-09-2006, 8:48am
Salty, I guess that is what I was saying when I felt he did not come across as genuine. This is much like my reaction to most car dealers, what is he really selling? What is the real agenda? #I am sure if I knew Ricky up close the way Big Joe does, I would have a totally different reaction.
Tony

AlanN
Mar-09-2006, 8:54am
I agree with most all of the above. Yes, his KT is over produced (heck, it's a LARGE band), but OTOH, bluegrass is wide enough in scope and breadth that all bands don't have to be a quartet to work. For some stuff, simpler is better, for other stuff, a bigger sound is good. Just leave out the harmonica and spoons, if you please http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

halfamind
Mar-09-2006, 9:46am
After hearing "dude, you look like Ricky Skaggs" for the last 25 years, I'm sick of him. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mandopete
Mar-09-2006, 9:59am
I wonder how this thread managed to last four pages while my relatively innocent thread ("Is Chris Thile God?") was publically condemned and then locked at the fifteenth post.
That's a pretty provactive statement. #Looks like flame trolling to me.

As for recordings I'd recommend Bluegrass Rules and Skaggs and Rice with Tony Rice.

James P
Mar-09-2006, 10:10am
Sometimes it's nice not to know too much about some things. #Like that quote about watching the making of sausage or legislation. #Or the internal politics of the NBA, for that matter. #

I've only seen or heard Skaggs once that I know of. #It was on TV and he was tearing it up, "chicken pickin" on a Telecaster. #The guy's "got game." #That's all I need to know.

kudzugypsy
Mar-09-2006, 10:26am
yeap, sometimes it is better to just not know things about people we may be influenced by - not that i would call RS an influence, but i have swiped a lot of his licks - there is an awful lot of negitive stuff that can be said about any musician and esp. successful ones that is not too positive - like how they have delt with band members, their abuse problems, etc, etc. i think Ricky has sort of stayed out of many of these problems, and as an entertainer, he is quite good, far better than most - if he would just cut the banter down to 2-3 mins max instead of 1/2 the set.

i REALLY enjoyed the first version of KT - they had the twin fiddles then with the great bobby hicks and were just on fire - the recent version is just a lot of fluff to me - like having the guitar player up there to solo on those ridculous tempos (he's not even plugged in during the song, he has a volume pedal and the soundman punches him in and out just for the solo) - but again, there are few people who could pull that stuff off like KT, they are true professionals in every way.

fatt-dad
Mar-09-2006, 10:43am
Skaggs on the JD Crowe New South and also the Jerry Douglass Fluxology records played great!

f-d

metalmandolin
Mar-09-2006, 10:55am
I am not convinced that Monroe needed Skaggs, or any one other specific person, to "keep Bluegrass alive". Perhaps that was a true exchange between those two parties, but Bluegrass is alive and well, more because of thousands of shade tree pickers across this country and planet, as well as numerous pro and semi-pro bands that thrive today. If any one of us stopped playing, Bluegrass at large would not miss a beat.
Now, how about Skaggs singing tenor on "Little Community Church House"? That's worth talking about for sure <g>.

fatt-dad
Mar-09-2006, 12:07pm
Also, the Skaggs and Rice duets are good recordings.

f-d

bsimmers
Mar-09-2006, 12:32pm
Jim Richter,
Your recommendations for a Skaggs intro. would be mine exactly:

1) J.D. Crowe and The New South (with Skaggs, Douglas, Rice, and Sloane)--Rounder Records
2) Boone Creek: One Way Track--Sugar Hill Records (?)
3) Ralph Stanley and Keith Whitley: Second Generation (w/ Ralph Stanley)
4) Ricky Skaggs: Sweet Temptation
5) Ricky Skaggs: Live from the Charleston Music Hall
Bob

AlanN
Mar-09-2006, 12:35pm
And add in the Skaggs/Rice, that record is perfect.

mrbook
Mar-09-2006, 12:54pm
Nobody has mentioned his video of "I'm Just a Country Boy" with Bill Monroe dancing in a NYC subway. I never thought I'd see that, and I liked it. During the 80s he did a better job of injecting bluegrass into modern country music than anyone else I've seen. His stuff with J.D. Crowe and Tony Rice are as good today as when they came out 20-30 years ago.

I still think Bluegrass Rules is a great album minus the spoken comments at the beginning and end (I made a copy leaving them off). I liked Ancient Tones, but after that the music seemed to become less bluegrass and more country - I liked it better the other way around 20 years earlier. The comments on the hidden track on Live at the Charleston Music Hall didn't do much for me, either.

His first Bluegrass Rules band was great, both on record and in concert. Now it seems fast, slick, and "perfect," without the excitement I hear in the playing of many other bands. It may not be music for bluegrass fans, though, but rather for people who think every instrumental is "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" (or the theme from Bonnie and Clyde). That's where the money is.

Bike Mike
Mar-09-2006, 2:51pm
Thanks for the recommendations for specific cd's. I will bone up on the music and enjoy my ignorance of the "other" stuff.

an uncalloused fingertip
Mar-11-2006, 8:57pm
I wonder how this thread managed to last four pages while my relatively innocent thread ("Is Chris Thile God?") was publically condemned and then locked at the fifteenth post.
That's a pretty provactive statement. #Looks like flame trolling to me.

As for recordings I'd recommend Bluegrass Rules and Skaggs and Rice with Tony Rice.
Looks like "flame trolling" to you, huh? Perhaps it is time for new eyewear, or maybe a little Windex. From what I read, RS was pretty much dragged around in the mud-or at least chafed-for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the balance of the thread. I never criticized Chile Thile in the slightest, but nonetheless the thread was locked and I was judged as making cheap shops-a person of low character.

I wouldn't know about "flame trolling". The movie "Brokeback Mountain", sheep herders, cowboys ... probably listen more to bluegrass music than what I typically fumble around with and pick at. So ... you tell me.

Rook Page

SurebetVA
Mar-11-2006, 9:30pm
OK, just my opinion...not trying to throw gas on a fire.

Thile is technically great but doesn't musically move me. After listening to his recordings and seeing him in film footage I wouldn't pay to see him in person. Just my preference.

Skaggs is also great, but not my favorite picker, although some of his work has emotionally touched me, or had my toes tapping anyhow. I think any well known musican has to be guilty of shameless self promotion or they would never get ahead in that business. I just don't think Ricky does it (self promotion) as gracefully as others and its noticed. I wish he would come out from under Bill Monroe's shadow a little. I like that he pays the man respect, but I think he goes to far with it for my taste. I also wish he wouldn't wear his religion on his sleeves as much as he does - but that is his right. That said he is a lot more talented than I will ever be, I have seen him at Festivals a couple of times and I do feel I got my money's worth even though I could have done without the religion part and some of the other aspects I just mentioned. Evidently he is a good businessman and he knows what is working for him. The man has my respect but I'm not about to become a groupee.

I think the great thing about Bluegrass/Newgrass/acoustic music today is that we do have so many great artist to pick from and enjoy. I often hear about how fortunate we are to live in a time when there are so many great mandolin being built out there. I am also grateful we have so many talented people to play them for us as well. Some famous, some not so famous, and a lot in between. Some of the music I have enjoyed the most has been by amateurs or near amaturs at a jam session (or Cabin Fever). I'm going to enjoy it.

woodwiz
Mar-11-2006, 10:49pm
I'm not a Christian, just a happy agnostic, and Skaggs' "witnessing" during a performance bores me badly enough that I seldom watch him any more. It's just not appropriate in an entertainment venue. I have really loved some of the work he has done, but I agree that he seems to have gotten awfuly full of himself, and away from the music.

My closest friends are devout Christians, happy in their faith, and ready to share whenever it's appropriate, but Skaggs is over the top. The phrase "too pious to be trusted" keeps coming to mind. He's just not much fun any more.