Old Gibson A models

[johnM]

I'm wondering if having an old Gibson A-1 -- A-4 mandolin will be worth money someday. I remember the old F4's a few years ago were going for around 3K and now one's on ebay for over 8K. I'm sorry if this has been discussed but i'd like to know what you all think.

Also besides the value, how is the playability on these old things.

Hope you all can shed some light on this for me.

Thanks

john

[mandorado]

I have an old A-1 in near perfect condition. It's a great little mandolin and sounds wonderful. What will it be worth ... I have no idea. But I know I'm going to hang onto mine, it's to cool to part with.

[danb]

They're nice, inexpensive, and sound very nice. Best deals you can get $600-1000 IMO. As to value in the long term? Well, probably a slight creep up over time or held value if you don't damage it, but only the unusual ones (snakehead etc) seem to be riding the demand curve.. there are just so many A models available..

[mythicfish]

Hi John,
I've had my 1917 A4 for about 25 years. It draws a lot of attention and when folks ask what year it is I
say "It's a 1917 ... I'm the original owner." You'd be surprised at the number of people that can't "do the math"!
While it has appreciated fourfold in value over the years, it has not outperformed my other investments.
Then again, the S&P index has lousy tone and cheap tuners.

[Bob A]

They're cheaper than a new one from a recognised maker, they've got the advantage of 80 years of playing-in, the depreciation has been wrung out decades ago, you can sell one for as much as you paid, if not more, and if you pick one that sounds good to your ear it will please you as much or more in twenty years' time as it does when you first play it. As far as I'm concerned, my 1921 Gibson is as playable as any instrument I've ever owned.

It may need new frets; it may need a bit of glue once every ten-twenty years; it will give back whatever you put into it. It may not appreciate as fast as a good growth stock like Enron, but it will always keep up with inflation. It is the gold standard for American mandolins.

You want money, invest in energy. You want music, you could do worse than one of these.

[Jack Roberts]

I've mentioned this before, but. I've got a 1918 A-1 that I overpaid for. I had to have it because the sound is incredible. It is not in good, or even "fair" condition. Maybe "fair-" with a missing pick guard, a huge cigarette burn on the sound hole and worn off finish. But although I may have paid more than it's "worth", I would not trade it for a new Oval A in the same price range. In business when you pay more than the book value of the assets in order to acquire intangible benefits, it is called "good will". I gave the previous owner a bit extra cash in good will just because the sound was so good. I won't sell it.

AS for playablity, they have a wide flat fingerboard and, if origninal, skinny frets, and a non ajdustable bridge--not everyone likes that. I would like to have a radiused fingerboard and fat frets like a Sam Bush F-5, but I don't want to do any major work on an instrument that is almost 90 years old. Setup is everything for both playability and sound. They do not have truss rods, so check the trueness of the neck. Don't worry too much about how the finish looks, as if it is a good instrument, it has been played a lot and will show wear.

Don't think of buying an old A mandolin as an investment. Buy it to play. I am hoping that these don't appreciate much so that they will always be accessable to people who want to have the sound that some of these instruments are capable of.

[Bob DeVellis]

These are great instruments. I have an A-3 (1913) and an F-4 (1917) tha sound quite different form each other but both sound great in their own way. The F-4 is smokier sounding, the A-3 a bit brighter. I don't think it's overpaying to spend a bit more on an exceptionally find sounding instrument. I have a Vega that I paid above book value for because of exceptional sound and I consider it a bargain every time I pick it up. The old Gibsons are still a bargain and they won't be going down in value. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go up but that's not why I have 'em. I sold a '24 snakehead (and some other stuff) to get the F-4. I'd had the snakehead a while and made a reasonable profit. I miss the snakehead but love the F-4 and wouldn't undo things.

[Bob A]

Cigarette burn? Funny you should mention. I have a L&H model B (14") with a nasty burn on the top near the t-piece. It was, of course, the sound of the thing that made me pay full price for it. At least it didn't cost more than the average B.

My preference in fretting and board tends to be toward the original setup. It is what I've grown used to over the years, and it just feels right. I have a mandola that was refretted with wide frets, and it just seems odd somehow. Plays fine, of course, but . . .

[Dan Adams]

I have a 1916 A-Model and a 1917 A-Model that looks like it came off the factory floor. Considering they both sold for somewhee around $39.00 new, and seeing what they sell for now, they've increased considerably in value. One I've owned for 15 years and the other I've owned for a couple of years, and I paid nowhere near what they are selling for these days. I saw a 1918 the other day for $1,800, a few hundred steep, but somebody thinks they can get that price. Now if I can only hold on to them for thirty more years or so... Dan

[mandroid]

they are worthwhile now ! I had a plain Brown 'A' and then 'Had to get' an 'A4'. both, as it turns out, made in 1922, they compete for my attention now.
play one a lot and the other one complains. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[acousticphd]

Here is an ad I keep taped to my case. #I sent a check to the address shown, and am eagerly awaiting shipment and playing the day's popular music:

[johnM]

Just a note, I got to play a '20s A1 the other in Surgoingsville TN and it was fantastic. If they all sound like that sign me up............

jm

[Kodiak]

I have a very, very nice sounding 1920 A-2. There will always be speculators pushing the pricing edge on Ebay and such. #Most As are 80 or so year old instruments that have had the luxury of extended time to settle in. For some that means a great sound. For others that means structural issues. Many of the As I've seen have top sinkage due to braces that have come unglued or show other symptoms of old age. I'd be very careful to throughly check out an older A before purchasing. Although most I've played sound wonderful, many I've seen are on the brink of needing major work to keep them in playing condition.

[fatt-dad]

Although most I've played sound wonderful, many I've seen are on the brink of needing major work to keep them in playing condition.
When I bought my 1920 A-3 in 1985, it had been stored in the attic of a retired preacher's house in Blacksburg, VA. Yeah, I got a good price, but the back seam by the tailpiece had been unglued (the strings were tight when it went up to the attic) and the back had also come unglued from the sides toward the neck block. The neck was somewhat bowed, also. I immediately had it repaired and it played great! 20 years later, I had to also get the top brace reglued.

I'm not complaining, but I figure if you are going to own/play one of these old instruments, it's likely that there will be times in the former life where storage may not have been perfect and times in the future life where you will have to address these items. So, if you plan on owing an old Gibson mandolin, make sure that you have a luthier to turn to. . . . Then again, you can also buy a new mandolin, not have the mojo factor, but be more likely to leave the need for a good luthier to the next generation.

f-d

[LKN2MYIS]

I bought a 1916 Gibson Model "A" in 1976 from Mandolin Brothers. Cost me $400, lots of money back then.

I had them sell it for me about 4 years ago. My profit was
about $1400. Plus I had it to play for about 25 years.


Don't know how this would work out inflation, etc. - wise over the years, but I certainly feel like I won!

[Darryl Wolfe]

I bought this Tuesday. #I thought it was a really good deal, even thought a well known dealer had it. #1910 H-1 Mandola

[Jack Roberts]

Darryl, that is a beautiful instrument. Could I ask: What is the top wood? How does the C string sound when fretted (and when open, for that matter), what is the scale length, and what strings are you using (or going to use) on it?

Jack

[Darryl Wolfe]

The top is one-piece spruce. #The instrument is professionally refinished, but not in a very original looking manner. #It currently has mandolin strings on it, as I have yet to set it up they way it should be. I think it is 15" scale and am investigating what gage strings to put on it.

[Jack Roberts]

Do people think re-finishing adds to the value? I want my old mandolins to look...I dunno..."old" maybe?

'Dola envy anyway.

Jack

[BBarton]

I think refinishing reduces value on vintage instruments, as it does with most antiques. #I've had A-1, A-3, 2 A-4s, F-2 and F-4 in the past (wish I still had 'em all!), but my present '20 A-4 smokes all of the others hands down (and a '15 A-4 was a complete dud musically). #So, yes, they're all different IMHO.

[Jack Roberts]

Bruce, I agree. I have tried several 'teen and pre'teen gibsons, some in very nice condition. But I never thought I would buy one. Until I played one in particular. It would be great if it were in better condition, but someone else pointed out that the ones in good condition didn't get played much, and the ones in bad condition got played a lot. The better sounding ones got more play.

I wish I knew who owned and played my A-1 over the past 88 years--and if they still have the pick-guard!

[Dan Adams]

The 1918 I saw for sale seemed to be refinished, the finish was way too high glossed to be original. I asked, but the GC salesman had no idea. My 'off the factory floor' 1917 is no where near than shiny! I agree, the refinish would diminish the value of the original. Just my opinion! Dan

[BBarton]

If I recall correctly, I think Norman Blake once said that about 1 in 10 is a good 'un. Anyone else recall that?

[Darryl Wolfe]

I have not rearched this to the "nines", #but there appears to be considerable variance in the inside carving of the top. #If you can picture the outside profile being carved consistently and then the inside carving being a consistent shape, but very inconsistent depth (like a drill press depth stop) I think you end up with what is driving the majority of variance in the A's. #Combine this with vast difference in the quality of the spruce tone wood, you arrive at the current subject at hand. #

I recently inspected two 20's snakes. #One was lacking, the other exceptional. #The "dud" as referred to above had no carving applied to a wide area aroundthe entire perimeter of the top. #The inside carving pattern should have gone deeper, which would have made it larger in diameter, #thus thinning down the recurve area substantially. #If you are with my description here, the flat surface that glues to the rim was over 2 inches wide simply because the pattern was not applied deep enough.

This, along with failed glue joints for the brace may account for the wide variance in stability of the top. #If they could get it too thick, they could likely get it too thin also.

[mandolooter]

Daryll, very good points tho...I still remember one (A4, year unknown) I played at Weiser 2 years ago, that just blew me away...I had to get up and then track it down one morning. I think my 06 might compare, but the instrument in question isn't around now...maybe I'll know in June when Weiser rolls around again. I hope it come back by.

[jim simpson]

"I recently inspected two 20's snakes. One was lacking, the other exceptional. The "dud" as referred to above had no carving applied to a wide area aroundthe entire perimeter of the top. The inside carving pattern should have gone deeper, which would have made it larger in diameter, thus thinning down the recurve area substantially. If you are with my description here, the flat surface that glues to the rim was over 2 inches wide simply because the pattern was not applied deep enough." - Daryl G. Wolfe

It's funny, but I had a similar experience at a shop with 2 snakes - one good, the other a dud. Wouldn't you know that the best looking one was the dud!
Jim

[John Rosett]

i love my '13 A, but i have a question: on the label it says "should this instrument, with proper care and useage, go wrong, we agree to repair it free of charge at our factory, or to replace it with another of same style or value."
i've always wondered how binding that warranty is, since it says nothing about time limit or ownership. maybe i can get gibson to replace the tuner when they wear out........

[Mark Walker]

Cigarette burn? Funny you should mention. I have a L&H model B (14") with a nasty burn on the top near the t-piece...

I digress a bit, but WHAT picker in their right minds would be using a fine instrument as an ashtray? # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Ken Sager]

Cigarette burn? Funny you should mention. I have a L&H model B (14") with a nasty burn on the top near the t-piece...

I digress a bit, but WHAT picker in their right minds would be using a fine instrument as an ashtray? # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
People do questionable things, but that one had to be an angry wife, girlfriend, husband, boyfriend, or mob boss.