View Full Version : Vintage Gibson Shot of the Day (or week)
Here's a recent close up of a Torch & Wire F4
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/10926_torch4.jpg
Another shot
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/10926_torch1.jpg
Here's F4 # 13092 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2671), a very late 3-pointer.
The back on this one is off the scale:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/13092_back.jpg
Double Flowerpot on the peghead too, only one I know of on a three pointer:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/13092_peghead2.jpg
Deep carving in the scroll
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/13092_scroll.jpg
Two pickguard clamps
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/13092_side_clamps.jpg
And just a beauty overall..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/13092_front.jpg
A2z #74106 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?1522)
Here's a nice macro of the black/white binding that is (largely) unique to this model:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/74106_binding.jpg
7 rings round the soundhole..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/74106_soundhole.jpg
mandopete
Apr-08-2005, 1:36pm
Dan,
These photo's are off the scale!
A4 #73626 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2669)
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/73656_front.jpg
Thanks Pete, I've been practicing http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/73656_face.jpg
Unusually early tuning pegs for a snake, normally they are the arrow-end type! Compare my brown snake,
A #71261 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_image.pl?4552) which also has the same smoother peghead profile
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/73656_tuners.jpg
I kinda like that deep carving around the scroll. I hadn't noticed that before, so I went back and looked through the archive. I found this one that I thought had a very interesting scroll carving...Late 3pt F2 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_image.pl?2325). Amazing artistry!
Paul Doubek
mandoryan
Apr-08-2005, 2:02pm
Is that a replacement fingerboard for 73626 A4? Sure looks like one. Not in a good way either in my opinion.
I think 73626 has an original board, very white binding is all. What do you see there that makes you wonder?
mandoryan
Apr-08-2005, 2:36pm
The little extension doesn't look right. It looks like it was kind of sloppily copied from an original. It could be that it was made originally that way though. I haven't seen enough to really know for sure.
This one is similar.. I think it's right..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/71216_front2.jpg
Eugene
Apr-08-2005, 3:02pm
Shot of the day (or week)!? There's enough here for a good month!
Well I'm hoping to keep piling them in http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Here's one of the first of the raised Pickguards, with "Patent Applied for" stamp..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/9227_PATENT.jpg
And here's the clamp, made from modifed violin chin rest hardware..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/9227_tp_clamp.jpg
Underside view
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/9227_clamp_hardware.jpg
Almost completely a teens A, except for the "pineapple" tailpiece cover..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/9227_front.jpg
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/9227_tp_cover.jpg
Oof. I did 55 new images in the archives today, now bringing the total to 4673 pictures of 3172 instruments.
Ok folks, this instrument (F4 #5713 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?3260)) is quite literally the reason I got into this whole archiving business in the first place (note the archive logo). These spectacular photos by Dave at Elderly instruments:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5713_face.jpg
The Back..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5713_back_detail.jpg
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5713_pickguard.jpg
Senor Torchio:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5713_peghead.jpg
Handel tuners.. appear to have been left natural brass (like the tailpiece cover) which gives a sort of "gold hardware" look..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5713_tuners.jpg
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5713_tailpiece_cover.jpg
grandmainger
Apr-19-2005, 4:10am
http://www.grandmainger.com/avatars/smileys/worship.gif Those pics are incredible. It's so har to take good photos of metal parts.
yes, I've been in touch with the photographer at Elderly who took them- they are fantastic shots.
I think the brass parts aren't quite as tricky as chrome to photograph, they are more "scattering" of light than those mirror-finish ones are. Still, amazing details. I particularly like the shot of the Handels, the detail on the stamping is nice to see that sharply.
kyblue
Apr-19-2005, 6:47am
Wow! Thanks for posting these.
Playing with the flash tonight while I had the strings off. Here's a nice shot showing where the FON is on a snakehead..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/71261_fon.jpg
Another nice detail showing the serial that's pencilled under the bridge. The "T" and "B" are markers for Treble & Bass sides. I posted a shot of this once before, but this one came out nicer
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/71261_bridge_under2.jpg
Kind of a nice view of the tailpiece cover. Stamp looks like it was wearing out a bit?
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/71261_tp_cover2.jpg
mandopete
May-05-2005, 5:25pm
Dan - You are the King Of The Camera!
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 9:12am
Nice bridge top. It looks like it has some sort of stamp on it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Sunken original on the base in this shot, Darryl's saddle on the top. *enormous* difference in tone for the better with the replacement..
Darryl Wolfe
May-06-2005, 2:02pm
Notice how I don't cut the compensations down so low on the saddle. #It may not be exactly/perfectly correct, but I have not heard of one cracking in that lower right corner where the original eventually do. I also cut the wheel relief a shade deeper so that the top will go all the way down to the base
MANDOLINMYSTER
May-06-2005, 8:00pm
Hey Darryl& Dan,
I remember reading someplace, (probally here) that you don't want the saddle resting on the base, keep it raised off the base via the thumbwheels for better vibration transmission (more focused) from saddle-thru the posts- to base- to the the tone bars. B.S.or truth? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
goose 2
May-07-2005, 12:22am
Wow, that's weird. Just last night I was talking to Sharon Gilchrist who is a good picker out of Santa Fe and she has a Gilchrist F-5 made in the 80's that had the exact same headstock inlay and vine that that 3-pointer has. I had never seen the inlay before and now within 24 hours I have seen it on a vintage gibson and a modern gilly. Kinda cool.
Nugget did several of them too.. recenly, so has Hans Brentrup!
uncle ken
May-21-2005, 3:49pm
I had the strings off my F4 so I polished the abolone on the headstock. I can't seem to capture the depth of the color though with my camera. They did some nice work back in those days.
Here's a truss rod F4 with an amazing back..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/70946_back_detail.jpg
Very nice..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/70946_flowerpot.jpg
This image and the previous two are of #70946, a 1922 F4 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2915)
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/70946_face.jpg
You guys see this one yet? It's a 1924 A-4 snakehead on ebay right now. It's really quite nice, I thought the bridge might have been replaced because of the small wheels, but feel free to enlighten me on that...here's the pic. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=7327080887&rd=1)
Charlie Derrington
Jun-01-2005, 7:21pm
Bridge looks period-correct to me.
Charlie
It's a 1924 A-4 snakehead on ebay right now.
WOW!!! That's one amazing looking vintage mando! 2nd owner no less! I wish I had several thousand $$$ sitting around for a mando right now... I would love to own that instrument.
Paul Doubek
I agree with Charlie, looks all original. I saw that one last night and made the appropriate Whoaaaaa noise. Very clean. One hint on stuff like that is a complete lack of scuffs on the case too!
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-02-2005, 12:06pm
I suspect that mandolin has a Virzi in it too..just not mentioned in the listing
levin4now
Jun-02-2005, 12:42pm
Dan,
There are many observant people commenting on these instruments, people who who know something about these instruments. I love irony, and found that one of your pics on this thread indicated an unusual location for the "flowerpot".
heheh, yes.. that is also a flowerpot http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Darryl- I'll bet you $20 there's no virzi, it'd have the rounded end '25 tuners if so http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ffpizza5
Jun-02-2005, 2:40pm
A few Black Face Gibson I had laying around.
Conrad
stevem
Jun-02-2005, 2:43pm
Wow. That is one awesome collection.
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-02-2005, 3:42pm
Darryl- I'll bet you $20 there's no virzi, it'd have the rounded end '25 tuners if so http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
come on Dan...see 78660..arrow ends, Virzi, only a few numbers later
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
doh http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
mandophil(e)
Jun-02-2005, 3:53pm
Dan:
You still win the $20. No Virzi--I checked with the seller. Were arrow ended tuners just used for a very short period on the A4's?
Phil Laub
Most of the A4/Virzi ones I know of have the '25 style rounded tuners. There are some anomalies, but Snakehead a4 rarely = virzi.. it was an option, not standard.
Arrow-end tuners roughly correspond to late '22 through end of '24, almost exactly the Loar period. Some snakes have the earlier style (like mine!) and a few have the later ones with the rounded ends..
Ken Waltham
Jun-03-2005, 6:09am
Snakes with earlier style tuners, ie notched end, have had them replaced. Arrow end tuners definately appear on A4's that have Virzi's.
I disagree Ken, serials roughly between 70000 and 72000 will have notched ones, arrow-ends after that.. There is no evidence that my snakehead (71261) had the tuners replaced..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/71261_tuners2.jpg
Here's 71462:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/71462_back.jpg
71598:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/elderly/90U-3624_headstock-back.jpg
71249 (same batch as my 71261) also had identical tuners and the peghead "lips" were smaller as in my personal one.. and the F4 pictured earlier in this thread also has the notched tuners
As for the virzi with arrow ends, you guys are all right.. there are some of them. There is a cluster of them, however, with the "bump end" style like so
80618:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/80618_tuning_pegs.jpg
81564:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/81564_tuners.jpg
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-03-2005, 8:55am
The notched end tuners vrs the arrow end tuners follows the same timeline as F5's and any other applicable instrument. Arrow end tuners appeared enmass early to mid 23. I've seen Feb 23 mandos both ways. Dan is right, the majority of Virzi A4's appears to be the "25" ones with the later tuners. But there were '24's with arrow ends too. I owe Dan $10 since it doesn't have a Virze (but there were Virzi A4's with arrow ends)
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Charlie Derrington
Jun-03-2005, 9:35am
They used what they had when they had it.
I've seen snakehead 4s with all three tuner configurations and although they do seem to follow a rough time-line, it appears that they just used what was handy at the time.
Charlie
These 2 shots shows nicely two variations between roughly 71xxx and 72xxx.. Shape of peghead top, and tuners used
Pretty similar otherwise!
Ken Waltham
Jun-03-2005, 1:55pm
I'm going to respectfully disagree. Snakehead A4's, especially, should not have notched end tuners, unless they're changed.
Fluer dis lis, or later Waverly's for sure.
Having said that, I don't really think it's a big deal, but, there are a lot of spare parts floating around auction sites. They come from somewhere.
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-03-2005, 2:32pm
OK, there is no real argument here. That is because they made no snakehead A-4's until well into 1923..when they more or less ran out of the notch ended ones. My 73001 has a paddle head with arrow ends, 72795 is the earliest snake A-4. It should be noted that A-4 73656 is a snakehead and does have original notch end tuners. I see no more after that. It is probably the only one, and as Charlie said, "they used what they had". One set of tuners within only a month or so..big deal
Darryl Wolfe
Jun-03-2005, 2:34pm
I can assure you, these have not been changed
It could be Ken, I suppose. The thing that makes me think they are original is the fact that they correspond to the serialization though, after around 73000 I've only seen a few.. my take on it was that whatever was in stock had to get used up eventually.. that sort of thinking helps explain some of the oddball Loars and later with interestingly different hardware, or finish.. or features. I personally think that there is a "trend" to features, where "most" have a certain set before serial XX, and most have a different after.. but if you find another box of notched end ones late in the game they'll get used, etc.
Personally, I think the arrow-ends were a new thing to the Loar specs, and they started rolling them out as the old stock of parts dried up. Same applies for some of the curious hold-over paddle-heads into the snake era!
keithd
Jun-03-2005, 4:02pm
Dan and Darryl,
A bit off topic, but were the snakehead, oval hole, mandolins braced the same as teh teens ovals, with a short transverse brace just south of the hole, or, was there some Loar influenced tweaking of the bracing?
Keith
Same brace as far as I know
A little 3-pointer scroll..
What do you guys think of the red marks up around the scroll? Any theories as to how those could get there? The case is red, and there's a wear pattern there, but I've not seen color transfer like that..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3263_scroll_oblique_view.jpg
Also got a better one of the back today
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3263_full_back_2.jpg
Some nifty stamping on the Handel tuner plates:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3263_tuner_plates.jpg
Probably just about enough pictures of this mando! One of Darryl's pickguards will go on soon, as well as hopefully a replacement single-piece bridge. I also need to decide if I should get a calton for it, or something else maybe. The original case could use a break!
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3263_side_view.jpg
This is the scroll on 1922 F4 #70946 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2915)
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/70946_scroll_detail.jpg
And this is a detail of the peghead..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/70946_peghead_detail.jpg
There aren't many out there that sound as nice as this one either
mandoman15
Aug-04-2005, 9:13pm
oh about the red around the scrol area, it's probbably due to pigments in teh finish that sort of settled there, th finish was probbably mixed with several colours to get that pumpkin color, and red it was probably one of them. On a concave surface, especially if the mando was hung to dry, het heavier red pigment may have settled there, also a bit off topic... in my enthusiam in answering this question i didn'tmanage to spell "the" correctly once...except for just now. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
mandoman15
Aug-04-2005, 9:14pm
also note the really nice closed inlay of the gibson. thats a right swell axe ya got thar
Arr, I wish it were mine. Belongs to a friend.. Here're some nice shots of 1917 f4 #37254 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2481)
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/37254_scroll.jpg
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/37254_face.jpg
This one is pretty big (apologies to modem folks) but sure shows the coolness of it all
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/37254_soundhole2.jpg
I was feeling arty-farty..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/37254_soundhole.jpg
Finally, the tailpiece and a little bearclaw figure
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/37254_tailpiece_cover.jpg
phriend2spin
Aug-05-2005, 12:45pm
I have always wanted to know somehting about vintage mandos. So, how is the action (was it good back then) and are there not some serious problems like warping and cracking?
Some problems sure.. they were pretty much just well-built. The F4 above had a neck heel crack repair.. that's about it. The action is roughly where it was then. They used a dovetail joint for the neck to body, and Honduran Mahogany for the necks (mostly) or adjustible truss rods later & adjustible bridges.. that particular 1917 above didn't need aything done at all to it in 88 years by the looks of it..
Gorgeous instruments! I also wanted to comment on the quality of the pics... great close-up shots.
pd
mandoman15
Aug-07-2005, 4:39pm
Dan, those pics are huge! in a very good way, for 88 years that tailpiece is rather mint, the stamp is soooo perfect. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
also another thing not on the topic of your amazing photos, some of the scroll carvings on the old gibson f's are different than others in their own batch! how were they carved, by duplicators, or by hand? also we know that Gibson was just pumping out their mandos in this time period, i was wondering what kind of persons did they have working on them? Certaintly not fifty master builders...anyways, along the lines of the scroll ridges, i have seen many different ones how many were there....some of these questions may be impossible to answer but i find these old instruments fascinating and would love to learn more.
The case is red, and there's a wear pattern there, but I've not seen color transfer like that..
OK, this is interesting. I was attempting to steam-clean the case (some nasty gunk in there) and my yuck-soaking cloth picked up the exact reddish-ping stain that's on the scroll. I think that red came from the case..
I can't believe I didn't post these on the archive before.. just was cleaning up some folders and found these images from Rick Van Krugel that I hadn't posted to the site before.. this is mandolin #2526 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2782), possibly the 26th one made..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/2526_hollow_neck.jpg
Can you see now why these are called "pan backs" ?
How do you like your eggs...
This is an unusual view too..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/2526_broken_top_back.jpg
mandoman15
Aug-30-2005, 9:28am
was the top braced at one point or is that the reason for teh large crack running down the center of the top...
First ones didn't have the top brace..
JEStanek
Aug-30-2005, 9:38pm
Those split open pan-back ones almost made me ill. Kinda like seeing brain surgery. Dan, any chance of posting a guide of how you shoot your photos (camera, ideas on angles...etc.) My photos all look like junk compared to yours.
Jamie
Those pan-back ones come from a friend.
My method is pretty low-tech.. I can compose well (ie make sure there isn't a pile of dog vomit in the background), but mostly I just go outside on a slightly hazy day and snap them with the digicam (Canon G5). A few are posed with backdrops etc.. Frank Ford has a very nice explanation of his setup somewhere lurking in the pages of Frets.com. Some day soon I'll upgrade to an SLR type digicam.
JEStanek
Aug-31-2005, 7:31am
Thanks. I get tons of glare off of polished surfaces. I'll check out frets.com
Jamie
That's one reason for slightly cloudy days. Not hard to come by in England http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Spencer
Aug-31-2005, 10:32am
With my old SLR, I used to use the bounce flash off a white ceiling. That's before built in flashes. If you use a kind of velvety blanket for a background, you can get lots of interesting effects with shadows and texture. The bounce flash gives good illumination without glare, and you can see a lot of features in the wood. Eats batteries in a hurry, though.
Nice pictures Dan!
Spencer
Yeah, Jamie Wiens has been attempting to teach me bounce flash. My latest groupings shot with 3 fs was that trick. Needs work, and a better camera http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
OK, this one takes the Biscuit. It's one of 3 known vintage Gibson Lefties..
#32618, now appearing at a mandolin archive near you..
Ken Waltham
Sep-19-2005, 4:16pm
Very cool.
There is alledgedly a lefty F7 around these parts. Someday I hope to find it.
Ken
c3hammer
Sep-19-2005, 10:59pm
Oh, my! I might actually be able to get MAS as a lefty afterall http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Cheers,
Pete
I've heard from Frank Ford that there is a lefty three-pointer in circulation as well. I think it's time to open a new page on the archives.. "rumored instruments" to track down. I have a couple of doozies myself that I've hit a wall trying to locate http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Darryl Wolfe
Sep-20-2005, 8:33am
As always..The F5Journal has been there. Left handed 3-pt..pic taken at Tut Taylors in 1966
Darryl Wolfe
Sep-20-2005, 8:36am
ps...the slide is not backwards...look at the clock. Of course Dad was interested in the Dobro Mandolin
f5loar
Sep-20-2005, 11:09am
Makes sense they would make them afterall Orville was left handed!
PCypert
Sep-20-2005, 11:45am
For photos, simply use bounce flash as noted above if possible (you'll need a DSLR for this but should have one anyways http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ). Also, the cloudy day thing works. Cloudy days tend to have neutral, uneventful light for most pics, but are nice in the fact that you get even light with loads of saturation to your colors. Rainy days are the best for colors. For cheap, consumer cameras your options are limited. One major thing people do wrong is shoot with auto white balance if you camera will let you set it. If it will pick the white balance manually and learn the effects for your camera. Read your manual for this as each camera is so different I couldn't even explain. Also try and shoot raw if you camera offers it. Takes more time but great shots result. Lastly if you have a direct flash don't use it unless you absolutely have to. Turn it off, tape it over, etc. You can put some kind of translucent tuper ware dish or some other slightly opaque thing over the flash to difuse the light. You could even hold a small miror to direct the light up to the ceiling and then back down again. Trust me, most of the light will make it back. Speed of light is quick. Some of the best lighting you can get is inside around 12-2 near a window. Perfectly difused light, not too bright, good contrast and saturation. I'd love to get to photograph all these mandos. Get to play mandolins and take pictures...it's my dream day. Best of luck,
Paul
doc holiday
Sep-20-2005, 9:09pm
Hmm 32618. Just when I thought it was safe to gaze.....Thankfully there can't be too many lefty F4's out there. It would be the perfect affordable vintage mando.. I'm drooling like a banjo player on a level stage, out both sides of my mouth! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif Doc
Jim Hilburn
Sep-22-2005, 8:26am
Darryl, I wonder what that F-hole A was in '66. A Givens?
Darryl Wolfe
Sep-23-2005, 9:03am
I'm not really sure on that one
Jim Hilburn
Sep-23-2005, 9:28am
After looking closer, I'd bet it's whatever Gibson was making at the time. It's a 12th fret neck and the trussrod cover looks like something they would have used. The only hint that it's an F hole is the little dot of reflection on the right.
"Tulip" has a unique inlay:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3376_flowers.jpg
And a very early patent stamp:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3376_patent_stamp.jpg
Cool finish cracking around the older style Gibson logo:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3376_peghead_logo.jpg
And she looks a little like a water balloon..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3376_face.jpg
Very cool, Dan. Do you have a full-frontal shot?
pd
mandolooter
Nov-14-2005, 4:20am
Dan, when you say water balloon what do ya mean...i suspect , if it's like mine, when compared to my 1914 A1, it has the same rim measurement but the front and back arches are HUGE and it holds way more air/sound. Gives it a different sound. Your tulip is a beauty, and mine as ya mention on the Archives, still needs a bath! It's wearing new fret now and the playability is so much better. Tha originals where down to the fret board.
Jeff
Left handed F-4 - You'd figure they would have angled the Gibs*n logo in the right direction so it would not be upside down while holding mando on angle of playing.
but I guess it's hard building backwards.
Yeah, by "Water balloon" I mean it's super-arched, looks like it's hanging off the neck even. Quite funny. It took a little jiggering.. the tone is splendid! The G string needs tweaking (change gauge I think), but the DAE are very LOUD and have a very nice "ploonk" to them. It's remarkable how different from 3263 it is...
3376 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/3376) full frontal/oblique
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3376_full_front1.jpg
mandolooter
Nov-14-2005, 1:47pm
wow Dan...that is sweet!!!! Yea that arching on the top is the sam as mine..maybe I will give it a bath soon...it just has such a "well used mojo" to it.
mandolooter
Nov-14-2005, 1:59pm
Dan...a few more things I noticed...mine has a 2 piece neck but instead of 2 pieces side by side they are one on top of the other. I've never seen that before. Its listed in the archives as black but it's brown. The top is dark except for inside the soundhole ring which is a lighter color. Fingerboard is the dyed maple also.
Bill Halsey
Nov-15-2005, 12:41pm
Here's something I did just for fun...Gibson Factory Order Numbers are stamped on the headblock and are not always noticed. Here are a couple, one in an F-4 and one in an A, both from c. 1915.
Bill Halsey
Nov-15-2005, 12:42pm
Oops, here's the F-4:
Bill Halsey
Nov-15-2005, 12:47pm
BTW, I did a series of these, and in each one the glue beads around the top linings and blocks indicated that the tops were glued on after the backs. Anyone know if the F-5s were done in the same order?
Here's my 3263's Handel tuner button, with new macro lens..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/3263_handel_large.jpg
Holly "S" you could see a hemmoroid on a fleas butt with that lens http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
That's as big as it gets http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
craigtoo
Dec-28-2005, 2:50pm
i feel so small...
mandolooter
Dec-29-2005, 2:40pm
I just found this place during a non-related web search...lots of goodies to interest us mandogeeks and music instrument lovers as well!
museum (http://www.usd.edu/smm/Tours/LillibridgeGallery/OrvilleGibsonGuitar.html)
Check out the whole place if ya have time it's cool.
As for the guitar i don't CARE how it sounds, it's awesome!!!
Wow.. I've never seen one of those before. Here's the dated Orville Label as an appetizer.. that's just too cool for words!
http://www.usd.edu/smm/PluckedStrings/Guitars/Gibson/10855/10855GibsonguitarlabelleftsideLG.jpg
2nd view
http://www.usd.edu/smm/PluckedStrings/Guitars/Gibson/10855/10855GibsonguitarlabelrightsideLG.jpg
mandolooter
Dec-29-2005, 3:32pm
Dan..I had you in mind when i posted that BTW! Glad ya like it....it's too cool for words huh!
Hey and thanks for the heads up on that ebay mando...didn't have the moola but it was a great idea and i'll keep my eye and browser posted...kill 2 birds with one stone...TP & MAS
Jeff
mandolooter
Dec-29-2005, 11:24pm
Dan if you wanna take the time heres a link of Music related museums...
http://www.usd.edu/smm/links.html#coll
There's a few weeks of looking around easy...lol
Paul Hostetter
Jan-03-2006, 2:29am
While we're stretching the bejeezus out of this page with oversized images, how's this for a signed Orville item?
http://www.lutherie.net/orville.mandolin.1906.sm.jpg
These were taken by Michael Darnton of Chicago.
bluesmandolinman
Jan-03-2006, 5:07am
this 3-pointer is a killer ! Thanks for the photos !
Look at the extra scroll at the fretboard extension http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Very nice bridge and very nice tailpiece ...and...and...and.....
this is so cooool !
Fantastic Paul! I'd love to know more about that instrument. 1906 is a very late date for an Orville!
Ah.. looks like the same instrument as this one George Gruhn wrote about:
"Orville Gibson's Last Mandolin" (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/articles/orville_f.shtml)
mandolooter
Jan-03-2006, 10:23am
His "final glory" He did well! I'd love to hear that one.
Michael Gowell
Jan-03-2006, 11:44am
I really like the way the banjo-style tuners leave the peghead shape uncluttered. #Since there are now geared banjo tuners available, have any builders used this idea? #Admittedly the tuners would be a bit crowded, but the use of a winder when changing strings would relieve the primary physical disadvantage of this design. The minor inconvenience of using crowded tuners while perfecting tuning in everyday use would, to some, be more than offset by the clean aesthetics.
Paul Hostetter
Jan-03-2006, 1:22pm
Yeah, the photo I posted was taken at Bein and Fushi just before it was sold to George. Strange back story, too.
Banjo tuners like on this one are really not good: they're friction 1:1 pegs that work poorly even with gut or nylon strings, not to mention metal ones. Geared banjo tuners weigh a ton. I actually installed some on an old Mexican mandolin. The headstock weighed more than the mandolin, but it was easy to tune. Geared banjo pegs are 4:1. which is not the ideal ratio for high tensions strings like one routinely sees on mandolins and guitars. I think there are very good reasons for the types of gears we usually find on mandolins.
Philip Halcomb
Jan-03-2006, 2:05pm
You don't see those tuners too often anymore...
mandolooter
Jan-04-2006, 1:41pm
I like everything about that mandolin but the bridge is really intriguing and it's lightweight look has superseded the one one Fret's.com as my choice for a 1 piece on my Clark F5...I made a similar one for my OM but it wasn't near as intricate. I like the challenge! That's a 7 scroller mandolin...lol!
mandolooter
Jan-04-2006, 1:43pm
oh yea before i forget i have a banjo with those same tuners on it...they suck bad! No matter how tight ya go they still lose there tuning and mando's have even more tension.
mandomick
Jan-06-2006, 11:14pm
Outstanding!!! Wonder if it ever gets played?
My wife convinced me to read a photo book..
The gear/plate.. both exposures were really really silly,
f/45 30 seconds exposure @ISO 100
Detail of the gear, a little extra sharp via photoshop
Getting the hang of this finally I think... Cool to see that detail on the plate eh?
As always... great pics Dan!!
Bill Halsey
Jan-09-2006, 11:14pm
Wowie! Dan, tell us about your camera & lens...(sorry if I missed it)...
Dfyngravity
Jan-09-2006, 11:19pm
Amazing detail! Dan what camera are you using and what's the megapixels? Lets hear some details about the camera.
That gear looks like something you wouldn't want your fingers getting caught in, and here I though mandolin playing was fairly harmless!! Other than stabbing yourself with the end of the A or E strings that come out of the tuners.
Canon EOS 20d (8.5mp) and those are a sigma 50mm macro lens .The shots were fairly absurd, f/45 30 second exposures to get decent depth of field. I'm a brand new baby in the photography world, I'm finding. My new camera isn't drool proof, so I've started reading the manual http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
johnwilson
Jan-10-2006, 11:55pm
Well I'll be damned! #I didn't think you could "expose" pixels with long shutter speeds. #Guess I better get oout the manual as well.
man doh
Jan-11-2006, 5:57am
Danb, Those photos are awesome. Looks like your really getting into the photography. It can be really rewarding.
Quick tip. Park youself next to a window in the early morning just after the sun comes up. you will get alot of strong natural cross light to take detail pics without a flash and quicker exposure times. to get true colors a camera is more gear toward natural light than bulb light.
Unfortunately I'm in England in winter, so you blink & you miss the daylight here http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Agreed. I'll probably get a ring flash for the macro to do these kinds of close-ups indoors when needed, but the camera's achilles heel is incandescent light
mandolooter
Jan-11-2006, 10:03am
3 years later im just getting used to the seemingly 2 second delay between when i thought i took the pic and when it actually happened!
Hah! That's actually the biggest advantage to my untrained hands of this SLR so far. from power on to picture taken is well under a second.. and the focus-lock happens quickly
Lynn Dudenbostel
Jan-11-2006, 3:29pm
Dan... I've got a 10D and I know what you mean about shooting in incandescent light. Are you shooting jpg's? If so, that's not helping your color temperature issues. If you shoot in RAW format, use a good RAW converter (later versions of Photoshop, Phase One, or even the converter that came with your camera), you'll have a lot more control of the color balance. RAW is an unprocessed (for the most part), uncompressed file as opposed to a jpg that is highly processed and compressed. You can process the RAW image and convert it to a tiff (less compression) for printing/storage or to a jpg for e-mail/net use. Just offers a lot more control. I make it a habit of shooting an 18% grey card (available at phot stores) in the first frame for a reference to balance on. If you forget to do that, a solid white area will do almost as well.
Dude
Joe Parker
Jan-11-2006, 3:57pm
Lynn-do what?? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
JPP
Darryl Wolfe
Jan-11-2006, 4:01pm
FWIW...yep, Lynn be one 'o the best photographers I've seen....he goes way back, and has always had 'da good stuff"
Lynn- so far yes, jpegs. Need a better lens and less reliance on photoshop!
I have a great macro lens, and understand how to make a pinhole aperture and wait 45 seconds.. but I need a good wide-angle lens now. I think the main thing hurting me is the 20d kit lens http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Here's my calibration bar btw.. I also ordered a nice metric photgraphers rule form a crime scene company!
Lynn Dudenbostel
Jan-11-2006, 11:30pm
What lens came with your 20D Dan? The standard Canon zoom that comes with the 20D outfit is a really decent lens. Not a Canon L series, but darn good. If you are looking for a good all around Canon lens, the 28-135 IS is really nice for around $400. The 17-40 L series is fantastic, but quite a bit more expensive. Also, if you are going to get really serious about digital and want to get the most from your equipment, a top of the line CRT monitor (yes, they still beat LCD screens) and a colorimeter to calibrate your monitor are essential. You'd be suprised how poorly set-up most monitors are. If you want to skip the high end monitor, at least spend $100 on a Pantone Colorvision Spyder to set-up your monitor. You'll get a lot more consistent results this way. Your final images are only as good as your weakest link, and in most cases, it's the monitor set-up!
Dude
jasona
Jan-11-2006, 11:58pm
I'm going to need to invest in a professional digital SLR (heavy on the macro use) in the near future and this camera talk is really helping me. Do carry on! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Lynn Dudenbostel
Jan-12-2006, 12:09am
Jasona... as you might can tell, I'm big on Canon. My brother is a professional photographer and has had Nikon and Canon digital. Both are fine cameras and both will give you great results, but Canon has far better customer service. Depending on your needs, a digital Rebel or Nikon D70 may just be the ticket at a reasonable price. Digital SLR's are great. None of the shutter lag associated with the "point and shoot" models and a larger sensor means better images with lower noise levels (at higher ISO settings). It's an addiction as bad as instruments. I shot and developed my first black and white film with my dad's help while in the 4th grade. I've shot everything from 35mm all the way up to 8x10. Didn't do much besides family photography for years, but digital has the juices flowing again. It's a blast, and my hands don't smell like fixer anymore!
Dude
JEStanek
Jan-12-2006, 8:27am
And your shirts aren't covered in coffee colored splots. Thanks for chiming in with good advice, Dude. I did a ton of B/W photography/printing in college and am poorly satisfied with my point & shoot digital. The choice over the next year will be mandola or Rebel? Do you know if the Nikon lenses from their film SLRs will work on their digital cameras?
Jamie
Lynn- it's the 18-xx lens.. I think I need it cleaned actually. Noticed this morning that the sigma macro shows perfectly clear, some fine black specs in the Canon one. I suspect it was dusty, it was a demo at the store.. this is probably the source of the noise.
dpreview suggests I get rid of the kit lens and get an ultrasonic. Hmm, those are about $750 http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Regarding color- yes.. my wife is a graphic designer from a former life. We have a pretty good (BENQ) LCD for colors, but a CRT beats the pants off it on any given sunday. I've got it working pretty well at the moment, my prints match my screen color and the real world fairly well, but I could certainly tweak it!
I'm planning to shoot as many Loars as I can in bakersfield with the colorbar on them. Jamie's also going to help, we should have a big pile of content after that event!
Lynn Dudenbostel
Jan-12-2006, 11:24am
The 18-55 is a good lens. You "should" get good results with it. If it's not giving you sharp photos, and it's still under warranty, have the dealer send it and the body to Canon for calibration. Most of the Canon's have ultrasonic motors. Just makes the lens focus faster. The 28-135 is a USM (ultrasonic). Best thing to do is totally ignore most of what is said in dpreview.com. About the only forum that is decent is at www.robgalbraith.com Mostly pros there, or at least use to be.
The Spyder colrimeter is down to about $99 now. Works with LCD and CRT. I've got a 19" Lacie CRT with a Mitsubishi tube. I don't think they make CRT's anymore though.
Jamie... as I understand it, the Nikon lenses that worked with the autofocus film bodies should work with the D70. Just remember, the sensor on the D70 and D100 aren't the same size as a piece of 35mm film, so you have a 1.5x crop factor. So, your "normal" 50mm lens becomes a mild tele equivalent to a 75mm on your old film camera. There are full frame Canon SLR sensors, but you are looking at $3000 up. The crop factory is why you see such wide zooms on the digital SLR's.
Dude
Darryl Wolfe
Jan-12-2006, 12:35pm
See, I told 'ya Dude knew his stuff http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Lynn Dudenbostel
Jan-12-2006, 12:43pm
Thanks Darryl.... but I'll tell you, watching these guys frame up my shop right now shows me how much I DON'T know! I guess they couldn't build a guitar or mandolin though. I send Dan a photo of what's up already. He's welcome to post it if he wants. I'll send it to you too.
Dude
mandolooter
Jan-12-2006, 1:57pm
You guys are flaring up my CAS, now stop it! I got a Olympus C-720 and it's a great camera but the Canon I tried at Christmas made it feel like a 110 cardboard disposable! My film setup is all Canon but i haven't used it since I got the digi 2 years ago! Why would I...?
Darryl Wolfe
Jan-12-2006, 2:14pm
Same here mandolooter. Canon A-1 and EF laying in the drawer, along with the 24mmFD and 50mm1.4FD and 100mmFD macro. Sony DSC S85 now at shot number 5500
oops, posted in the "Hey Dude" thread!
Here's a close-up of an inlaid guard.. 3376
FON (just above the virzi label)
Tuners are "Bump-end" type from '25
More of Snakehead A4 #81564 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2425)
It's nearly immaculate.. you can see some finish flaked near the pickguard clamp. Thos flakes follow a couple of crazing lines. Under very bright angular light you can see the fractures in the lacquer topcoat (it is a '25, they started to get that finish from there out).
The pickguard comes by way of Mike Compton.. it was a spare he had that came from a 1925 or later Gibson. Michael Lewis kindly fitted it for me (as well as doing a superb setup on the mandolin as a whole). It was also fitted with a stew-mac saddle (upside down!) which came off in favor of one of Tony Williamson's replicas.
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/81564_face.jpg
Virzi..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/81564_virzi.jpg
Back
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/81564_back.jpg
Cool case latch.. G&S is short for "Gieb & Sons", the Chicago company that made the cases for Gibson, Vega, others
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/81564_case_latch.jpg
Serial
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/81564_label.jpg
here's an mp3 sound clip (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/sound_clips/81564.mp3) of me practicing a bit on it, gives a reasonable idea of the tone. It's opened up a bit already since recording this snippet..
red7flag
Feb-26-2006, 10:36am
Very pretty tone. Thank you for sharing.
Tony
Recent ebay buy.. these are a dissassembled (shafts & gears off) set of replacement tuning pegs that will fit 81564. Note the stamping, not a common thing to see unless you have tuners off a mandolin..
All back together after the cleanup
nice to find a set that's exactly right. The ones on there are probably fine too.. I find most often there are little hunks of junk between the gear & the plate on the worm side, or the shaft and the plate on the other. Taking apart, cleaning them off, apply a little lubricant.. and they are like new machines!
Hey Dan, on those tuners do you think someone drilled out the other two mounting holes. I thought most Gibson waverlies had only three holes. Also the posts do not have the recessed area for the string windings. I'm just getting a little anal I guess.Nice buttons though http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Some had 5 holes, some 3.. different batches.. The shapes of the posts changed too, so these are original like that with no recessed area http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
JEStanek
Mar-31-2006, 6:11pm
Great sound clip. Neat pictures too. I espescially like the herringbone on the tuner knobs.
Jamie
Always good to add a little torch for sunday night/monday morning viewing
JEStanek
Apr-02-2006, 5:33pm
MMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Pumpkin....
Jamie
Jim Garber
Apr-02-2006, 8:16pm
tp cover
Dan:
Is that an original (from the factory) tp cover? Gorgeous engraving. What is the story on that one?
Jim
Not too much by way of historical info on it.. we acquired it from a fellow who purchased it at an estate sale some time ago. The TP is marked "STERLING" and is likely silver (heavy). To me it looks like a very fancy custom monogram piece for the original owner, though who can say if it was done by Gibson or as an aftermarket upgrade?
I've always thought that the 3pointers like this one are the peak of Gibson's aesthetic mountain.. the body lines, the peghead inlay, the color.. all of these add up to a style and look that stands as a unique testament to the artistry of Orville + the practiciality and playability vibe the facroty had going.
One more interesting note on this torch- compare the flames at the top with the very first page of this thread.. you'll see that some of the inlay is covered in the black. There are a couple examples like this, including a Loar-signed L5 where whole pieces of inlay are "blacked out" with the finish. I can't say why or how, but it's interesting to note
The label on F4 #9100 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/9100)
Single piece top, some bear claw figure. Sitka? Spruce, what do you think? Lots of silking on it too
Detail of the inlay. For some reason, some of the pearl was "inked over" on this one.. 2 "leaves" on either side of the flame.. you can see in this image
I think this narrow range (roughly 9000-13500) has the best scroll carving of all the gibsons, a nice sharp ridge
Pickguard has "Pat Applied for" stamp, meaning it's really probably 1910 or 1911.. the stamp with the date on the PG is 1911!
Bob DeVellis
Apr-14-2006, 2:20pm
I wonder if it's pearl under the ink or some sort of filler. I can't imagine covering perfectly good pearl but if the routed area and the inlay differed (e.g., if one or both of the missing leaves broke), they might have filled the routed out area and coverd the whole thing with ink or dye. I guess if the pearl had some serious flaw, that might be another reason. Just speculation.
A macro of the top (bruce, mailed you a supermacro)
Boy I wonder. I've seen this on a couple gibsons, including a Loar L5.. inlay that is clearly there, but inked over. Laziness? Check out this better macro that shows pretty clearly that the pieces are there.. I wonder what's going on on the right side. was it partially scraped then abandoned?
One more of the torch & I'll quit.. I love the dog-eared look of the case in this photo
Here's that torch retouched on the left side to show one of the "missing" pieces
Michael Gowell
Apr-14-2006, 9:30pm
Wow, Dan, what a beauty...
You may want to start that "best scroll carving" serial number range a little earlier. #I have 8431, a 3-point F-2, and it exhibits the same characteristics as the F-4 above.
Michael, I could be off be even more, I have very few pictures for stuff in that range. Could you post some images of your 3 pointer?
One more, got a nice shot today outdoors
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/9100_torch_inlay.jpg
sgarrity
Apr-17-2006, 12:38pm
Now that is a stunning mandolin. Not a thing I'd change.
The whole shootin' match:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/9100_full_frontal.jpg
jim simpson
Apr-18-2006, 8:24am
Thanks Dan,
It makes a wonderful background on the desk top!
Jim
I'm a big fan of orange-topped mandolins, same with pure redbursts. I wish more builders would use them!
sgarrity
Apr-18-2006, 10:26am
So how does the sound compare to a normal F4?
It's much more like a teens F4 than an earlier 3pt. I'll catch some sound clips this week to post, It's really quite nice. Very sweet if that makes sense, quite similar to a 1917 F4 I had briefly. Nice even response and tone up the neck.
As we're in the mood..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5264_face.jpg
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5264_front.jpg
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/5264_back.jpg
(listens for the sounds of jaws hitting the floor)
Darryl Wolfe
Apr-18-2006, 3:47pm
The Phoenix lifts off and takes to the air. #Or is it a Mockingbird? No, it's a yellow breasted string thrasher
sgarrity
Apr-18-2006, 4:24pm
I didn't thing they made any 3 point mandolas? Am I dreaming this?
That's no mandola, that's a mandocello!
</Obi Wan voice>
johnwilson
Apr-18-2006, 5:35pm
With enough room for at least two more points...
Here's what 9100 sounds like (mp3) (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/sound_clips/9100_first_october.mp3)
June Apple on 9100 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/sound_clips/9100_june_apple.mp3)
Check this out- the K4 has the same scroll as a style O..
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/78944_O_scroll.jpg
sgarrity
Apr-18-2006, 7:38pm
I guess I wasn't paying attention to the scale length. That deserves and even bigger WOW! So whats the story? I know there's gotta be a good one!
Darryl Wolfe
Apr-19-2006, 12:54am
Now that is what I expect of us Dan...perfect point and perfect read..no conjecture
JD Cowles
Apr-19-2006, 12:53pm
Good God...more than my jaw hit the floor Dan. That m'chello is gorgeous.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif
(this coffee mug is actually catching the drool)
Here's good 'ole #13100...early body with the non-S type scroll ridge mated to a '12 F-4 neck with double flowerpot. Neck is cedar and has a flat set with low bridge.
red7flag
Apr-19-2006, 5:46pm
I am stunned, that is lovely.
Tony
Darryl Wolfe
Apr-19-2006, 11:36pm
Hans, I'm slightly confused. Is that a mandolin or mandola
Darryl, it's a mandolin. It looks like Gibson had an old body laying around and stuck a new neck on it. It's very odd in that the body, pickguard (note the old style clamps), bridge, fingerboard, neck set all came out around 1902, while the neck and tailpiece are 1912. It is supposedly the last 3 point documented.
Hans- I don't think that yours is a re-work or a frankenstein. There are a couple others right around your serial number that I've personally seen that are similar. Mine also has a teens style neck on it, and the neck set isn't particularly outrageous. What angle is yours? Yours looks exactly right to me for the bridge & fingerboard for a 1910-1912 instrument!
There is another numbered 13092 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/13092) that you should compare.. Note that it's the same stamp number as yours!
This one has 2 clamps rather than 2 chin rest-style clamps like yours does, but is otherwise a dead ringer.