Memory Trouble

[Clyde Clevenger]

6 Months I've been after this tune, I can play it up to speed and reasonable well with the sheet music in front of me, but I just can't get it to stick. I've always had trouble with tunes that don't have a melody, like Grey Eagle, or Leather Britches, my brain just hears "deedle, didle, deedle, didle, on a loop. I'm at the point in my playing that, within limitations, I can play what I can sing, or hum, but I can't sing or hum Evening Prayer Blues. Anybody got a trick?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?

[hedding]

i don't know if this will help at all, but for me, I seem to remember it better after i've forced myself to recall it from my memory. I think its almost when the sheet musics it front of me my brain just don't believe the information needs to be remembered. I'd suggest taking it line by line, measure by measure if you have to. Start small and build on it and I think you might find after you've got a base some the new phrases might be even easier to remember. i hope this helps

[billkilpatrick]

my brain functions like a tempermental juke box in that sometimes, when i push the buttons, the melody gets played and other times i just get several (senior) moments of recorded silence.

i don't know how complicated the piece you're trying to play is but if you can at least link the tune's "hook" - assuming it has one - in your mind to a run on the fingerboard, sometimes the remaining sections of the piece all fall in place.

i'm beginning to understand why they call grey matter, grey.

- bill

[chuck.naill]

Mandoholic I have had the same problem, but since I only play by ear I need that "hook" previously mentioned.

ALso, I have listened to Grey Eagle just to see what you were talking about and there are several differant versions,not to mention tempos out there. It might help to think of these tunes as something that were more used to dance to than listen to and less as to exact note for note reproductions. In other words, prehaps we should get the general idea rather than note for note.

Chck

[AlanN]

What the others have said.

EPB is a challenge because it has that fully closed slurry Monroevian chord position downstroke thing happening. One misfire and the whole thing is shot.

[MandoJon]

Anybody got a trick?
Yes. To put it brutally: quit looking at the dots, man! and this from a man who is try to learn HOW to read http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Anyway, I have/had to memorise everything because although I could read, I couldn't sight read. So, I simply memorised a tune one bar/phrase at a time. Most of these tunes are pretty repetitive so it's not as bad as it sounds. Some people like to memorise things starting with the last bar and then learn the second to last bar etc. I never found that helpful, but some people do.

I simply learnt each bar of the 'A' part adding the next bar once I'd go it in my head. Sometimes I would work on just three of four bars somewhere 'into' a longer piece to save 'over-repeating' bar 1 (avoids boredom). Play the bar looking at the music. Then play the bar from memory. The play it again looking at your fingers. Repeat for bar 2. Put bars 1 and 2 together to make a phrase (or more if necessary). Repeat for phrase 2. Put phraes 1 and 2 together and so on. But you MUST stop looking at the dots if you want to memorise it.

Then, once you think you have it, play the tune ultra slow. Then play it ultra fast and lastly play it at performance speed (I think this 'polishes' you memory - I find it helpful - Ultra slow allows you to think about fingering and the notes as you play them. Ultra fast forces you to rely on 'muscle memory' because you are playing too fast to think. Performance speed reminds you to play at a speed that's pleasurable to listen to).

If I'm concentrating on one tune it takes me a couple of hours to a few days to memorise most fiddle-type tunes (depending on complexity and mood).

[kudzugypsy]

imo, you really DO have to hear it in your mind to pull it off, there are some players that can train muscle memory, repetition, etc, but being able to internally hear is a skill that can be learned with practice. most tab readers never aquire this skill, because they are working backwards - they are trying to train their hands to do something their inner ear has no idea what it should sound like - that's why all these tab books that dont come with cd's/midi files are useless, imo.

you can also try teaching it to someone - the act of teaching someone else the tune will strengthen your own understanding. i have played a lot with the first/second generation BGers and they have AMAZING song retention - mainly because they learned it painstakingly off the recordings, or from player-to-player teaching of the tune - even songs they may rarely play, they seem to remember.....because they can hear it in their head, and they have sufficient mastery of their instrument to make the ear>hand connection.

also, probably the best, is to throw away the sheet music, get the song in the cd player and try to play along with it, or break it down on the spot - you already *know* the song, so this should be straightforward - if you have a slow-down software program, this makes it much easier.

another tip is that when you are dealing with a blues song (most have no *melody*) this is just a product of knowing the blues language - #the blues, because it is one of those weird forms that has a strict general way things fit together, but a very wide open way to interpret it. after you listen to LOTS of blues in various forms, you begin to *feel* what is going on and why.

[bjc]

I was thinking about posting something like this...I am trying to memorize all the solo pieces I know. I have them about halfway done, but it seems that at times I run out of memory space. I'll add a piece and then complete forget (temp only) an older piece...it's getting better, but it is frustrating.

[bsimmers]

I've had the same problem memorizing some of those old fiddle tunes. I have more success if I try to learn from one specific version. And I mean just one break. It may be the fiddle, it may be the guitar. But, most recordings have some hot breaks that are difficult for a hack like me to hear the melody. So, usually the first player to take the break is closest to the melody. I took a lesson from Herschel, and I got his video lesson. I highly recommend it, especially for Grey Eagle. If you find the right recording, I think they all have a definite melody. I recommend Herschel for a lesson. Also, his instrumental recordings. Also, Johnny Gimble's stuff.

Anyone catch Andy on TBS last night?:
"You always wanna do somethin else just when I wanna do somethin else." Ernest T. Bass

[JGWoods]

If I happen to learn a tune from notation or tab I find it is quite difficult to get it memorized.
Lately I have adopted my learn by ear method to the written music.
First off- I have some nice recording and playback equipment.
I take the tune I want to memorize and record it while reading it from the sheet music so I get a farily good version.
Then I play along. I have a footswitch control on the player so I can just tap the switch after each phrase to stop the playback, and I play with the phrase until I have the notes. Pretty soon I am going right on through the tune with no problems. Later, after many repeats I add double stops, variations on the runs etc. to keep it interesting and to make it my own.

[Spruce]

"I've always had trouble with tunes that don't have a melody"

I hope you're not saying that EPB doesn't have a melody,
'cause when I was learning it I couldn't get the damn melody out of my head... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

"but I can't sing or hum Evening Prayer Blues"

I'd make a point of calling the tune at jams, even though EPB can be a real jambuster.
Folks tend to stick to the melody on this tune, so you'll get dragged along for the ride and after 3-4 times through, you too will not be able to get EPB out of your head...

If you want to hear where EPB came from, and see how, uhhh challenging, it was for Mr. Bill to come up with his version of the melody, check out the original version by Deford Bailey... (http://s22.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1JEMRGC0GAGMA0JLHZU38ZFZQ6)

One has to scratch his head to figure out how Mon got his melody from Deford's version...

What a great tune....

[glauber]

Bruce, whenever you post a MP3, it's guaranteed to be dynamite. Thanks!

[Spruce]

"Bruce, whenever you post a MP3, it's guaranteed to be dynamite."

Really??
Maybe this (http://s24.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3L4RUYI65WNPL380CCE21OKMLN) will change your mind... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ShaneJ]

Bruce, that one's better than Deford's version. Cool.

Who is it?

Never mind....I see it's the fabulous Bruce Harvie! Nice pickin' & groove!

[Tom C]

I find this tune rather straight foward. Lots of Monroe licks. Usually the guitar
has a harder time finding the tempo. This may be because that first note in the starting in measure is 5 beats long so it go into the next measure.

[jim_n_virginia]

imo, you really DO have to hear it in your mind to pull it off, there are some players that can train muscle memory, repetition, etc, but .....
When I learn a tune I commit it to muscle memory. Steve Kaufman says to play it over and over until someone throws something at you!

In other words I play a break or fiddle tune or whatever until I can play it half asleep or even watching TV!

Most times I start out playing slow to a metronome and just keep clicking up the tempo and then play it until I am sick of it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Usually when I learn a tune like that I can also play it so fast as to render the tune unrecognizable. Even though when I perform or play I don't play it too fast it's nice to have that control.

good luck! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[groveland]

Having never heard 'Evening Prayer Blues,' I listened to Spruce's version and went nuts over it (If you haven't listened, do!) It's this down-in-the-bayou blues thing that grooves heavily - And I'm thinking "How did I miss this tune all these years?" So to get some context, I did some quick research this morning, listened to some mp3s, and much to my surprise, no other version has the guts Spruce's version has (IMHO, YMMV). I humbly suggest we may have just discovered the new standard treatment of Evening Prayer Blues, folks!

No financial interest - Just a job well done.

[woodwiz]

Really??
Maybe this (http://s24.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3L4RUYI65WNPL380CCE21OKMLN) will change your mind... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Very tasty. Liked it a lot.

[Markelberry]

I have always loved this tune and just started workin on it this weekend,Butch Baldasari plays it on Richard Greene Woves are Howlin love that recording. It stuck right away today for some reason?