learning language/music

[billkilpatrick]

there's an interesting program this week on bbc radio 4 concerning how we learn foreign languages. i'm not sure if that part of the brain that handles music is the same that handles language but there appears - my idea, not the program presenter's - to be some correlation.

if this is of interest, please go to:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/

... and click on the "say what you think" program listed in the "listen again" column on the right hand side of the page.

- bill

[CraigF]

Language and music are handled by different parts of the brain. People who cannot speak can sing. Just last night on CNN, Paula Zahn had a story on a blind autistic girl who can't talk but can play anything on piano after hearing it just once. She also composes. Her parents brought her a toy keyboard when at 5 years old, she was singing to a song on the radio. She taught herself to play.

[billkilpatrick]

Language and music are handled by different parts of the brain
this is baaa-d ... news for me as it reinforces doubts i've secretly harbored all my life concerning the nature of my brain and yours (collectively.)

the formal approach i've always adopted when learning a foreign language - or music theory - can best be described as mathematic in that it usually involves constant repetition of whatever it is i'm trying to get on board - in the same way that i used to repeat - parrot fashion - the multiplication tables or presently play scales. this method usually carries me as far as a "c" on any subsequent examination but is rarely retained in any meaningful or comprehensive way thereafter.

this is a somewhat simplistic explanation for what i'm sure is a very complex process but in experiencing day to day life in a foreign country - italy - for over 15 years i've found that certain phrases often get repeated - regardless of the topic of conversation and that i'm able to punctuate anything i might say in italian with a perfect repetition of these phrases. not because i've translated the words (some of them make no literal sense in english) but simply because i've heard it said in the past and it sounds right now ... much like throwing in an appropriate "lick" on a mandolin. if i play along with a recording i can sometimes duplicate what i hear but if i try to plot that passage out, note for note, it usually ends up a mess.

don't know if i've explained myself properly but if i'm conscious of the rhythm and listen to the language purely as sound - meaningful sound - i sometimes repeat what i hear like a native italian. if i try to construct what i'm hearing so that it's grammatically correct i usually end up sounding like a tourist.

it's a two-part radio program so i'll see (hear!) what transpires next week.

- bill

[daisygirl]

don't know if i've explained myself properly but if i'm conscious of the rhythm and listen to the language purely as sound - meaningful sound - i sometimes repeat what i hear like a native italian. if i try to construct what i'm hearing so that it's grammatically correct i usually end up sounding like a tourist.
That makes a lot of sense. I can read French moderately well, but I can barely speak it. I have the hardest time putting a sentence together that doesn't sound exactly like a horribly awkward translation from English, even though I can read written French without having to word-for-word translate in my head.

I'm learning to read music, and in some ways it's comparable to learning a new language but in some ways it's harder. A strange thing keeps happening to me: Once I get a concept down, I'm okay, but the first time I try to work out a more complicated bit than what I've been doing, after a while I start feeling a little sick. It's like I'm doing one more thing than my brain can comfortably handle--it feels exactly the same as if I try to read in the car on a hilly road. Fortunately that only happens the first once or twice I come across something that's new and harder than what I've already done, then it doesn't happen again until the next time I do something that's a stretch for me. (I very much hope that stops happening as I get better at this--I started out maybe two months ago, knowing approximately squat about music. And it's kind of a nuisance to have to stop practicing and lie down until my stomach settles down...)

[CraigF]

Bill,

Learning anything new requires some memorization. The key to memorization is repetition. There are at least two levels here. Recognizing sounds and knowing what they mean. As one can learn what a word means in a foreign language, one can do the same with a whole phrase. This is quite useful because many phrases don't translate literally.

So, while you may use the same techniques for learning language and music, the ability to do this relies on different parts of the brain. For many autistic people, it is the language processing that suffers not so much the auditory perception. For instance, they can repeat a sounds (words or phrases) perfectly. This is called echolalia. But, when try to say something meaningful (that is originate a thought and then vocalize it) the process breaks down.