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Dray
Feb-01-2006, 2:14am
Would someone please give me a brief explanation or
example on transposing guitar tab to mandolin tab.
I have an old 60's guitar tab book, and I would like
to play some of the songs on mandolin. Thanks!

"Pike County Breakdown"

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

250sc
Feb-01-2006, 12:43pm
I would learn them on guitar, than just play them on the mandolin.

Pete Braccio
Feb-01-2006, 4:03pm
I think that the easiest way would be be to use a computer program (TablEdit, Harmony Assistant, etc.). Type them in as guitar tabs and then convert them to mando tabs. I would think that this would be kinda tedious though.

Pete

Dray
Feb-02-2006, 1:07am
Thanks! For example if I had a song that had most of the
tab on the E and A strings on the mandolin what strings
or notes would this be on the guitar? Maybe I'm just a
little confused about the reverse order of guitar and
mandolin. Thanks again!

#http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

JimD
Feb-02-2006, 10:07am
This is a great example of why notation can be more useful than tab.

You don't have to translate it. It works for all instruments.

250sc
Feb-02-2006, 11:37am
I agree with JimD and that's why I suggested learning it on guitar than working it out on mando by ear.

Even if you find an application that will convert it from guitar to mando tab there is no way to guarentee the fingerings will make sense.

Learn the song on guitar to get it in your head then sit down with your mandolin and find the melody that is in your head on the mando fingerboard.

woodwiz
Feb-02-2006, 1:57pm
I have to agree wth JimD. Notation works for all instruments, and it's SO much easer to read than tab in the long run - was, even in the short run, for me.

After a while, it's just like reading words, and the notes seem to go right from the page to your fingers, with no need of translation.

Dray
Feb-03-2006, 1:26am
Thanks guys, and I guess I need to learn standard notation
while sharpening up my ear.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

red7flag
Feb-03-2006, 7:45am
One problem with notation is it gives no indication of where on the neck the player is playing it. If in the first position, it will not be much of a problem, but with players that go all over the neck, notation can pose a problem. I think that is a situation where you can use both together. I like learning materials that provide both. My 2 of new 5 cents.
Tony

AlanN
Feb-03-2006, 7:56am
I like learning materials that provide both.

Me 2.

And just be aware, Dray, that the E string on mando and guitar is the same pitch, so fret 2 on the E string is an F# note on both.

woodwiz
Feb-03-2006, 8:52am
One problem with notation is it gives no indication of where on the neck the player is playing it. #If in the first position, it will not be much of a problem, but with players that go all over the neck, notation can pose a problem. #I think that is a situation where you can use both together. #I like learning materials that provide both. My 2 of new 5 cents.
Tony
Notation certainly can indicate where a passage is to be played, if the author so chooses. Usually it's obvious, either because the notes are too high to be played elsewhere, or because it's easier to stay shifted once you're there.

I frequently shift diffferently than what the music indicates, both on Mando & fiddle.

jaydee
Feb-03-2006, 11:34am
[QUOTE] (red7flag @ Feb. 03, 2006, 6:45)
"One problem with notation is it gives no indication of where on the neck the player is playing it. If in the first position, it will not be much of a problem, but with players that go all over the neck, notation can pose a problem."

While this is true in some cases, it is not always. Also, many players have studied some kind of method (often while learning to read) which informs their shifting and position choice. Notice that I said choice. There are many ways to play one thing on every instrument. The player's familiarity with a method is what allows them to figure out what is the best way for THEM to play it. I don't want to harp on and on in this thread, but there's something implied in the quote above that I'm not comfortable with. The quote makes it sound to me like tab has come to the rescue of poor, flawed and imprecise standard notation. While standard notation is imprecise and flawed, it is not so because it doesn't tell you where to put your fingers. I hate to sound like such a grouch, but reading music is not hard to learn, though it does take up precious time. If more of us put in the effort to learn to read and really know our instruments (which is part of the whole picture) we would have much richer musical community across the board (even in the b%%jo world).
Sorry I dragged on like this, but I feel pretty strongly about it.
Jeremy

Michael H Geimer
Feb-03-2006, 1:59pm
I learned to read notation on guitar, playing simple classical pieces (during my very first year of lessons no less). I remember many passages that shifted mid-phrase from 1st. up to 3rd. and vice-versa. Written correctly, notation should incidicate the shift with position notes above the staff. I had only a little trouble with the concept of positions as beginning student.

Personally, I think it is better to know that the same notes can be played in a number of different places. TAB does not really inform you of this fact. It might show the different places you can put your fingers ... a mark here for the 2nd. string/7th. fret ... a different one for 3rd. string/14th. fret ... another on the open 1st. string. TAB does not say to the reader, "This is E" the way notation does.

If one takes the time to learn the notes of the fretboard, and how arpeggios and scales move up the neck, then they should be fine with notation. She or he would already know several places to play an E note, and might not even need position indications to decide which fingering fits best in context.

Notation is like phonics, while TAB is like the alphabet.

(ef) = F, PH, and sometimes even GH.

- Benig

jmcgann
Feb-08-2006, 12:20pm
The "tab gives you location" argument works better for guitar, with more places top play the same note. For mando, most trad music is in 1st position anyway. More adventurous music will be up the neck, but the range of the instrument still makes it easier to read on than guitar, overall, to me. I think most of us will choose the lowest position to play stuff when given a chance.

For many years a system has been in place for guitar where a circled number beneath the note indicates the string, and a suggested fingering is sometimes included. So, you get the advantages of tab in terms of location, but with the much more valuable information of pitch (note name) that tab alone does not give you. Understanding how notes relate to the chord of the moment will open the musical universe for players who want an understanding of the great scheme of things IMHO. More opinions on tab and reading here. (http://www.johnmcgann.com/tab.html)

samfan
Feb-08-2006, 12:24pm
I would learn them on guitar, than just play them on the mandolin.
Yeah, but what about guitar tabs where they say Capo 2nd fret? Obviously you're not going to do that on the mando....how do you change the key to play the correct chord on the mando so it sounds like the record?

jmcgann
Feb-08-2006, 12:27pm
Transpose a second higher so a G becomes an A etc.

samfan
Feb-08-2006, 3:50pm
Transpose a second higher so a G becomes an A etc.
That ensures that it will sound correct?

250sc
Feb-08-2006, 4:28pm
samfan,

The capo shouldn't be an issue. If you know the music in your head you can find it in any key on any instrument. The mind part is the important part of the learning process, the hands, feet(pedal steel, organ), or mouth (wind instruments and vocals) will find a way to do what you hear in your mind but if you can't think it you can't play it.

ShaneJ
Feb-08-2006, 6:27pm
I've always relied on tab - too much. I can read music, and I know where the notes are on the fretboard. I've just never practiced sight reading and playing from notation. I am beginning to teach my daughter, and I am going to teach her the "right" way - AND learn myself in the process.

As for the capo, I use it on guitar when I want to play a song with different fingerings or chord shapes. The 3rd fret on the E string is a G whether you have it capoed there or you're fretting it with a finger. You can play key of "D" chords capoed at 3 and be playing in F, for example. It's just a way of playing a certain chord with a different fingering.

Got8Strings
Feb-25-2006, 11:06am
For me, deciding which string/fret to play a note and which finger to use often depends on several factors:

* What string/fret and finger I just came from
* What string/fret and finger I am going to next
* Is there a slide up or down involved

Even when I have a piece of music in standard notation, I usually transcribe it into tab so I can study, do some trial and error, and then document my preferred fingering. Actually, this is one of the most enjoyable parts of learning a new song for me!

I am self-taught, so this practice might be frowned on by those more knowledgeable, but so far it works for me. By the way, I play mostly italian folk music (lots of tremolo and very expressive) not rapid-fire bluegrass. Not sure if that makes a difference in fingering strategy or the utility of tab vs standard notation.