View Full Version : Gibson 50s A model
danhawk
Jan-24-2006, 6:31pm
So, I've been hanging around for a few weeks and checking out all the great stuff here and was curious about what any body might know about the instrument that I've been playing.
I'm at work, so I'll put up serial and perhaps photos later this evening. It has been very well played and had new tuners put on as well as a strap button. The back is Mahogany and the top appears to be sitka. the logo on the head stock is similar to the typical electric guitar Gibson logo and is Gold on a black headstock. There is no sticker inside, just penciled in right thru the f hole on the bass side. Just simple dots on the fingerboard and it had a pickguard at some point, but not anymore.
I've been trying to figure out what model it is, but so far no luck. Any ideas?
mandroid
Jan-24-2006, 6:49pm
Mahogany? not S'bursted? maybe An A40, would be top rim bound, unbound back rim, the arched back is a formed laminate, made in the factory, ply layup in the arched shape .
If so,I had one of those for many years, loved it...a fine instrument.
danhawk
Jan-25-2006, 1:04am
pictures...and serial is 7851 45 ...stamped, not penciled as I said earlier.
danhawk
Jan-25-2006, 1:06am
another picture
danhawk
Jan-25-2006, 1:08am
a little closer
danhawk
Jan-25-2006, 1:15am
i flipped that first pic...makes it a little easier to look at. Thanks for looking and for your opinion.
dano
Mandroid nailed it; A-40. According to this listing of Gibson factory order numbers (http://www.provide.net/~cfh/gibson.html#serial) I believe it's a 1951. The same site says they made the A-40 from 1948 through 1971. (http://www.provide.net/~cfh/gibson8.html#a40) I've got a blacktop 1952 A-40 with a very sweet tone. It's a great instrument.
The tailpiece cover should be the short cloud type too if you can find a cover for it.
For whatever reason none of those A-40s and A-50s that I've seen have labels and serial numbers. It seems common that the only identifier is the FON stamped inside the treble F hole (although you said yours was on the bass side). I haven't seen the early or late models, though, only the late '40s through late '50s Has anybody seen one of these with a label or S/N?
Great mando... hang onto it!
Paul Doubek
mandroid
Jan-25-2006, 2:13am
...the back brace, seen thru the F holes, is a repair, the label may have been removed to glue down the brace.
commonly builders stamp a number in the neck block, look for it with something like a dental mirror.
My A-40 looks very similar. 68386, has the orange label, and the number is stamped on the back of the headstock. Has the Kluson closed tuners, no pickguard. The top was painted white when I got it (1978), I took the paint off, put a few coats of varnish on it to protect the top. Good little mandolin, great neck.
danhawk
Jan-25-2006, 10:39pm
very cool...I found a guide to Gibsons and firgured that it was either a 51 or a 52, but wasn't quite sure which model. So it sounds like it has a laminated back and is most likely repaired as the brace is not original. Also, I was at work when I sent the first email, so you are right, the #s are stamped on the treble side.
I'm not looking to sell it but what would be the going rate for one of these and where do they stand in quality? Was this sort of a budget instrument or more middle of the pack for Gibson back then?
Dano
PaulD
Jan-25-2006, 11:37pm
First off... I don't know if the brace is original or not. It doesn't look right, and the glue job looks sloppy, but I don't understand a quote from my second link above where the 1948 A-40 is described as:
Symmetrical body, "F" holes, arched top and back, laminated mahogany body with cross brace, clamshell tailpiece, single bound top, rosewood fingerboard, dot inlays, natural or sunburst.
As stated earlier; mine is a '52 based on the FON and it does not have that brace. It's got tone bars on the top, not a "cross brace" or lateral brace, hence my confusion. I don't know why someone would put that brace in on a laminated instrument unless it had been crushed and they were rebuilding it.
From what I've been able to determine, these were probably not a high end instrument but they seem pretty well respected. I love mine. WRT value... I paid $650 for mine with a non-original hard case. It seems that the A-40 usually runs from about $700 to $900 or so, but that's off the top of my head and the range may be a little broader than that.
Paul Doubek
PaulD
Jan-25-2006, 11:52pm
Here is a picture of my A-40... it's the one reclining up front!
pd
danhawk
Jan-26-2006, 12:03am
That is a beautiful collection Pauld. #They do look very similar...thanks for sharing!
dano
f5loar
Jan-26-2006, 1:35am
This is a 1951 A-40N. The "N" denotes the natural or blonde top finish. The A-40 was sunburst. The cross brace is factory and correct for year made. Don't ask me why it's there but it's there and was in all made during this time frame from 1948 to 1951. They stopped putting the cross brace in 1952. The A40 was the low end starter A model begining in 1948. They never had labels only the stamped factory order number. Labels came in the 60's. This one is number 45 of a batch of 369 made in 1951 so it's not too rare when you consider they only made 22 F5s in 1951. This one has issues that would prevent it from bringing the top end price of around $1000. The maple A-50 brings more.
As usual, F5loar got da facts! I always thought my A-40 was 50's, but the presence of the orange label says 60's. Oh well, it still is a cool mandolin.
PaulD
Jan-26-2006, 12:40pm
F5Loar; Thanks for clearing up so many of my questions regarding these mandos. The one outstanding question I've had is about the finish on my blacktop. There's no indication that it's been refinished... some of the local music shops and other musicians agree that the finish looks original and as old as the mando. Someone here speculated that it may have been a custom order, but who would custom order a low-end mando? Whatever the story is, I love the look of it and it's even better that there don't appear to be many or any others around.
Paul Doubek
danhawk
Jan-26-2006, 1:33pm
f5loar, thanks for the info. It is pretty cool to finally know a little more about it. Of course it is not in the best condition, and non-original tuners, strap button added, missing tailpiece cover.
It does have a pretty cool vibe, but I'm also fairly inexperienced with Mandolins, so I'll have to play some other stuff to really know how this one relates.
I've played a couple Breedloves, a Weber f style and some cheaper stuff like Kentucky and Fender. I've played one gibson f5, although not a older one.
How would you describe the character of the a40 in relation to the other instruments that people typically reference? Is it dry, woody, open, tight, warm? Suited for Celtic, Bluegrass, Oldtime?
I do like it a lot and of course, I just need to practice more, for my own betterment and to open this mando up. It has been realtively un-played for about 20 years and I've been noticing the tone changing over the last few months.
This whole mandolin thing is pretty different for me as I'm primarily a guitarist.
dano
f5loar
Jan-26-2006, 11:52pm
The list of pros who started on A40s and A50s is pretty broad. Here's a few: Ricky Skaggs,Jesse McReynolds,Bobby Osborne,Buzz Busby,Chris Hillman,Oscar Sullivan come to my first recollection. As far as the blacktop A50 it could have been ordered special for Johnny Cash! Custom orders on any model were possible just as they are today. That's the kind of thing you need more than one expert opinion on. It could be a factory refinish that is so old it would be hard to tell today.
The A40's and A50's are excellent starter mandolins that are worthy of ownership. The shorter neck is the biggest back draw. Many of these were converted in the 1970's to long neck A5 style which was made popular by Doyle Lawson and others.