PDA

View Full Version : Taking the next step



Steve Cantrell
Jan-12-2006, 8:27pm
I think I've gotten as far as I can learning fiddle tunes...if you can ever do that. I can turn these around pretty quick and play a passable version, usually by tab or by ear pretty quickly. Last night I went to a jam and there was another mando player there that could really tear it up on seemingly any song. He commented in passing that he was "just playing out of the chords". What? Could someone help me out on that one--maybe lay out an example or a link I could have a look at. I get the basic gist of it---I think---but is there a technique to the improvisation? Do you you echo the melody? Do you learn some licks and play the lick in that key? I think I've got enough technique to turn things up a bit. TIA.

Jim M.
Jan-12-2006, 8:55pm
It sounds like you want to improvise on your break? I think one of the best book resources for that is from Niles Hokkanen. You can see his catalog of books at
Niles (http://www.btinternet.com/~john.baldry/mando/hokkanen.html)

He posts here as mandocrucian, and runs a famous mandolin boot camp too.

This book in particular would be helpful:

The Pentatonic Mandolin
30 Page Book / CD (running time 79' 30")
Learn to improvise solos using the major an minor pentatonic (5-note) scales, even if you have never taken solos before. It's easier than you'd think when you know some of the tricks and shortcuts that seasoned players use. This course guides you through the basics into more modern, complex sounds in a fun, step-by-step manner. Familiar tunes such as "Blackberry Blossom", "Salty Dog", "Salt Creek and other standard bluegrass chord progressions are used to illustrate the ideas. Book has both standard notation and tablature.

Jim Broyles
Jan-12-2006, 11:19pm
Steve, if you dissect those fiddle tunes, I'll bet you'll find that the melodies are basically and by and large, scales, which change from key to key with the chord changes. Look at the chords of the tunes and take notice of the melody notes over those chords, then take those sections and incorporate them into your improvisation. What that guy is doing is playing the notes in the scale of the chords he is playing as part of his soloing technique. For example, in Blackberry Blossom,in the Key of G, the first few phrases are all aroung a G major scale but then they throw a C# in there when it goes to the A chord. The C# note is not in the G scale but it is found in the A scale. If I don't know a song, but I do know the changes, I can solo over the changes by using notes which are contained in the scales of whatever chord is being played. I highly recommend learning the chord changes of all the fiddle tunes you know, as well as the melodies.

Mark Robertson-Tessi
Jan-13-2006, 10:13am
I can solo over the changes by using notes which are contained in the scales of whatever chord is being played.
Be careful here... #Maybe I am misunderstanding jbmandos post. #But, if the tune is in the key of G, when you get to a D chord, it is unlikely that you will want to use notes from the D scale (which includes a C#). #

For starters I would use notes from the scale of the key that the piece is in (say G, for blackberry blossom) over the whole break (with a few exceptions). #As the chords change, you emphasize notes appropriate to the chord playing at the time, but you still always use notes from the G scale. #

Occasionally there will be chords that demand an exception. #Such as the A chord, or the B7 in the B part. # The reason is that these chords already have in them notes that are not part of the G scale. #(i.e., an A chord has a C# in it, a B7 has a D#). #Knowing which chords are and aren't 'in the key' starts moving into music theory. #Also, i still wouldn't use notes from the A scale (which includes a G# (!)) over the A chord, I would use the notes of the G scale, only modifying the C to a C#.

There are many ways to think about this. #Some people like using modes. #I find improvisiation using modes to be cumbersome for traditional music, though modes definitely have their uses.

Cheers,
Mark R-T

psann
Jan-13-2006, 10:35am
I received Brad Laird's Master Mandolin Class and Mandolin Training Class for Christmas and am quite impressed. These books are really great for someone who is ready to take the next step up and, for me, were kind of turning on the light bulb about improvising. So many of the books are aimed at total beginners and you need to start in the middle. This one is not, yet I think beginners would really benefit from it as well (especially the second one) saving having to unlearn bad habits. No affiliation, just a happy customer. His site as has been mentioned in other threads, is mandouniversity.com

Pat

gnelson651
Jan-13-2006, 10:54am
I would recommend that you take the fiddle tunes you already know and play around with them. Try to find different variations but stay true to the melody. This is what the top contest fiddlers do.

If you need help, I suggest John McGann's "Developing Melodic Variations on Fiddle Tunes, Mandolin Edition."

It sounds more like to me that you're interested in making a transition to bluegrass music. In that case, improvisations is a part of this scene. As a BG mandolinist, your primary role #is rhythm and backup #by chopping closed chords. You would also added fills behind the singer and do a solo part when its your turn.

I like Jack Tottle's "Blugrass Mandolin" if you are in the advanced beginner/intermediate stage. If you are a beginner then Dix Bruce "Getting into Bluegrass Mandolin" will get you started.

If you want to take the next step to just improivisations, then Brad Laird's "Master Mandolin Class" and "Mandolin Training Class" might do the trick. There are no songs or licks, just concepts and practice excerises to help you learn on your own.

I am sure there is other good material that others will recommend. The way to improvisation is experimentation. You have to just "fiddle around" with the music and find what grabs you.