Recommend me some good mando-centric Celtic tunes

[Kid Charlemagne]

I've become somewhat tired of the same old progressions and rhythms that bluegrass has to offer. #This is not to say that I'm tired of bluegrass, or bluegrass-inspired picking, but just that I want to expand my horizons. #I shall, therefore, appeal to the experts.

Recommend to me some good Celtic bands (they don't have to be ethnically Celtic, although that might help). #I'm reluctant to just go buy trial CDs, since I'm a) on a budget and b) don't like to have a bunch of CDs around I'd never listen to. I'd rather have some idea of what I'm looking for.

Have at it, ladies and gentlemen! #I'm in your capable hands...

[Mike Crocker]

Simon Mayor.

Peace, Mooh.

[mandocrustacean]

I'm wondering too what would be the best place to start in looking to build a celtic repertoire. What are the tunes I should start with? Is there a link to a thread where this has already been discussed? I met a bodhran player at a bluegrass jamboree and would like to expand into some celtic tunes.

[Bob DeVellis]

Well, here's my take. Simon Mayor is an extraordinary mandolinist with a style that I'd describe as almost classical in approach -- lots of very quick ornaments and a very lush lyrical sound. Although he's certainly worth listening to, I guess I think of him as not that representative of what's been done in Celtic music with the mandolin. For sure, there is no one dominant style -- no Bill Monroe of Celtic/Irish mandolin. Perhaps the closest thing is Mick Moloney, who on the strengths of his "Strings Attached" CD (originally released in vinyl) is probably what first comes to mind when many people think about "Irish mandolin." It's a CD I very much like, with alternating cuts featuring mandolin and tenor banjo. Much of the banjo stuff works just fine on mandolin, of course. Another banjo CD with some great playing that can be adapted to mandolin is John Carty's "The Cat that Ate the Candle." Really wonderful playing of spirited Irish dance music with loads of drive, yet a very traditional, very Irish, sound. Michael Kerry's "The Rocky Road" isn't strictly Irish. There are some other styles represented on the CD but it has plenty of Irish music, played on mandolin in a very tasteful, authentic, and accessible style. The tempo is a bit more relaxed than that of some other players but doesn't lose energy as a consequence. John Colfer has "The Atlantic Journey," a collection of tunes (and 1 song, as I recall) done on mandolin family instruments. Our own Dan Beimborn's "Shatter the Calm" is a great selection of tunes on mandolin family instruments. Wonderful stuff. For a more Scots flavor, there are several highly regarded CDs by other Cafe frequenters Dagger Gordon and Kevin McLeod. Very fine musicians.

There are also a number of really good bands that have mandolin or some larger instrument of mandolic lineage in their mix. Dervish is certainly a noteworthy example. Usually, with band albums it's difficult to isolate the sound of the mandolin except for the occasional cut where it may be featured somewhat more prominently. If you want to get a feel for how mandolin can serve in a supporting role, those CDs are great examples, although at times it's tough to tell what's mandolin vs octave mandolin vs guitar or some other instrument.

I've already mentioned some banjo stuff that works well on mandolin. Also, Irish music played on just about any treble instrument can be adapted to mandolin. In some cases, the layout won't suit mandolin very well, but more often than not, it will. Concertina music in the more relaxed Clare styles of Mary McNamara or Chris Droney can be moved over to mandolin, although you'll have to determine a mandolin-suitable means of ornamenting the melodies. But those players aren't as lavish with ornamentation as, say, Noel Hill. He's great to hear but tough to emulate on any instrument. If you want to hear what a great session can sound like, Noel Hill and Tommy McMahon's "Music from Noch Nagreee" (or something like that) is one of the best live session recordings ever, although I don't think there's any mandolin in there. Mostly accordion and concertina. If your image of accordion is "Lady of Spain" or Lawrence Welk, this will cure you of that notion.

Well, that should get you started.

[mad dawg]

A list of some favorite mandolin artists in the Celtic section of my CD collection:
Dan Beimborn* (US/UK)
Kevin McLeod* (Scotland)
Daggar Gordon* (Scotland)
Simon Mayor (UK)
Paul Kelly (Ireland)
Shooglenifty (Scotland)
Whirligig (US; note: mando is only featured on about a third of the cuts, but it is nice work)

* MC members, as Bob notes above

I also heard a John Whelan cut once that features some really nice playing by multi-instrumentalist Robin Bullock on mandolin; can anyone recommend a mando-centric Robin Bullock CD to check out?

[danb]

Touchstone is a great band to check out- their two disks "Jealousy" and "The New Land" both get a lot of play time over here. The "Kilmoulis Jig" set or "The Mooncoin Jig" exemplify a lot of what I think a mandolin should sound like in Irish Music! They both have a lot of mandolin on them, but they aren't exclusively tune disks.. I quite like the singing (Claudine's sets especially) though.

I really like Dagger's & Kevin's disks too, very nice playing on those. John McGann does some very nice stuff, fused with Old-Timey or Bluegrass melodies.

One thing I especially like is when the mandolin isn't used like a tenor banjo. Usually this means more use of the sustain and chording sounds, and more variety in dynamics.

By the way, Dervish rarely (if at all!) use mandolin, their mix is Mandola & Bouzouki usually.. confusingly , Brian's Mandola is tuned DAEA, then up 1/2 step so really Eb Bb F Bb! This is to play along with an Eb flute and Accordian. Nice sound, gives it lift really. Seamus Dowd has a nice Gibson-style A.. I can't remember exactly, but I think it was made by Joe Foley perhaps? As far as I know though, it doesn't come out on stage. Brian used to use a pair of old Gibson Mandolas, now he has a great one made by Phil Crump (who also made Michael's 3 zooks).

[Dagger Gordon]

The New England-based guitarist David Surette is a great Celtic mandolin player. I have his album 'Back Roads', which I think is excellent, and I simply can't understand why he is not better known.

[GBG]

I'll cast another vote for Paul Kelly. I haven't heard anyone I like better.

[RolandTumble]

Another vote for Paul Kelly.

And can I try to get my vote for Mick Moloney counted twice http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ? One of the great things about Strings Attached is that you can hear a difference in how he approaches the mandolin & the banjo. His "Loftus Jones" knocks me out every time....

You'll find some mandolin work (though not really a lot) in the Boys of the Lough--great stuff, even without a mando.

I haven't (yet) heard any of the discs by Cafe members....

[Steve L]

There is very good mandolin , as well as bouzouki/cittern playing sprinkled throughout the career of Scotland's Battlfield Band by Ged Foley, Jamie MacMenemy, Brian McNeil and Pat Kilbride.

[Mike Crocker]

bobd...I understand what you mean about Mayor, but on the strength of his cds, lesson videos, books, and concerts I can honestly say that his approach is quite what celtic music COULD be on the mandolin. He also represents a good learning resource, and I thought that was what Kid was asking for. Mooh.

[craigtoo]

Here are my Favorites...(some repeats....)

Dan Beimborn: #Shatter the Calm # (www.celticmusic.com)
-Track 1 - Sliabh Russell / Peterbarnes / Indian Summer- #Just a great Set
(the rest is awesome too....)

Roger Landes: #Dragon Reels (mostly Zouk but some good mando tracks www.celticmusic.com)

I also really like listening to guitar players flat pick tunes! #
Paul Brady: #on the Brady, Molloy, Peoples disc has some great tunes.
Arty McGlynn: #McGlynn's Fancy

Enjoy....
craig

[Mandolin-AL]

An amasing Zook player is Pete Maccallum of SHINDIG on there CD The Rolling Waves .......... give that a listen

Mandolin-AL:cool http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Bren]

Al are you in Aberdeen?

There are some great CDs mentioned. If you can only afford one CD, and it seems cruel to pick one, then for a mando-centric, accessible CD, I would recommend Kevin McLeod's "Polbain to Oranmore". You will love the playing and tunes, will be able to play along with some, and if you're coming from a bluegrass background, it will open up a whole new world. The same could be said for just about every other artist mentioned I guess, but I'm trying to simplify things here!

I haven't heard Dan's CD, yet, but I've heard his playing and I don't think you would go wrong there either, or with Dagger Gordon's - both his are excellent. Also anything by Shetland group Hom Bru - their mando/banjo player Gary Peterson's playing stops everyone in their tracks the first time they hear it. These are all CD's where mandolin or similarly tuned instruments are dominant on every track, and a complete breath of fresh air after bluegrass immersion. However they may be mail order items.

In your local shop you may find some old Planxty albums, with Andy Irvine. Maybe even in the bargain bin. Another good place to start.

[dane]

One of my favorite Celtic mandolin CD's which hasn't been mentioned yet is Michael Kerry's "Rocky Road." This is a quiet, unflashy CD (the only player is Michael on both mandolin and backup guitar), but the musicianship on both instruments is subtle and superb. No one interested in Celtic mandolin should be without this CD.

[dane]

Oops, just noticed that Bob D did mention Kerry's CD, so consider my post just another strong vote for same.

[mad dawg]

I second Bren's recommendation for Hom #Bru -- I've got one of their CDs (purchased from musicscotland.com), and it has some very nice mando work on it.

BTW, I think Gary Peterson has a solo CD out as well -- anyone out there ever hear it?

[Mandolin-AL]

Yeah Bren im in Aberdeen mate I take it ya know of Shindig then !!!!
hehehehe
Mandolin-AL

[Bob DeVellis]

Mooh- I hear ya, man. And I agree. Simon Mayor has serious chops. It's a different "flavor" of Celtic than my main diet, but very tasty none the less.

[Mike Crocker]

Mayor himself admires Andy Irvine, Maartin Allcock, Chris Newman, and Brian Taheny, according to his introduction to interviews in the back of "New Celtic Mandolin". Pretty high praise, I'd say! He also has mentioned Dave Appolon to me, though he's not so much in the celtic realm.

Peace, Mooh.

[Dagger Gordon]

Looking back at Kid's original question, he was asking for good Celtic bands rather than mandolin players.

I think it is clear that the mandolin is not a primary instrument in Celtic bands in the way it is with bluegrass. This is almost certainly because the father of bluegrass was himself a mandolin player.

The fiddle, pipes, accordion/concertina, flute/whistle and harp seem to me to be the main action in most Celtic bands.
Add in things like guitar/bouzouki, keyboards and percussion and that would cover most of what you hear.

Often a mandolin player will actually mostly play tenor banjo, such as Barney MacKenna of the Dubliners.

The bands who normally use mandolin (as opposed to it being a fiddler or banjo player's second instrument etc) are relatively few and far between. The main ones I can think of are Planxty and Shooglenifty, both of whom I would say were essential listening. Hom Bru from Shetland have a terrific player - Gary Peterson.

To my mind, Ireland's Bothy Band (bouzouki and guitar but no mandolin) were the greatest band ever. Their first album is nearly 30 now, but if you want to start anywhere I would say start with them.

[Mike Crocker]

You're right of course.

Has anyone mentioned Lunasa, Slainte Mhath, Crucible, Crasdant, Calasaig, Natalie MacMaster, The Wrigley Sisters...? I like a lot of the east coast (Canadian) stuff, and the bands less associated with Ireland than Scotland and England. It's not that I don't love the Irish music, it's just that I like a variety.

Peace, Mooh.

[jmcgann]

Anything fiddle-centric is mando-centric in my book! Same fingering- it's bound to feel good! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Seriously- the fiddle is the king/queen of Irish music and you can't go wrong basing your mando playing on fiddle repertoire- may I suggest Michael Coleman, James Kelly, Andy McGann, Tommy Peoples for starters...

[harwilli55]

I am in absolute agreement with John, anything the fiddle plays is fair game for mando:D

Harlan

[jim_n_virginia]

Gaelic Storm is a Celtic band with a slightly rock beat, very cool sound. I bought it and listened to it until I wore it out! It is an awesome CD!

[AndrewP]

Dave Swarbrick probably rates a mention. More English than Celtic, and often on the violin, but a true genius when it comes to accompaniment.

Been thinking about getting a Hom Bru album actually. Which one do you have Bren and Mad dawg? Noticed there is a new one.

Luke Plumb of Shooglenifty has an album out - not so much a solo album as a duo. Has anyone heard it?

[Bren]

Re: Hom Bru. I wore out a tape of their first one "Obadeea", and gave myself aching wrists trying to play along with it. 20 years later I tracked down a CD version on the internet, can't remember the website. It was re-issued as a CD in 2000 on "Celtic Music" .

Their recent one - 2003 - "No' Afore Time" I came across in Virgin of all places, however there are probably better sources.

In between they made "Rowin Foula Doon" - haven't heard it but it will be good.

Gary Peterson has been the constant factor through changing personnel. On "No Afore Time" they have another good mando player, original member Davie Henry, joining Gary so it's pretty mandolicious and banjotastic throughout.

Another interesting CD: On my recent trip to Australia I picked up an A.L Lloyd compilation "The Old Bush Songs" which features Dave Swarbrick on fiddle throughout and mandolin from Andy Seagroatt (?) and American folklorist Ralph Rinzler. An interesting hybrid of Celtic, Anglo-Australian and American old-timey styles to accompany what would have been originally mostly unaccompanied songs.

Hey stop press - Hom Bru's got a website. No' afore time an' a'. Hom Bru (http://www.hombru.co.uk/)

[jmcgann]

Hom Bru! Saw them in Shetland in 1986- Gary and Davie are both excellent!!!

[danb]

Hom Bru are favorites of mine too, in case I didn't already mention that hundreds of times. Gary Peterson's ornaments on mandolin tend to make jaws come unhinged. I've heard a lot of hot Irish tenor banjo players who come over to mandolin and don't pick up the extra dynamics and chording/tone you can get from it, but Gary is the full package. You can also hear a couple cuts from Hom Bru on the "The Shetland Sessions" Vol I & II, which I also love for "The rest of the stuff on there".

"Obadeea", eh? I don't have that one. I have Rowin Foula Doon and No Afore Time (both great, love the singing too). I'll add that to my list of things to get now!

Shetland stuff is quite cool, not often mentioned. Shetland settings of tunes tend to have some of the bouncy dynamics that cross over midway between what's normally tradiationally though of as Scottish and Cape Breton music (ie you could grossly oversimplify that a Shetland fiddler sounds midway between a Highland Piper and Natalie MacMaster). There's still a very strong connection with the dancing scene over there, so you get those foot-tappers like you do from Cape Breton music as well. Lovely, Lovely stuff. Everyone should have a stack of Aly Bain and Shetland fiddlers in their collections http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Padraig]

Check out any Dubliners recordings. Barney McKenna and John Sheahan duet a number of times and Barney is a great mandolin player as well as banjoist.

Also The Voyage of St Brendan by Christy Moore featuring Andy Irvine,it is truly lovely. Its on the album called Ordinary Man

[steve V. johnson]

I'd recommend albums by the band Patrick Street, the later ones, "Made in Cork," "Corner Boys," "Live," "Street Life."

stv

[Dagger Gordon]

Hey Dan,

Are you still planning the Shetland Folk Festival?

[Martin Jonas]

I'm wondering too what would be the best place to start in looking to build a celtic repertoire. #What are the tunes I should start with? #Is there a link to a thread where this has already been discussed? #I met #a bodhran player at a bluegrass jamboree and would like to expand into some celtic tunes.
The discussion in this thread has so far centred on recordings, rather than on which tunes work well on mando. Personally, I find that most Irish fiddle tunes work well, but in particular the O'Carolan repertoire is very satisfying: these were written for the harp, so the plucking sound of the mando is a natural match. I play Lord Inchiquin, Planxty Irwin and Eleanor Plunkett a lot. These are relatively slow tunes, for faster material, any dance tune is fair game. Irish Washerwoman, say, is as good a place to start as any. Many of the bluegrass fiddle standard are really Irish tunes anyway and change genre with a bit different arrangement and accentuation quite naturally.

A good place for a basic repertoire of Irish and Scottish tunes is at Nigel Gatherer's page (http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/tunes/tab.html) and of course there's lots of Celtic tunes at Co-mando.

Martin

[danb]

Dagger: yes might do, still working out details. When are you heading over?

[Dagger Gordon]

No I won't be going. I've got some gigs around then.

I've only ever been to it once, in 1981. I think they then moved it to an earlier date to accommodate the lambing, which is later up there than elsewhere. That meant it was in the middle of my own lambing (which I'm doing at the moment), so I've never been back. I think it might be later again this year.

The craic is to get the boat from Aberdeen when all the artistes are going over. There was a mega-session on the ferry all night when I did it.

The only trouble is that Shetland is an absurdly expensive place to get in and out of. With all the gigs, dances, booze etc it makes for a dear trip.
Best to go to the gigs out in the country (I think they lay on buses). Fantastic. Concert, followed by a Shetland supper and a dance. They love to dance up there.

My guess would be to get an Easy Jet cheap flight from Luton to Aberdeen in your case and get the ferry.

E-mail me at home for further chat on this subject.

[POB]

I'd thoroughly recommend the most recent album by the Josephine Marsh Band. It's called "I Can Hear You Smiling" and features the rather excellent mandolin playing of Declan Corey (formerly of Lia Luachra).

[Staramouche]

How bout a toss to the Pogues! A friend sent me "Live at the Town and Country" on DVD and it starts out with a mando solo...wore a groove in it within a week...plus the songs are funny and fun!
I don't know what happened to the players, but I couldn't see a Celtic rep started without those guys!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Joe

[yoods]

"The New England-based guitarist David Surette is a great Celtic mandolin player. I have his album 'Back Roads', which I think is excellent, and I simply can't understand why he is not better known." Dagger Gordon

I am late to this thread but I want to add to Dragger's comment with a big right-on! New Hampshire's David Surette is one excellent mando (and Celtic guitar) player. David is a much in demand session player and has recorded on many other artists CDs over the years. #He also is the head of the Folk Department at the Concord, NH Community Music School. He is an excellent teacher and just an all around nice guy.

The excellent Back Roads CD you mention came out 11 years ago (and a number of those tracts were first issued on a tape recording that came out in the late 1980's). He of course has been playing ever since and has just gotten better. Besides his solo work, and playing with his wife, folk singer Susie Burke, he plays mando, guitar, and bouzouki with a number of groups playing various styles of acoustic music, one of which is one of my favorites, the contra dance band Airdance.

For anyone who wants to hear outstanding, expressive mandolin (and guitar) playing with one of the best dance fiddlers around (Rodney Miller) with excellent backing by piano, bass and percussion, check out either of Airdance’s CD's on the Great Meadows (http://www.greatmeadowmusic.com/miller.html) label. If you want to take a gamble and want to check out just one recording, get their second CD that came out last year, Flying on Home. I am still not tried of listening to it. As Britain's Folk Roots magazine said of their first release, "It's extremely rare to find a band that can make dance music so great to listen to without losing some dance ability, and this lot succeed wonderfully."

David has a new web site where you can learn more about him and get his Back Roads CD as well as his solo Celtic guitar CD, Trip to Kemper, and other recordings. The address is www.burkesurette.com (http://www.burkesurette.com/) .



Yes, I am a long-time fan, and agree, with you Dagger, he is one fine player. Please check him out if you don’t know him. he is special. Cheers. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[whistler]

Seamus Egan, as well as being a virtuoso flute player and piper, is a fantastic mandolin player. I don't have any recordings of his playing, but I once heard a track on one of Solas's albums featuring him on mandolin.

Denis Cahill is also excellent mandolin player. I don't know of any solo recordings of him - I've heard him a couple of times in sessions. I think some of his recordings with Martin Hayes feature mandolin.

[SandyBarRanch]

I noticed the roiginal question was about how to build up a repertoire - I recently got the Homespun book book that comes w/ CD, can't remember the exact title now, and for some reason it's not coming up on a search of their site. It's a great book, w/ over a hundred tunes, sheet music & CD, I'm emjoying it. Excellent way to build your repertoire. If you're interested email me and I'll get you the specifics mando@sandybar.com

[mad dawg]

I just gave several Dervish CDs a few listens again, and the interplay between the Mandola and Zouk are a blast. I especially enjoy the way these instruments weave their rythmic work and countermelodies along with the melody instruments and voice in many cuts on their CDs. (I think alot of how the Mandola is used can apply to the Mandolin -- or at least I am going to try it on my 10-string.)