Catania

[Jim Garber]

I have been noticing quite a number of bowlback mandolins made in Catania (Sicily). Are these sort of lower end instruments or were there some outstanding makers there as well. Was this at one time a center of mandolin making, similar to Mirecourt in France and Mittenwald in Germany?

One thing I notice is that most have the maker's mark branded on the table, for some reason.

Jim

[pklima]

Catania still is a center of lutherie... that's where all those Musikalia instruments are from. I'm not aware of any really outstanding makers from there, but some of the Puglisi pieces look and supposedly are pretty good... Plamen likes his. You're correct that a stamp on the soundboard is a good indicator of Catanese origin (Cataneseness?)

I might buy a big Catanese liuto someday...

[etbarbaric]

Hi Jim,

While there are certainly some less impressive Catanese instruments (as with Neapolitan instruments) there are certainly some of better quality to be found. #I have a reasonably nice instrument by one Carmelo from 1955(!) #I've seen some nicely ornamented instruments from this same maker... some have commanded relatively high prices.

My own Carmelo is rather loosely based on a Roman model (dragon scratch-guard and all) though with a long/modern scale and a wider fingerboard. #I will probably sell this instrument soon so maybe I'll take some photos.

Eric

ps - My Carmelo has no brand on the soundboard.

pps - Be careful... you don't want to anger the Sicilians! #:-)

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hello,

Yes, you all have the right impressions - mark branded, nice inlays and relatively nice quality. The shape and the construction are also very similar even identical. All of these things are common for the most luthiers in Catania (or were at least) so we could speak about Catania`s luthiery school. Of course, it`s not quite distinctive school. There are a lot of common things with the mandolin builders from Neapol. They were and still are a lot of musical instrument builders in Catania. The general conclusion should be - the mandolins of Catania are middle class. It`s rather mass production of satisfying quality, than something extraordinary or outstanding. Of course, it depends from the instrument itself, even when the instruments are made from the same luthier they could be very different. I`m sure the other fellows will also contribute to this thread providing more informations about other luthiers and mandolins from Catania - Alex (NL) and Alex (CZ). :-)

Puglisi... well I`m still looking for informations, although I already have collected a lot of interesting facts. When I finish my semi-scientific research, I`ll post it here with pictures.
Peter is right. I like my Puglisi, not just because it`s my Puglisi, but because it has pretty nice sound (a lot of people here could confirm that).

Have a nice weekend,
Plamen

[vkioulaphides]

I have heard Plami's Puglisi —well, at least on record, not live (yet)— and can attest that it sounds very nice. Of course, that has much more to do with the fine quality of Plamen's playing, not just the instument. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

One thing that has downgraded the "public impression" of these Catanese instruments is their very abundance and the trend of mass-production luthieries to cater to tourists and their uncritical tastes.

I have ranted and raved elsewhere about the equivalent (i.e. equally worthless) bouzoukis one can get in the tourist district, the old city of Athens beneath the Acropolis, and I think that the same applies to many (but certainly not all) Catanese instruments. I can say no more on this.

While I am no expert, there seems to be a more, ehm... portly, stout figure to these Sicilians, plus a tendency to ornament in profusion, especially with motley marquetry. Then again, I could not and would not slander the Sicilians. If all Italians are our cousins, Sicilians in particular are really, truly frati-cugini, "brother-cousins", blood-cousins in the first degree. Hence, that is, a degree of, ehm... —how should I put it?— "divine madness". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Alekos]

I must agree with Plami; really the Catanese mandolins are very simmilar in shapes, inlaying, etc.. My mando was made by A.Mirone and I consider it as a middle class; it has nice sound but I'm sure, there are better bowlbacks. Anyway the Catania was really a place of mass mandolin production(I hope you understand)..

[mandolinoman]

I have 2 bowl-back mandolins. One is made in Catania, Sicily and the other is made in Athens, Greece. For a few years, I started to realize that even in Catania, Sicily, besides Greece, make Greek bouzoukis as well as bowl-back mandolins. Before the Greek bouzoukis that were invented in the 1920s, the mandolins were played. Still, it is great that in Greece, they still make bowl-back mandolins, besides the Greek bouzoukis. From what I heard about the bowl-back mandolins in Italy, they are better made in Catania than in Naples, Italy. I enjoy playing Southern Italian and Sicilian folklore music and some Greek folk music.

Best Regards

George

[Jim Garber]

Speaking of folklore -- Sicily always seemed to be one of those seriously interesting places, a real crossroads of cultures due to the trade routes, etc. George, do you know of good recordings of the music of Sicily that translates well for the mandolin?

Jim

[etbarbaric]

Here's my Carmelo (1955) from Catania... just for fun

Eric

[etbarbaric]

Here's a view of the fluted back. Notice how the fluting ends just shy of the end-clasp and echos its outline. Though you can't see it from this shot, the same effect is done near the neck joint.

Eric

[Jim Garber]

Here is a much later 1974 Carmelo (http://www.georginamusic.com/carmelo.htm) mandolin. Either this is a much less expensive model than Eric's or else their aesthetic went downhill. Eric's looks like a nice, well-constructed instrument.

Jim

[etbarbaric]

Yeah... everything went downhill in the 70s... :-)

Eric

[vkioulaphides]

Well, in a sense, these two Catanese instruments are really apples and oranges: One apes some Embergheresque traits, the other... oh, who knows?

And yes: Sicily is a most miraculous place and ever the cultural crucible! Imagine: Why do you think we are all posting our thoughts on the Café in this curious, arbitrary semiography we all know as the "Roman" alphabet?

A simple, direct, historical continuum: After the so-called "Linear A" (still not deciphered) and the subsequent "Linear B" semiography (fully deciphered by now) of early Greek (i.e. Bronze-Age), the Greeks adopted the Phoenician alphabet for their own language. As known, the Phoenicians were a seafaring, Semitic people from present-day Syria, plus/minus some latitude on either end; hence the "alef-bet" nomenclature, common to Hebrew, Aramaic, et al. Phoenicians and Greeks had been crossing paths for ages, primarily in Cyprus, Crete, and throughout the Aegean.

By the 10th century B.C., the alphabet is universally, if not uniformly in use among Greeks. During the 8th century, the citizens of Halkis in Euboea establish their first and most important colony of Taras, in the homonymous gulf, present day Taranto (the town and/or the gulf). They bring along their own variant of the Greek, post-Phoenician alphabet, which they initially use for Greek, and soon thereafter for the local idiom.

Fast forward to the 4th century: The Greeks (in usual infighting) essentially bleed each other to death, during the second phase of the Peloponnesian War, fighting each other in Sicily— all losers, no winners: The Athenian expedition is annihilated, the Spartans have nothing other to show for their "victory" than a state of total, continuous war, where hunger and disease kill more soldiers that actual battle.


By the 3rd century B.C., the Romans are sowing the seeds of their future empire by first running over the Greek cities of Sicily and Southern Italy, e.g. Syracuse, Camarina, Messina, Taras, Pegea, Region, et al. Amongst the many, valuable items they take home —and subsequently spread all over the lands of your great-great-great-great-grandparents, my friends— is this curious ABC we use today, millennia later, to voice our mando-thoughts. Thank Sicily!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Plamen Ivanov]

First of all I would like to say "Hi" and welcome George Venetsanakos on the Board!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Victor, thanks for the compliment for my playing and much more thank you for the short historical retrospection. I remember most of this facts. Do I remember well, that it was also Archimed who was born in Syracuse and that he had something to do with these battles - the mirror systems, burning enemy`s ships? What a shame - I`m not so old, but I already forgot a lot of things. Thank God, we have here the Mandolin Cafe distance learning Academy!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Good luck, friends!

P.S. I`m off topic anyway, so I would like to tell you, that I`m going to visit the concert of Yuri Bashmet wednesday evening. Should be great!!!

[Bob A]

Mirrors to burn ships? I was reading about orbital mirrors which could be used to warm planetary surfaces in order tp assist in creating a human-habitable environment. Amusing to think the idea's been around that long. Also worth noting the trickle-down of military tech to civilian purposes, though two millenia is a mighty slow trickle.

Has the exact composition of Greek Fire been documented, speaking of miltech?

[vkioulaphides]

Ha, ha... apples and oranges, again!

Yes, Plamen, Archimedes DID in fact devise reflectors, large concave shields, shined, polished and lubricated to the max, so as to burn the sails of enemy ships. If you take a look at a map of Syracuse, with its smaller, outer harbor, and the large, inner one, you can see how physically feasible it was to set such reflectors on the Epipolai Heights, point them down to the harbor, and set ANYthing on fire by mere concentration/focusing of solar energy on any given point. And, as well known, Archimedes was for a time in the service of the tyrant of Syracuse.

The hygron pyr of the Byzantines that Bob speaks of, on the other hand, was a liquid that would self-ignite upon contact with oxygen (and, I presume a little help from a flint-like incendiary devise). The Byzantines, therefore, would load this liquid on large, bellows-powered spray guns, pointing at the straits of Bosporus, and provided with an ignition-device at the mouth of the barrel. Upon the approach of enemies, they would spray a thick mist of this liquid at them, which would immediately ignite and rain down on the invading fleet's ships with devastating effect.

Every weapon, of course, only engenders its own obsolescence: Liquid has only so much range. Hardly a deterrent to the Ottoman Turks who, having set up camp on the opposite side of the straits (and therefore no longer fighting from ships but from land), could afford to wait in (theoretical) perpetuity, with their huge-caliber, Hungarian-built cannons chipping away at Constantinople's fortress. The Middle Ages were over.

Back to mando-content: Welcome to the Café, George. Might I ask: Who built your Greek mando? How old is it? Can you post a picture or two? Kalos órises. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Eugene]

Eric, yours looks far finer than anything else I've seen from the Carmelo shop, but I don't think I've seen any other pre-1960s Carmelos. #What Carmelo calls to my mind are garish images of bright green plastic inlay and an extavagent taste for excessively floral decor.

I tend to like some of the other sentiments expressed above. #The better Sicilian mandolins tend to favor nice sounding, working-class instruments with a pracitcal, "earthy" sense of decor (like Plamen's beautifully voiced Puglisi). #The lesser ones came from the Carmelo shop after the late 1960s!

[etbarbaric]

Hi Eugene, thanks. I wish I had grabbed some images, but Mandolin Brothers sold a couple of Carmelos a year or so ago. I remember them being rather nice and certainly above the level of green plastic inlay (yes... I've seen those too... eek!). Though one was a bowl-back (if I remember), the other was a flat-backed instrument that was quite tastefully and ornately decorated in pearl and other traditional materials. They were not cheap, but then nothing at Mandolin Brothers is...

Eric

[mandolinoman]

Hi, Victor and Plamen,

Thank you once more for welcoming me to the mandolin cafe.

Best Regards,

George

[mandolinoman]

To Victor and Plamen and to the mandolin fans,

Here is my bowl-back mandolin that is made in Greece. I love the design a lot.

Best Regards,

George

[mandolinoman]

Again, to Victor and Plamen and to the mandolin fans,

The back side of my Greek-made bowl-back mandolin.

Again, best regards,

George

[vkioulaphides]

Indeed. Much like one, owned by another Café denizen, creation of one of my favorite Greek luthiers, Pavlos Kevorkian.

[vkioulaphides]

And front. You will notice, of course, that most Greek luthiers (Spourdalakis and —occasionally— Tsakirian excepted) buy their inlays from the same, few sources. Pavlos' strong point is the impeccable setup with which he delivers his babies (on related woes, pls. read my other rants and raves elsewhere).

[mandolinoman]

Victor,

The back side of the Greek-made mandolin is very beautiful. Does Pavlos Kervokian have a website?

Best Regards,

George

[mandolinoman]

Victor,

Now I received a photo of the front of the Greek-made mandolin. It is so beautiful. I have to say that your mandolin and mine are almost the same.

Again, best regards,

George

[vkioulaphides]

The back is walnut, as on yours, George. But Pavlos, who is a true Old World craftsman and runs essentially a one-man shop, takes the trouble of staining staves in symmetrical alternation, silver-grey, brownish-grey, ash-grey/black, etc.

On the flip side, he is truly of the Ooooooooold World. No website http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif In fact, his music retail store lives on the profits of the Fender amps and electric guitars he imports and sells on the local market, not on the few instruments he actually builds. Oh, well... reality, you know...

Pavlos also builds (naturally) bouzoukis, baglamades, et at. They are highly esteemed by the experts, of whom I am certainly NOT one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[vkioulaphides]

Oh, to clarify, George: This instrument is not mine; the luthier is just one of MY favorites.

[Jim Garber]

Eric:
I see on the classifieds that you are selling your Carmelo. It looks like a nice one. What is your main mandolin?

Jim

[Bill Snyder]

I thought of putting this in the Bowlbacks of note thread, but I am not sure it is noteworthy. From what little bit of the label I can see it appears to be from the 1970's.
Here (http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=3602138)is one for sale at shopgoodwill.com.

[brunello97]

Bill, Carmelo Catania instruments appear now and then on the ebay as well. Here is a link with a bit of historical information on them (mostly focusing on their guitar work):

http://www.fetishguitars.com/html/sicilia/index.html

Apparently they had quite an operation in the post war years. Plami might know something more about them.

The long and varied history of mandolin making in Sicily is certainly 'of note' to me at least, whether the instruments are modest, work-a-day pieces or more faithful copies of the high-end mainland mandolins. I tend to like the bold graphic design work of the pickguards and inlay on the Carmelo mandolins. A little 'exuberant' for others' tastes, I understand. I make no claim viz their sonic qualities. This rotating floral motif, I've seen before, perhaps on other Carmelos or on Albertinis. I like it.

Keep on eye on the Goodwill. For $58 it will probably be delightful.

Mick

[Bruce Clausen]

Back to Sicily, after a long hiatus. A little off-topic, but perhaps of interest to some of the historians here: a Carmelo Catania "cello guitar" (archtop with points) has just come up for sale locally.

https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/RARE-1940-Carmelo-Catania-mod-22-cello-guitar-OFFERS_33079685

It's not something that I'd have any desire to own, but certainly represents an interesting chapter in the company's history. Unfortunately, the owner speaks only of the rarity of the guitar, rather than its qualities as a musical instrument. (Not a word about the design, materials or sound, or even if it's in playable condition. And no asking price quoted.)

The ad includes a link to this Fetish page, giving a little background on the model. The photos there are apparently of the same instrument as in the ad:

http://www.fetishguitars.com/sicily-southern-italy/carmelo-catania/carmelo-catania-mod-22/

It's aesthetically pretty odd, even for an Italian guitar. Here are a few shots from the ad:

175434175433175435

As I said, mainly of historical interest. ;)