View Full Version : The "Hoss" - Distressed Sam Bush Model
KevinM
Mar-25-2004, 9:21am
Did anyone think of this yet? Can I get the prototype? It's either that or that new tossed-in-back-of-pickup-truck-and-drive-around-on-thirty-miles-of-dirt-road distressed "The Seriously" from PacRim.
I always had a question on The Sam Bush model. Is it from specs of the orig 1937 model or after Tut tayor and John hartford+ got their hands on it an re-graduated the top?. The Sam Bush "Burst" must be from after it was re-graduated and it was done before Sam got it. Specs from 30's, burst from 70's?
Scotti Adams
Mar-25-2004, 10:03am
..you know...I asked this question months ago and Big Joe was supposed to have gotten back to me and never did....maybe he had become distressed and forgotten...ya think? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ..I would love to know the answer...my gut feeling says its pre Tut and Norman. Although I met Jim Triggs in the mid 80's and he said he was busy studying Hoss to make copies in the future. About the same time I had gotten together with Sam and he told me the same thing...he also pointed out a few factory irregularities on Hoss..interesting...
docmarc2771
Mar-25-2004, 12:27pm
Sam Bush indicates on his 'Monroe' DVD that the Sam Bush models offered today are copies of 'Hoss' after all of the modifications made by a number of different luthiers...
Flowerpot
Mar-25-2004, 12:49pm
Really, doc? Wow, that surprises me, though I don't doubt your word.
From what I've heard on the grapevine, Hoss is graduated so thin that one would guees it would be difficult to send them out the door, graduated like that, with a lifetime warranty. Does anybody have measurements from Hoss?
Pete Martin
Mar-25-2004, 12:59pm
I have a Gibson Advanced Jumbo guitar reissue from the early 90s. After comparing it with several original AJs, it is not an exact reissue. Many things have been changed.
I suspect the new Sam Bush models are like that. My wife has a Sam Bush model and I've played Hoss a couple times, though many years before the newer models came out. While I haven't seen them side by side, my bet is the newer one has many modifications.
Hoss (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?1259)
Looks like a Tut tailpiece cover on there too..
Strado Len
Mar-25-2004, 2:19pm
I believe that I previously read (on this forum?) that the graduation of the Sam Bush top is the same as on the Fern, but that the top has been thinned on the outer perimeter. Perhaps Big Joe or Charlie can correct me if I am wrong.
docmarc2771
Mar-25-2004, 3:41pm
Flowerpot...I'm sure you're right about the details of 'Hoss'...in the DVD Sam implies, while holding a new Sam Bush, that Gibson has done a marvelous job of capturing the feel and sound of 'Hoss'...Sam doesn't go into detail about specifics...although earlier in the video he points out all of the changes made to 'Hoss' over the years including having the back removed, new graduation to the top, refinishing by Randy Wood...a couple of radius fingerboards by different luthiers...and his electronics...he also makes the point that he didn't particularly like 'Hoss' when he first heard it...it was only after all the alterations that he 'adopted' 'Hoss'...
ethanopia
Mar-25-2004, 3:57pm
I played a '37 F5 that the guys from Back Woods Music in Tenn. had a couple years ago and amazingly, even though it didn't have all the mods etc, it sounded a lot like Hoss to my ear anyway. Of Course I didn't sound like Sam but, you know what I mean, it was in the ball park.
KevinM
Mar-25-2004, 4:00pm
'37 F5s seem a lot rarer than Loars, based upon Mandolincafe traffic.
Steven Stone
Mar-25-2004, 4:20pm
[I have a Gibson Advanced Jumbo guitar reissue from the early 90s. After comparing it with several original AJs, it is not an exact reissue. Many things have been changed.]
The latest AJs (from 2002 and later) are much closer to original specs.Tuners are closer to original specs as is the neck profile. I've compared the latest AJs with several originals and even the wood grain is similar now.
mandoJeremy
Mar-26-2004, 10:51am
I want a Distressed Sam Bush Model that looks just like Hoss.
Scotti Adams
Mar-26-2004, 12:05pm
..hmm..I find it interesting that those cats from Gibson havent chimed in on this one...Im sure they could shed some light on this....
Big Joe
Mar-26-2004, 12:56pm
I'm here to chime in. I think Scotti got me right...distressed! That shows he has met me to have that knowledge http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. In essence the body is the same as the others we make. Made to Loar specs with few alterations. The neck is fashioned after Sam's. The headstock overlay and fingerboard inlay is quite typical of the 37 models. It is not historically correct in every detail to 37 Gibson mandolins. That would only produce an entire group of otherwise mediocre sounding mandolins. The idea is to replicate Sam's mandolin, not a 37 Gibson. The look is very typical of that era only better. Hope this makes things as clear as mud.
Scotti...I finally answered...kind of
Scotti Adams
Mar-26-2004, 1:08pm
..yea..but Joe...are the guts pre Tut and Norman or post....tone bars and top/back graduations?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
KevinM
Mar-26-2004, 1:17pm
Big Joe think about the distressed version - to even more closely approximate Hoss. It's be cool, and could you make it maybe just a little more affordable than the MM Distressed v.2 - could you order a distressed Sam Bush (the mandolin, that is) if you wanted one?
Scotti Adams
Mar-26-2004, 1:36pm
Made to Loar specs
..phooey http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Strado Len
Mar-26-2004, 2:49pm
The following quote is from Charlie Derrington, when he was a guest of the week on the Co-Mando list serve. #
"In a lot of ways it is real close to Hoss (at least according to Sam). The main thing we concentrated on in the developmental process was to make sure the neck size was as close to Sam's as possible. I was more than a little hesitant to make the graduations exactly like Hoss because of all of the modifications that had been done on that mandolin. It has held up just fine, but to carve an instrument that thinly and that is going to have a lifetime warranty is a little scary. So, we fell back on Loar graduations and thinned the area around the f holes to give the same appearance as Hoss. Of course, Sam was very happy with the tonal result and this is how we approached the production models."
Here is a link to the interview:
http://www.co-mando.com/resourses/CGOW/derrington.php
Scotti Adams
Mar-26-2004, 4:13pm
finally ..the answer Ive been lookin for... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Flowerpot
Mar-26-2004, 4:43pm
AHA! I knew it. To replicate Hoss, you gotta be willing to let a few tops cave in....
At the risk of sounding really stupid -- How did Sam's mandolin ever get the name "Hoss"?
mandoJeremy
Mar-26-2004, 7:08pm
I think Tony Rice dubbed it that because it certainly is a hoss. One of those wordings we use down here in the south.
levin4now
Apr-05-2004, 3:50pm
On one of my recordings of Sam in concert (a bluegrassbox recording), he goes on about "Hoss" for some time, and I believe he said it was Norman Blake's previously. He said he wanted it if he ever sold it, but eventually someone (Tut?) called him and said he had it in his shop. Most of that finish was worn off (REMOVED) prior to Sam's ownership, Sam said. He said "I'm not THAT rough on a mandolin."
This is all vaguely from memory and I just threw this in there FWIW. I just thought it was interesting. I'd be glad to review that dialog on the CD for anyone interested sometime.
At the Mandolin Brothers, I compared the Bush model to a bunch of other Gibsons, and it was by far my favorite. Part of the reason for that was that the fingerboard felt wider, which I prefer. Does that mean that the 30's Gibsons all had wider fingerboards, or was just my imagination?