Can't See The Forest for the Trees

[Okie8stringn]

I am having trouble going over a big hump with my playing and would really appreciate any help sorting out my direction. Where I am now is that I can learn and play some irish, old timey, and bluegrass fiddle tunes by listing to them or playing along with a CD. I do need to build my finger speed as I have trouble with the faster ones.

Right now I can play the mando lead notes at the top of the fretboard in the open major G,C, and D keys which restricts my learning new tunes in A, E, F, and the minors etc. I have a chord book and have learned the chords and changes in these keys as well as chords in A and E. I also have also learned tremelo and how to work in some double stops for G,C,D .
I am just starting to practice the Aonzo scales also. When I listen to a CD or play along with someone else on guitar etc. and they are in any key besides G,C, and D then I am lost on any leading with my mandolin.

First, is there a reference book or online guide that shows ALL of the basic mando scale fret positions at the top of the fretboard for any given key? Second , any teaching DVD, CD, book recomendations?

I don't read music but I'm aware that any melody can be played starting out in ANY fret position (where there is room for it). This fact alone really amazes me and I do just take off and play sometimes by starting on some fret that I don't know the note of. But then if I am playing with someone else they will may say "Hey..What ya playin in.?" and I just shrug. I won't know what key I'm in OR what notes I am actually playing. I guess my question is probably a redundant one, but I just can't see it for the trees.

So lastly, to be versatile on the mandolin will I need to actually visually memorize every fretboard finger position note for note so that I can play in all the keys up and down the fretboard?

Thanks in advance for any advise, I'm kind of stumped.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

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Bob

[Celtic Saguaro]

It would help if you'd learn some standard notation, but Hal Leonard (http://www.halleonard.com) publishes Mandolin Scale Finder Which has all the info you are looking for. #It will look a little daunting at first. #But, check the keys you know first. #Then compare them to the ones you want to learn. #You should find that you don't have to memorize nearly as much as you think. For instance you may understand that the D major scale is the same as the G major scale played one string down. But with the patterns in front you should discover all the scales are related in a similar fashion, depending on what string and what fret the scale starts on

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Don't worry about learning the whole fretboard at once. That would definitely be missing the forest. As you learn new material, look for other ways to play it, and think about which notes you start a phrase on, for example. In this way, you will start learning the notes and keys that you play in gradually. You'll find that there are many connections in music, and the more connections you make, the easier it is to play.

Cheers,
MRT

[Okie8stringn]

Thanks a bunch for the information and the link. I will keep it all in prospective and continue to have enjoyment and pleasure from this great little instrument.

ps- Sorry for all those typos in my intitial post. I was on a break at work and was in a bit of a hurry. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

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Bob

[Dfyngravity]

First things first. Learn the major scales in 1st position. Practice them ascending and descending, and atually call the name of the notes out while you are playing them. It will get them into your head a little quicker. Now the great thing about chords on the mandolin is that majority of the ones you use are movable, and by that I mean if you take a 4 finger G chord and move it up two frets you got an A.

Now, don't let minor keys get you flustered. All major keys have a relative minor. So if you are in the key of G just count to the 6th step (G1, A2, B3, C4, D5, {E6}) and you get E, that will be your relative minor (E minor). So technically speaking, in the keys of G and E minor all of the notes are the same (G: g,a,b,c,d,e,f#,g) and (Em: e,f#,g,a,b,c,d,e). Theory wise, this is true because a major scale is built in these steps (whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step) and a natural minor key is built (whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step). Might be a little too much info, but it will help you out in the long run.

Chords are a little more easy to understand. Chords are built off the I, III, and the V of that particular key. So if you are in G, the G chord is built from the G(I), B(III), and the D(V). Now if you are playing bluegrass most of the chord progressions use the I, IV and V of the Key you are in. So again in G the chords would be G(I), C(IV), and D(V). Below I have helped you out a little

I, IV, V progessions:
Key of G chords: G, C, D
Key of A chords: A, D, E
Key of B chords: B, E, F#
Key of C chords: C, F, G
Key of D chords: D, G, A
Key of E chords: E, A, B
Key of F chords: F, Bb, C

Major scales and their relative minors
G/Em: g,a,b,c,d,e,f#,g / e,f3,g,a,b,c,d,e
A/f#m: a,b,c#,d,e,f#,g#,a / f#,g#,a,b,c#,d,e,f#
B/G#m: b,c#,d#,e,f#,g#,a#,b / g#,a#,b,c#,d#,e,f#,g#
C/Am: c,d,e,f,g,a,b,c / a,b,c,d,e,f,g,a
D/Bm: d,e,f#,g,a,b,c#,d / b,c#,d,e,f#,g,a,b
E/C#m: e,f#,g#,a,b,c#,d#,e / c#,d#,e,f#,g#,a,b,c#
F/Dm: f,g,a,bflat,c,d,e,f/ d,e,f,g,a,bflat,c,d

This should get you started, or atleast confussed.

[steve in tampa]

This has been a great help

http://mandozine.com/resources/Practice-Sheets.pdf

[fiddle5]

Hi Okie8stringn,

Instead of looking for the forest, its easier to see one tree at a time. There are many scales and chords, but thats not to say that they are all usefull. If you're trying to see the numbering patterns in Tableture, you have a difficult road in front of you. Standard Notation is a much more useful and visual representation of this, but each to thier own. Scales are simply sets of tone intervals, with associated chords. The best learning tool for these associations is the Circle of Fifths, not to mention that your mando is tuned in fifths also. It represents all the scales in order of sharps and flats, as well as directing you to the relevant chords and minor scales. There are many web sites with many explanations of the circle of fifths. At first it can seem puzzling, but all the peices do fit together to make a complete picture, undoubtably the picture your looking for. This is something that every musician needs to , or should know.

http://www.carolinaclassical.com/scales/circle.html


mike[B]