Two Kinds of Music

[jaco]

Duke Ellington once said there are two kinds of music, good and bad. I personally agree, but a friend of mine says music by its' very definition must be good. I find this hard to swallow. When I hear of a certain form of music which preaches
violence, misogeny, rape, murder and mayhem I can't possibly call it "good". Then we get in to the just plain horrible stuff that permeates the airwaves and I can't help think of the decline and fall of western civilization.What do you you guys and gals think?

[otterly2k]

I dunno, jaco-
I personally abhor art that promotes violence, misogyny, etc. But there's a lot of music that was once called "horrible", that is now called "classic". And it wouldn't be the first time that "horrible" music was seen as a precursor to the fall of western civilization. Didn't they once say that about rock and roll? jazz?

I like to think that there is now and has always been "drek" (yiddish for junk) out there, but it's the good stuff that survives beyond its 15 min. of fame. Even the good stuff from forms that have also included really offensive material.
There will always be those who push the envelope of propriety in order to transgress and think themselves radical (even though violence and misogyny are HARDLY new and different!). But I don't think it makes sense to dismiss entire genres of music b/c of their antics.

[John Rosett]

to me, there are two kinds of music. the kind that's made for the love of music (good), and the kind that's made for the love of money(bad). this doesn't mean that i think that musicians shouldn't make money and be successful-far from it- but there's a whole lot of music that's manufactured and promoted by corporate entities that ONLY care about how many "units" they sell.

[bjc]

At one time almost all "new" music was considered awful, evil or a bad influence.

And the definition of music (as I learned it) is: organized patterns of sound and silence.
So, if you were to plan to push a prepared piano down a flight of stairs up top of people who perform music which preaches violence, misogyny, rape, murder and mayhem, it could be called a song!!!

[otterly2k]

rofl, brian!

and I like your points too, mandorose

[bjc]

and about Mandoroses "unit" comment: I worked at a record store that hosted many famous and soon to be famous bands. This PR rep comes in there and says to the band: "OK, guys we have a chance to move a lot of units. There are a lot of kids down there willing to buys a lot of product..so...blah, blah, blah..." And the singer looked the guy square in the eye and said "Unit! Product? This is OUR (insert dirty word here) life man...this ain't no (reinsert bad word) UNIT..."
The PR guy look lost...

[357mag]

I guess all music is good, as long as its not noise. Whenever music transcends what ever music transcends to become noise, than Its no longer music. Sorta like what happens when I play the mandolin. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[mandopete]

One question...why comment on music you don't like? #Who cares?

I guess that's two questions http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[johnwalser]

The first time I heard "rap music" I declared loudly to my wife "That #rap won't be around very long". I was wrong and have since seen a gradual degrading of movies, TV and computer games that occupy so much of the younger generation's time. There are still some fine movies, music and TV shows around, but they are no longer what's in and suffer financially. In a sane world, Audra McDonald and Rhonda Vincent & the Rage would be filling Stadiums and not a bunch of no talent lip syncers. Much of this seems to be because of the general dumbing down of America, but this is certainly not the forum to discuss what lies ahead. I will continue to pluck my Gerswin, Porter, Rodgers, Beatles and all my musical friends with the time I have left.
John

[Dolamon]

Hmmh - About the time Duke made that quote...Cab Calloway recorded both Minnie the Moocher and the Reeferman. (Both are thought to be the grand parents of rap) Fashions change #and what a lot of folks do is try to interpret what they are hearing on the street - in their home, or in the back alleys of urban america. Unfortunately, not many of the younger rappers are very skilled or eloquent in their choice of words or content. But, they are both trying to make a statement and a living at the same time (which is an alternative 'out' for a general underclass). To be quite honest ... a lot of these 'musicians' are startlingly emotional and really quite capable of putting their soul on their sleeve when they perform (if you can tolerate translating some of it). #

That doesn't mean I like all Rap or Hip hop OH NO!!! But some performers in the Sub Genre of 'Acid Jazz' - absolutely knock my socks off. Ten years ago - the Fugees took my breath away with their clarity and passion. Today - Black Eyed Peas, with their conscious bow to both L.S.Weiss and Bach (via #Sting) are both jaw dropping performers and composers. What surprises me is on the latest Monkey Business album - the last five cuts are in excess of five minutes long. This guarantees that the short attention span theatre we live in won't expose the real power of this group to the radio listening masses. If you can find a cut of 'Union' by B.E.P. - you might be surprised by the updated 'Baroque' Rap they've created. (Have you heard a four piece group do a seven piece counterpoint composition?)

Angry, misogonystic, violent - not all rapsters move to that beat. Whether I'll ever figure out the indie back beat on a mandola is irrelevant. But I'll at least try to keep an open mind to all kinds of music - the good, the bad and even the ugly.

[mandopete]

Angry, misogonystic, violent - not all rapsters move to that beat.
Oh, I thought we were talking about Bluegrass!

[chovie d]

what is good? what is bad? Can music no one ever hears be bad or good? If poorly played music is bad, is a childs music "bad"? Is Metallica bad cause we blast it at Iraqi Insurgents? Is Wagner bad cause it was adolf's fave? Does content deternmine if music is good or bad, and if so could instrumental music ever be good or bad? etc. etc Its like philosophy 101....I like Duke alot and think he was a smart guy, but that statements a little too simplistic. Worse still if you apply it in broad strokes such as "rap is bad music". there is good rap (trust me there is...) and bad rap (im sure youve heard some if you own a TV). in terms of unethical content, we've always had that in all forms of music as some above have stated...country lyrics have alot of violence drugs and mysogny (and thats just on side one of Whiskey Bent and Hell Bound!). Personally I love rap and respect it as a true and unique artform, everybit as much as I respect Coltrane or Willie Nelson or Shostackovich or whatever is just good original music. I like when people say it takes no talent, the same way they would look at a minimalist painting in a museum and mumble "my 6 year old daughter coulda painted that". Hey its all good, if you dont like it dont listen, dont buy the albums and most of all try not to have the sound on when the Taco Bell featuring MC Hammer in parachute pants commercial comes on...I dont think you can call it "bad" music or anything else "bad" music for that matter tho.

I prefer Neil Youngs equally overgeneralized dichotomy: "There are two types of music, the Stones and the Beatles, and the Stones are my favorite band."

[Ted Eschliman]

When I was a music major in college in the 70s, I put myself through school working as an apprentice meat-cutter (meaning I scrubbed bloody counters & floors most of the time). The crew loved country & western music, and I was pretty much forced to listen to it on the radio the whole time I worked there.

I would bring my college textbooks to study during my coffee breaks, and one day, one of them slipped out while being placed in my locker. Our meatwrapper looked at the cover and read out loud, “Donald Grout. A History of Western Music.”

“Great!” she exclaims, “A college education is not being wasted on you, they’re teaching you about Country Music. Do they they have anything on Conway Twitty?”

Topic here, "two" kinds of music? I used to kid them I like BOTH kinds of music.

Country AND Western…

[Katie]

If I'm going to categorize music like that, I'll say there are two kinds of music...music that suceeds and music that doesn't/ There's also music I like and music I don't. To categorize into good and bad you have to define good and bad, and sometimes narrow it down to one genre. Good fiddletunes are not good by classical stardards. A good piano sonata does not make good poprock.
*^_^*
Katie

[fiddle5]

Some music is relaxing and soothes the soul, other music is over-agressive and agitating, while there is a grey area in the middle. I find traditional and celtic music to be more enjoyable, and if I want agitation, I'll stay at work longer. I can't listen to rap music at all, under any circumstance.

[Elliot Luber]

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder, but it's easiest to find in the presentation of artists who are devoted to their craft, who use their art to reflect the human condition and who strike a familiar chord in all of us. Bad music is music that for reasons of commerciality, etc., compromises its values so that it hits our ears as either hollow or insincere. What sounded great to me in 1980 is downright embarassing in 2005. Relevance is fleeting. Art is subjective.

[Michael H Geimer]

Sturgeon's Law:
Ninety percent of anything is ****

Now as far as violence, misogyny, drug use, murder, vice, vice, vice ...
I think it's awful that The Soprano's is a "critically acclaimed" show. No matter how well directed it might be, I think the glamorization of organized crime (gangs), and premeditated murder (hits), is in *very poor* taste.

Same goes with any piece of art ... the genre or audience really shouldn't matter. I wish we all could consistently shun the evil and always praise the good. (but we don't)

* * *

Hey Joe, just where *are* you going with that gun in your hand?

[Nick Triesch]

I'm 55 years old and I'm from the era of Clapton, Cream, The Who, Jefferson Airplane, The Stones, The Doors. A time of sex, drugs and rock and roll. What a time! What music! I would not trade it for anything. Out of sight. Nick

[glauber]

I always say there are two kinds of people in this world: those who believe there are two kinds of people and those who don't!

[Avi Ziv]

There are also three kinds of musicians in this world:

those who can count and those who can't

[Michael H Geimer]

Everyone loves The Talking Heads ...

... but that Billy the Bass thing played some *awfully bad* music. ("Take me to the river ... Drop me in the water")

But who knows, maybe Billy's 'unique interpretation' of the song moved more 'product' than the Head's version? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Dan Adams]

To quote the 'Blues Brother's movie; or sort of: " We play kinds of music, "Country and Western!" Dan