View Full Version : Touch
I haven't seen this mentioned. But in electric and classical guitar much discussion is given to light touch, yet I don't see that offered up here. Is there a reason or did I miss the posts?
Masters of Light Touch Mandolin:
Chris Thile
Bobby Clark
Mike Marshall
ShaneJ
Nov-29-2005, 4:54pm
Masters of Reach Out & Touch mandolin:
Bill Monroe
Mike Compton
Ricky Skaggs
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mandolin123
Nov-30-2005, 10:28pm
To quote Bill Monroe "whip it like a mule"
John Flynn
Nov-30-2005, 10:38pm
To quote Devo "whip it good!"
To quote Betty Crocker "Whip until smooth!"
Pete Martin
Dec-01-2005, 12:50pm
I haven't seen this mentioned. But in electric and classical guitar much discussion is given to light touch, yet I don't see that offered up here. Is there a reason or did I miss the posts?
The light touch should definitely be developed in the left hand, I have a feeling that's what was being refered to in this quote. #
A good way to help develop this is play tunes just barely touching the strings, so you get a muted note, not a clean one. #Very gradually add more pressure until you just get a clean note, NO MORE. #You'll find the left hand works much easier and will do more of what you want it to do.
In the right hand use just enough force to give what you want, no excess. #You find better results. #
To achieve this more relaxed playing, you must practice playing relaxed, make it a regular thing you do, over a long period of time. #Most folks grab the pick and the neck way too hard and do that all the time. #It is no wonder when they get to a jam they "tighten up". #They have practiced that way!
earthsave
Dec-01-2005, 12:58pm
Adam Steffey plays smooth, which I would associate with light touch.
The light left hand touch has been difficult for me. On guitar, I developed a fairly light and efficient left hand, but when I play the mando this way I get too much buzzing. I especially notice it when I listen to recordings of myself. I get a much clearer, cleaner tone when I use a lot more left hand finger pressure, but I know this isn't as efficient and my left hand gets tired and sore quickly.
Brad B.
Amen, Pete. #That is my personal demon. These days, I'm generally OK practicing by myself but when I'm in a group I tighten up #and lose all fexibility (as well as my mind). #I think it might also be reaction to the volume of other instruments - I'm used to playing electric instruments and I forget that my mando is much louder in front of me than what I'm hearing; so I try to play louder than I really need to. #Does that make sense?
sunburst
Dec-01-2005, 2:52pm
Some say it's better to learn on an instrument that is poorly set up, so that you develop finger strength. (Honest. People say that.)
I say that's bull ----! You're developing a gorilla grip, and will have to un-learn that in order to play with a light touch.
Ever notice how hard some older people slam the doors on your new car? That's what it took to close a car door when they learned. Old habits die hard.
A good neck with a good fret job and a good set-up will make it easier to play lightly without buzzes, and will help the student learn to play without developing the bad habit of pressing down too hard.
If you have trouble playing cleanly with a light touch on the mandolin, be sure it is well set up. That might help you clean up your playing.
Yes, I am speaking of the fret board hand. I've seen lots of discussion about volume, but little about touch. Coming from electric guitar and classical light touch is essential and I've struggled with it on mando...
Ken Sager
Dec-01-2005, 4:34pm
Pete said it best above, use just enough force to get a clean tone and NO MORE. A strong left hand doesn't translate to louder notes, or faster playing. It translates to deeper fret grooves and a tired hand. You can see tension in left hands from fretting harder than necessary, and you don't see any benefit from it.
Efficient use of left hand strength turns into speed, range, and longevity.
Love to all,
Ken
Avi Ziv
Dec-01-2005, 5:00pm
I remember one of the first mandolin lessons with Barry Mitterhoff. He had me sound a note and then progressingly reduce the force I was using in my left-hand fingers (while picking) until there was no longer a solid sound coming out. I was encourage to do that for a while and sort of "memorize" the minimal force needed. I found out that I had been wasting a ton of energy and not getting anything musical in return. I still do these little exercises once in a while. It's quite revealing. Later on I learned that I could sustain termolo much longer and more expressively if I did it with a relaxed right hand, rather than grip hard on the pick and tighten up the right hand. These days I play Irish music which calls for many fast triplets and relaxation is key for that too.
Avi
RolandTumble
Dec-01-2005, 5:45pm
I've found that--for me, at least--an easy way to monitor this is to check the tension level in your left thumb. If the thumb is tense, the rest of the hand is, too. If the thumb is relaxed, the rest of the hand can't be tense.
John Zimm
Dec-01-2005, 8:02pm
I don't know if the original post refers to right-hand technique, but I have actually been working on this. I played classical guitar for years before getting a mandolin, and I loved how Segovia and Parkening and others would play with the coloring of a tune by moving closer to the bridge or the fretboard. It has been fun, getting that more metallic tone on the mandolin when I'm nearing the end of Bach's prelude from the 1st cello suite. I don't play bluegrass so I am not sure how this sort of right hand technique would come into play, but with classical pieces I have had results that sound great to my ear.
-John.
John Zimm
Dec-01-2005, 8:04pm
Yes, I am speaking of the fret board hand. I've seen lots of discussion about volume, but little about touch. Coming from electric guitar and classical light touch is essential and I've struggled with it on mando...
Oop, I should have read the whole discussion before commenting.
I think the majority of us struggle with this from time to time. What I have noticed when I play or practice is that it sometimes takes cognitive effort not to press the strings really hard. I usually take it as a sign that I don't know the piece well enough, but that could just be me.
-John.
Dfyngravity
Dec-01-2005, 11:52pm
light touch in the left hand is a good way to speed up the left hand. I can tell you know if you want Thile like touch and you have medium to high action you just ain't gonna do it. My action, like Thile's is practically laying on the fingerboard. But to do this you must have an arrow straight neck and you need to neck angle pitched forward a bit to allow for this. But you really have to look at what style you are wanting to play. If you want the good loud driving bluegrass than you don't want to have a super low action. Many "bluegrass" mandolin player like medium to high action. That is what helps them get good volume and they really can beat the strings and get great chops. If you do that on a mandolin like Thile's you would get a lot of string slap on the fingerbaord like a slap bass(no what what you think, that's no usually a good thing). But if you like to play jazz, classical or newgrass(Grisman, Thile, Marshall like stuff) than a low action is great. Usually your pick stroke is fairly light too and you don't have the hard driving chop either. You might say, well Thile has a great chop, yes he does but he uses a pickup so he doesn't have to hit it hard. I get a great chop out of my mandolin, but it's just not that loud.
But anyways, a light touch is a good thing you have, if you want to have it. Just lower that action down a bit, if you can.
steve in tampa
Dec-02-2005, 7:52am
One thing I have not seen mentioned in all this is that as the force exerted on the strings from the right hand increases, so must the force exerted by the left hand. Differention from this basic principle can lead to some interesting effects, like a muffled chop. Fun to play around with while running scales to put different emphasis on notesand dynamics in passages. Comes in handy when improvising.
Peter Hackman
Dec-02-2005, 8:51am
I guess I have found the appropriate amount of
left hand pressure, as I start to miss notes whenever
I raise the action a bit. Then, of course, I tend
to tense up a bit when recording, and a partial solution to this is to record a safety version, just barely getting through the changes, first, then try something more adventurous.
I used to get very tense and
tired in my left hand, but that problem vanished
when I got my Collings. It has a better neck profile
and nut than the Flatiron.
Today my main problem is somewhere in my right forearm,
halfway between hand and elbow,
when playing very long successions of equal value
notes - but NOT when tremulating ( I suppose
I don't have a very regular or metric tremelo, and it's not
what I strive for, anyway).
I'm certainly relaxed when I start; maybe my grip tightens
when doing these very restricted pick motions.
I don't really know.
In reference to sunburst's post - OF COURSE a beginner's
instrument should be easy to play. I think it's very important
to build a vocabulary and develop your ear for it
as fast as possible.
picksnbits
Dec-02-2005, 9:05am
One reason you would hear more discussion about a light left hand in electric guitar circles is that an over-tight grip on electric guitar will actually pull the note sharp. That's why I'm a really lousy electric guitarist. Mandolin does require a tighter grip than many other stringed instruments and you're not likely to sharpen the note enough to be noticed.
I worked on using a light touch last night with good results, but it has to be a concentrated effort until it becomes a habit. One negative aspect for me is that when I lighten up with the left hand, my right hand wants to do the same and I lose a lot of volume. Also, I tend not to hold the string down as long with the lighter touch. I need to keep working at it.
"One reason you would hear more discussion about a light left hand in electric guitar circles is that an over-tight grip on electric guitar will actually pull the note sharp."
That is a very good point, that I had not considered and may explain why the acoustic guitar player in my rock band (an amazing player IMHO) can't get an eletric to work for him.
"I don't know if the original post refers to right-hand technique, but I have actually been working on this. I played classical guitar for years before getting a mandolin, and I loved how Segovia and Parkening and others would play with the coloring of a tune by moving closer to the bridge or the fretboard.
This is another good point maybe a little off track...tee hee....but you've got to be relaxed with the picking hand too...
Dfyngravity
Dec-02-2005, 4:13pm
My best friend plays classical guitar, electric, and regular acoustic. He can play anything from Bach to Santana, he is one of the best guitarist I know and can just flat out play. I love watching him play because it makes my playing so much better. His left hand just seems to float over the fretboard. He said that majoring in classical guitar has really ingrained that in his playing. The floating image is something I think about a lot because if really frees up my left hand. When I first started playing, I would be playing tunes and wanting to slide with say my 3rd or 4th finger but my hand just seemed to be glued the the fretboard and I couldn't do it. I just got stuck everytime. But once I started practicing the light left hand and trying to glid it became almost effortless.
If you have ever seem the Homespun DVD of Thile, than you know what I am talking about. They show close ups of his left hand while playing and his hand just seem to be floating or gliding without really touching the fretboard. Simply amazing stuff!
On a similar note, I am noticing that in trying to keep my pinky finger from spazzing out on descending scale passages, that it helps me to imagine that a magnetic force is holding it a few millimeters above the frets.
Dfyngravity
Dec-02-2005, 11:09pm
That's a very good thing to do there. That is very similar to what I am talking about. If you can get your pinky to do that, than you can get all your fingers to do that. Meaning you have less distance for your fingers to travel, and they don't have to hit the strings very hard. It makes your hand look as if it were just floating over the fretboard.
Markelberry
Dec-03-2005, 11:19am
Im sure glad this subject was brought up,I just started thinking about this recently. I wear grooves in the frets so quickly this had to be the answer. I find right away the transition is coming fairly easy for me and it will surely save my frets,fingers andIm still getting good tone volume,it has takin me 20 years to wake up?