How to humidify?

[abram]

After having Rigel retop my A-plus because of some winter-related cracking, my new top is now starting to crack slightly on each end of the top f-hole. Needless to say, this sucks. I had taken the advice of a local repairman and stuck a potato in tinfoil with holes poked in it in the case, but this does not seem to be helping, the hairline cracks have gotten worse with the potato in there (I know, the whole potato thing sounds dumb, but hey, potatoes are moist, right?). So...advice on how to get it so it won't get any worse, short of buying some high-tech thermadore thing. I'm a poor college kid.
Thanks

[mrkrishna]

One of the big boys is sure to chime in on this soon. So, you bought the mando,(x dollars) it cracked, so you got a retop (y dollars), now its cracking again, and you don't #want to go to the store and buy the thing.... Y plus X equels what?1000 bucks?And you don't want to buy a 20 dollar humidifier? You could get a piece of half inch flexable tubing(I don't know what kind of plastic it is) drill a few dozen holes in it ,fill it with a strip or peices of absorbant foam, soak it, squeeze out the excess, and put your mando to sleep in it's case for a few days.Depending on how tight the case fits(ie;if the f holes are blocked when the case is closed) it should work quickly. Anyone else? There is probably a faster way...

[Steve G]

An "Arion" in case humidifier is an excellent choice. It's a plastic tube with a moisture absorbant gel. I also have a Sears whole house humidifier in a room where I keep all my instruments. I think it was $80. They work great!!! I live in AZ where the humidity is about 10% right now.

[John Flynn]

I have done a lot of experimenting with humidifiers and hygromenters. I have bought expensive humidification stuff that turned out to be absolute junk. Complete the name: planet __. The best cheap thing I have found is #the following:

EZ humidifier: Go to the drug store. Buy a new sponge and a soap case, like you would use to carry a bar of soap on a camping trip. It should all cost less than $2.00. Cut the sponge to fit the soap case. Take an ice pick and puncture a gazillion holes in the top only of the soap case. Get the sponge wet, squeeze it out and put it in the soap case and put that in your mando case with your mando. In a shaped case, it should fit up by the headstock. In a Rigel case, it should friction-fit in one of those cut outs on either side of the neck heel. Check the sponge daily make sure it is damp. Keep your instrument in the case, closed, with the humidifier any time you are not playing it.

I gotta question, though, if there is not something wrong with your Rigel. Mine has been "bullet proof" for 3 1/2 years. Even before I got on the humidification kick, it never went out of tune and the finish is still perfect, despite a lot of hard use and harsh conditions. Next to the playability, the thing I like best about Rigels is they are rugged.

[VictorLouis]

I hope you don't mind the piggy-back, but perhaps someone else is also experiencing this. I've been using sponges inside plastic Rx bottles. I poke holes all around the edges, and the flat part of the top.

Anyhow, I'm getting mold or mildew in merely a week's time. I thought it was just a matter of the sponge material, but it's starting again after a week's time on a synthetic sponge.

I'm hesitant to add even the slightest tincture of bleach in the mix for fear of what it might do to the instrument. However, I can't imagine that the mold or mildew would be very good for the axe or the interior of the case.

Suggestions?

[mzuch]

Use distilled water to avoid mold. Tap water contains little critters that like to breed in dark damp places. Also, consider a 50/50 mix of distilled water and propelyne glycol, which will keep the relative humidity in your case at no more than 70%.

[mandroid]

a bit of silver has been shown to inhibit growth of many microbeasties, my Katadyne ceramic backcountry water filter is got silver bits embedded in it.

[derekbyron]

you can get a room humidifier from home depot, lowes, walmart, bed bath and beyond...the list goes on. for $50 you and all your instruments can live in comfort during the dry months. just make sure to get a warm air humidifier and set it to 47% relative humidity, and make sure that it is filled with water each day. if you really want to step it up, also buy a dampit from the music store for $10 and leave that in your case.

[John Flynn]

I have a furnace humidifier and two Hunter plug-in humdifiers that are each rated for more capacity than the room I keep my instruments in. In the dead of winter, all that combined doesn't get the RH to 45%, measured by a stand-alone, calibrated hygrometer. I still use the big humdifiers to get as close as I can. But I am convinced that humidifying in the case is the most cost-effective, least hassle and most effective method. I have just ordered "Humidistats," for all my cases. Those seem to be the best design I have seen, but I don't have them yet, so time will tell.

The only time I have ever had a mold problem with sponges was with the expensive, store-bought piece of junk unit that I bought. The sponge in a soap case method has never been a problem and I do not use distilled water. What I do is completely rinse out the sponge daily and then completely squeeze it out before putting in back in the case.

[Avi Ziv]

My experience is similar to MandoJohnny's. Room humidifiers (I used warm mist ones) could never make up for the winter dryness here, even when they are rates well above the square footage of the room. Maybe they assume some minimum humidity level in the room to start with. I still use them because it's better than nothing but it's a real battle. I also use sponges in the cases. The best method, although most unsightly too, so far has been putting the mando inside a plastic bag (even a trash bag) with sponges in large punctured containers. I use this only in extreme cases though. I've never had any mold problems and I use tap water.

I do wonder what people did before the age of humidifiers. I mean there are thousands of instruments that survived for hundreds of years in all natural climates, stored in cold areas and also in hot attics. Is there something special about the way wood instruments are built these days, that makes it necessary to humidify? Are they built in such controlled environments that forces the users to maintain that level of temp/humidity for the rest of their lives? What did people do for the past couple of hundred years?

Avi

[earthsave]

Keep your mandolin in the case when not playing it. Used distilled water. It cost like .59 a gallon. I think you can get everything needed at Walmart.

You can use a clean piece of sponge, green floral foam (at craft stores) and just wet/dampen. Put this in a small container with holes, film cannister, travel soap dish, Rx bottle.

Buy a digital hyrgrometer, and whenever you take you instrument out the play it, take a peek at the humidity reading. These can be bought for $15-$30 and sometimes less. When humidity gets less than 40% add water. If it gets too high, dont add water.

[VictorLouis]

I checked with one of my local Radio Shacks, and they were out of the model of hygrometer that they carry. I'm going to try some other stores, unless there's some other suggestions.

Will-do on the distilled water. I'll get some.

With regard to that green 'floral foam', are you able wring it out before putting it into the container?

[Tom C]

The problems with room humidifiers. The cool mist ones feel clammy in winter time.
I do not want to leave a marm mist one on when I am not home as there is a heating element. As soon as you turn the humidifier off the humidity drops again very quickly.

[Danny Packer]

I got a hygrometer for cheap -- maybe $10 -- at Southwest Strings,and it seems to work just fine. They also have inexpensive case humidifying systems, but I'm less satisfied with that and will soon be going back to the soap dish method.

DP

[John Flynn]

Cheap hygrometers (and even some not-so cheap ones) are often innaccurate, some off by as much as 20% RH, which could render them worse than useless. Fortunately, there is a way to either calibrate them, if they are adjustable, or determine the variance if they are not adjustable. Type "calibrate hygrometer" in your search engine. Multiple sites will come up that walk you through the "salt test," for calibration. It works and it is worth doing.

[spoefish]

I have been using little Rubbermaid storage containers with a bunch of 3/16" holes drilled in them, and a sponge inside (saturate it then wring it out). #When they are in the case they seem to be good for a week or so. #Also, recently found that the Kyser Lifeguard that is designed to fit in the soundhole of a guitar (and I use them on all of my guitars) also fits nicely when laid flat under the peghead in you case - works when nothing else will fit. #I used to use Dampits, but found they lasted only about a year and I like the homemade ones better. #Not much problem with the plastic in rigid containers reacting with the finish of your instrument since the bad stuff happens more with vinyl and soft plastics (the stuff that keeps it soft is death on finishes). #And keeping it in the case if a HUGE help. #I have used room humidifiers in the past - I think they help people more than instruments, but maybe I am wrong on that. #Seems like a different strategy for every instrument - one thing for my banjos, another for dulcimers, etc. #but in the end worth the trouble.

Stephen

[Bob DeVellis]

Observation: The folks who say they never have mold/mildew problems live in environments where multiple humidifiers can't maintain adequate air moisture. Mildew goes to town at about 65% RH and up. Spores are airborne. If you live in a climate that seasonally has high humidity, there's a good chance that mold spores are all over the place. They're dormant when it's dry but prolonged moisture will activate them. Using distilled water won't get around this, because the spores are in the air and on environmental surfaces (although some may also be in the water,I suppose). If you live in a really dry place, the localized moisture method(sponges, etc.) may be both necessary and efficient. If you live in a less extremely dry atmosphere, a room humidifier may do the job on its own and a localized, high-moisture source (like a sponge) may create an over-moist micro-environment that encourages mold/mildew. At least, that's my take. I suspect that, while there are probably plenty of exceptions to this, it's the basic pattern.

[Bob A]

I used to stick Dampits in every instrument, and 2x a week pull them all and re-moisten. Then serious MAS hit; it would take way too long to deal with them all now. A Sears evaporative humidifier has kept my living room, and all the instruments, relatively stable for the last several years.

I have a meter that tells me what's going on with the RH. My unit keeps the room at 38-48% RH all winter. When it gets really cold outside, the thing runs a lot. I have to fill it with 4 gallons of water twice a day in the depths of winter, and I get condensation on a couple windows that don't have double panes of glass.

A problem that I experienced with Dampits: if you don't squeeze them out, they can drip into the instrument. And if you use them when you don't need to, you can get mildew problems, or worse. Once I had a guitar neck block swell enough to put a little warp into the top.

[earthsave]

I checked with one of my local Radio Shacks, and they were out of the model of hygrometer that they carry. I'm going to try some other stores, unless there's some other suggestions.

Will-do on the distilled water. I'll get some.

With regard to that green 'floral foam', are you able wring it out before putting it into the container?
You cannot wring the floral foam out but it will only hold so much water. I fling the water out of mine if that makes sense. If you use a soft sponge, definitely wring the distilled water out of it.

You can also go to any cigar website or local smoke shop and they have lots of different humidifiers to choose from for humidors, they are small and are essentially green floral foam in a container. They are generally precharged with propolyne glycol to hold 70% humidity in a humidor when you add distilled water. http://www.jrcigars.com/

To check if you hygrometer is accurate, you can do what is called a salt test. Put salt in a bottle cap, dampen salt to a thick paste with water, insert cap in a Ball jar (1 quart should be large enough, insert hygrometer insuring it doesnt contact the salt, seal lid and let sit for at least 24 hours. Hyrgrometer should read 75%, if not you will know how much it is off by and can note that on a piece of tape or something on your hygrometer.

[billkilpatrick]

someone on the lute list posted this advice - it has to be the simplest, cheapest, most natural humidifier known to man:

breath into it - lots - before and after you play.

n.b. - not recommended for tobacco users interested in maintaining a high resale value.

- bill

[Greydog]

The repair specialist at a guitar shop in Minneapolis showed me how to make a soap dish humidifier. #I've used it for a couple of years now with out any problems. #I used the brand of sponge he recommends and have never had any problems with mold. #He gives details on how to make one on their website.

# http://www.thepodium.com (http://www.thepodium.com/instcare3.html)

[PaulD]

I just had a whole house humidifier installed and so far I'm less that impressed with the performance... I need to call the sales guy and figure out a solution. It doesn't help that the temperature has been in the 20s at night and 30s during the day, but even yesterday when the outdoor temps got into the low 40s and it was raining the thing only pushed the RH up to 30%.

I haven't tried this, but as I aMASs more instruments I've considered getting one of those multi-station weather receivers and putting a sensor in each instrument case. That way I would be able to check the status of each case from a central point and only refill the Dampits/humidifiers in the cases that need it. We play 3 mandos, 1 guitar, and the fiddle fairly routinely, so that leaves several instruments relatively ignored in their cases most of the time.

Paul Doubek