lacquer or varnish?

[Austin Clark]

I am about to finish my first mandolin and am torn between lacquer or varnish... any input would be appreciated. I want to get the best tone possible, but would I really notice any tone difference between the two? Obviously, from looking at my old fiddle varnish does not wear as well....
thanks,
austin

[Chris Baird]

I think there is a difference in tone but not a big difference. I use a varnish because that is what feels right to me. It isn't as toxic as laquer and is a more organic hands on approach to finishing. Laying down laquer is twice as fast and much easier(for me). But I still "feel" better about putting varnish on the mandolin.

[Big Joe]

I prefer Varnish over lacquer. To me there is a tremendous difference. I would recommend spirit varnish. Varnish is much harder to do well, and can take quite a bit longer to do. Varnish is pretty durable. It was used on all the Loars and many of them have done well. Lacquer is more durable though. It would be easier to do a lacquer finish and if you have not owned a varnish mandolin it would not likely matter to you. Just my thoughts.

[Luthier]

One vote for lacquer here.

[johnnymando]

Big Joe,
How difficult would it be to convert an existing lacquer Sam Bush to varnish?
thanks,
John

[BigJoe]

The current finish would have to be completely removed and the new finsih applied as if it were a new mandolin. It is quite time consuming and not cheap to do. If you are interested, just let us know. Thank you.

[crawdad]

I love varnish. Wish I had started using it years ago. It just feels great to me, especially on the neck. I think you can usually get a thinner finish, its much less toxic, no spray equipment or spray booth needed. Its got a lot going for it. Lacquer, when applied right and buffed, does look fantastic and won't smear your stain, but I'm a varnish convert.

[Austin Clark]

Thanks, I think I will give varnish a shot. Is there any particulary good literature available on varnish finishing?

[MarkG]

I would recommend spirit varnish. Varnish is much harder to do well, and can take quite a bit longer to do. Varnish is pretty durable. It was used on all the Loars and many of them have done well.
Why do you recomend spirit varnish? I thought the Loars all used oil varnished overpolished with shellac. In my experience, oil varnish is more durable than spirit varinsh.

[Charlie Derrington]

Actually the Loars were both. I think Joe (not that I can speak for him) was thinking in terms of ease of application. Oil can be a bear to dry and polish.

Charlie

[MarkG]

Actually the Loars were both.
Charlie,

Please could you clarify this for me. Do you mean that Loars were finished with both oil and spirit varnish on the same instrument, or that some were finished with oil varnish and some were finished with spirit varnish.

Thanks,
-mark

[Big Joe]

I'm getting old. I meant to say Oil varnish for my preference. Spirit varnish is easier to use and dries quicker. Most Loars used oil varnish. They were not mixed on the same instrument. I think I'm getting more confusing as I speak.

We use oil varnish on our MMs. That was used on most Loars. I prefer the sound of Oil varnish. Spirit varnish is easier to work and dries quicker. Maybe that is clearer.

[toomanystrings]

I recently A/B'd several instruments. There were two lacquered Ferns, one lacquer Sam Bush and one varnished Fern. They were all very fine mandolins but the varnished Fern just sang out. I didn't realize that there would be as much difference but it was clearly audible. These were all new instruments. I vote for varnish, based on that small sample. I don't know what kind of varnish it was, unfortunately.

[Charlie Derrington]

A lot of the definition difference has to do with semantics. When I say both, I'm refering to the French polish top coat which is over the oil varnish. French polish and spirit varnish are essentially the same material using differing methods of application. (Of course, there are different formulas of spirit varnish and French polish, but essentially they are both shellac based and thinned with alcohol.)

Loars have a sealer, oil varnish, and then a French polish top coat.

Clear as mud?

Charlie