Positions

[glauber]

I have the feeling that this is a simple thing, but i've never known it. I know that when we talk about "first position", that means using open strings and up to the seventh fret, right?

OK. So what's second position? third? fifht? etc. I hear people using these terms and i assume they mean to move higher up on the fretboard, in a vague sense. But is there any precision to the terms?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Martin Jonas]

Yes, there is precision to these terms. It all comes from violin playing, and as didactic classical violin tutors are much easier to get hold of than equivalent mandolin tutors, the best way is to get yourself down to the music shop and browse the tutorial material for violins. You will find that all of the fingering, the terminology and to a very large extent even the bowing direction marks are identical (just substitute bowing with pick direction) and that most of the etudes sound just fine on mandolin; in the better tutors, the etudes can be musically very satisfying on mandolin (for a very upmarket example of this, see Victor's ongoing love affair with the Tartini variations "The art of bowing" in the classical forum).

In brief, first position starts on the first fret, second position on the third, third position on the fifth and so on. If you've worked with the moveable close position scales before, you'll realise that you can play any scale starting with the first finger on any fret without having to change position (you DO need to use the pinky for this, though). That insight means that you can play any tune in any position as long as the range is between the highest and the lowest note reachable in that position. Try playing any fiddle tune in G in first position (using the pinky on the 7th fret instead of the open strings) and then play exactly the same tune two frets higher. You've just transposed the tune from G to A and have played it in second position.

Martin

[steve in tampa]

I got a Mel Bay violin chart awhile back, and it is a good cross reference.

[glauber]

OK, i understand, thanks! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[jmcgann]

The other thing is that guitar positions correspond directly to the fret- so 5th position is the 5th fret. Why not, since we have frets; but it's good to know the fiddle terms in case you wind up playing classical music that uses the terms...

[Peter Hackman]

The other thing is that guitar positions correspond directly to the fret- so 5th position is the 5th fret. Why not, since we have frets; but it's good to know the fiddle terms in case you wind up playing classical music that uses the terms...

A personal reflection on positions, hopefully not hijacking the thread.

When I got started on the guitar I discovered
(I say discovered because I had no teacher) positions.
For instance, in 3rd position I found that you have enough fingers to do an E flat scale. So I learned them all.
Then I found a book containing some transcriptions
with fingering indications, and these were allo ver the place
on the fretboard. So I tried a bit of that, but also
playing in "wrong" positions, e.g., playing
A major out of 5th position, and perhaps stretching a bit
to catch some of the notes.
The greater mobility
led to discovering melodic and rhythmic ideas I would never have found otherwise.

When I got started on the mando 8 years later
I discovered the standard positions; however, oddly,
I have never abandoned them the way I did on the guitar.
Never felt the need, somehow. Is this a universal experience/observation?