humidity question

[billkilpatrick]

when is it too much or too little and what can you do about it?

there's no space in my case ( ...whoo ... ) for a film canister filled with damp florist's foam and - while i love my instruments - i'm trying to cut down on their number - a room humidifier would be an admission of defeat.

i've seen a green tube mentioned which violin players use but can't remember the name of the product.

ciao - bill

[sunburst]

when is it too much or too little and what can you do about it?

Much less than 40%, much more than 50%, and you need to
control the humidity.

there's no space in my case ( ...whoo ... ) for a film canister filled with damp florist's foam and - while i love my instruments - i'm trying to cut down on their number - a room humidifier would be an admission of defeat.

If you have only one instrument, that's reason enough for
a room humidifier, along with all the other benifits you
and all your "stuff" will gain from proper humidity.

i've seen a green tube mentioned which violin players use but can't remember the name of the product.

I think that's a Dampit.

ciao - bill

[PaulD]

a room humidifier would be an admission of defeat
Accept defeat as a desirable situation! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif John's right about the individual instrument humidifier being called a DampIt. They come in different sizes for different instruments... some folks swear by 'em and others hate 'em (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=8;t=19885;hl=humidity+dampi t). There are lots of other options (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=8;t=26513;hl=humidity+dampi t) as well.

I just got a quote on having a whole house humidifier installed in our new house. Kinda pricey, but with 3 guitars, 4 mandos, and the fiddle (those are the current "players"... the bowlbacks don't count) it's less than the cost of replacing any of the instruments other than my $25 Goya guitar.

pd

[Bob DeVellis]

Although I do have a whole-house humidifier, I got by for years with a room humidifier and still use one to give a bit of a boost to the room with the instruments in winter. The range recommended by museums is 35%-55%, with 40%-50%, as John said, being even better if you can do it. Also, and this is important, you want to avoid sudden humidity changes. That's where a nice moist case and a bone-dry room may not work ideally. If your instruments are relatively new, you may not notice immediate problems with fairly substantial humidity swings, but over time, it'll have an effect. On vintage instruments, one bad day of going from damp to dry can have noticeable deleterious effects. Although it's less of a problem than dryness, too much dampness can also be bad. Starting at about 65% RH, mold gets comfy. Old instruments that smell like Granny's attic will get ripe as the humidity approaches 60%-65% and will be noticeably funky if it goes above that. Really 40%-50% should be the goal with swings a bit above or below that not terribly worrisome if they're not extreme. Not only your instruments, but also your furniture, books, leather goods, textiles, paintings, electronics, and humans will also be happier in a humidity-regulated environment.

[sean808080]

for the whole house humidifier, be sure you get a system that is pumped to dump out the water. i had one that was older and used a tray of standing water and was told by more than a few people that it often lead to unhealthy conditions.

just got a new one that pumps out the excess water into a slop sink. also got a little hygrometer to measure the humidity so i'll be keeping an eye and making sure it's in the recommended ranges.


funny how i never worried about this stuff when i just had guitars http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Django Fret]

Here is another approach to the problem.

Last winter was my first using the cigar humidor that I converted to hold mandolins and fiddles. All the instruments are inside their cases, within a confined space that controls the humidity very well.

It kept the humidity consistent at around 45 degrees inside the case, and used probably less than a gallon of water all winter long.

[billkilpatrick]

thanks guys - all of that was really helpful. #

our house sits of a rock ledge. #there's an open space under the stairs and one of the closets actually have a rock face as the back wall. #my golf bag sits in the closet quite comfortably - no mold or rust - but you can feel the change in air when you open the door. #seems like it would be a perfect place to stash the instruments which don't get played that often. it never would have occurred to me if i hadn't read your contributions to the thread - thanks again.

scorpions could be a bit of a problem but ... hey! ...

- bill

[greg boyd]

Hi to all...

My 2 cents on Humidity and instruments...

The problem isn't so much with "how much" or how little humidity when dealing with instruments cracking, seams separating, etc. It is more a function of how quickly you force an instrument to change between levels of humidity.

If you are stable in one area with your instrument for a long period, and it has enough time to adjust, then it will settle in to that zone - usually with no problems, unless forced to do so quickly.

Instruments definitely DO sound better in a more humid environment - not only do the sound waves transmit better thru air with significant humidity, but the turgor pressure that swells each wood fibre and cell will transmit vibrations quicker, and with more of a sure "shock"... (think about humid celery vs. celery that has dried a bit)...

Travelling across eco-zones is your enemy.
Big changes in weather are your enemy.

If you live in an area with lots of general rain as well as melting snow in winter you don't have many worries unless travelling.

If you live in areas where there are times of dryness - especially hot dry winds in summer with stormlike clouds that bring no rain, then HEADS UP!

In winter, the killer is severe "blue northers", or "nor'easters"... the arctic storms that drop temps suddenly from 30 above to 0 or below zero. These storms tend to fracture the moisture out of the air, causing severe cline shifts from relatively high humidity to very low... and they can do it in just a few hours' time...

Severe cold, like 20 or 30 below zero has extremely low amounts of humidity, and is so actively seeking to get moisture, that it will evaporate snow and ice without melting - this is a tremendous force, and this same air wants all the moisture in your instrument if it is exposed to it... as in leaving your house in winter while it is unhumidified. When you are not in your house adding humidity by things like showering, cooking, perspiring, breathing, then the outside air will suck the humidity out until your interior begins to equate with the outside air. In these times if your instrument is left out of case in a heated dry house there is high danger of big cracks in only a day or two. High altitude amplifies this problem.

I spent years on Forest Service fire crews here out west, and was the official weatherman... Just follow the same tips in vigilance as a fire danger predicter would - when your lawn wants to turn brown in summer, it's too dry. When fallen leaves can easily be crushed to powder, it's too dry.
When snow falls as powder, it's too dry.

One of the most easy preventatives is just to put the instrument in it's own protective case when you think there are severe, abrupt humidity changes. This will cause the case to be a buffer against rapid changes in the instrument.

Hope that wasn't "too" long...

- Greg Boyd
House of Fine Instruments
311 Knowles St
Missoula, MT 59801
www.gregboyd.com
406/327-9925