View Full Version : Jimmy Martin's F4....
Spruce
Oct-31-2005, 1:09pm
A little-known event at IBMA last week, judging by the low turnout, was an interview featuring Ray Martin and Lance LeRoy discussing the life and times of Jimmy Martin....
Facinating stuff...
Ray brought along his dad's F4, and I got to check it out quite a bit....
Serial number 50877...
There's a lot of mojo in that instrument, as apparently it's the mandolin that is on every Jimmy Martin recording...
I'm listening to Jimmy right now as I write this, and the recordings just reek of that F4....
Anyway, I'll post a few pics here....
Wish I had a better camera, but these will have to do for now...
Love to get that instrument in the Archives, Dan.
IMHO, it's right up there with Bill's as far as it's historical significance...
Spruce
Oct-31-2005, 1:10pm
Eddie Stubbs, Ray Martin, and Lance LeRoy...
I saw Ray playing that at a festival last summer.
Spruce
Oct-31-2005, 1:21pm
Nice wood....
"mojo" would be an understatement!!! - Thank you(!) for posting - and sharing. This is "sentimental" - maybe even "corny", but to think of all the wonderful BLUEGRASS music that mandolin has..." - Oh well... Thanks again. RIP Mr. Martin. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif
Philip Halcomb
Oct-31-2005, 2:20pm
I always thought he owned that F4, because whenever I saw pictures of his band throughout the years I always noticed the mandolin player playin' an F4. Thanks Spruce, that's cool stuff...
swampstomper
Nov-01-2005, 2:29am
If that's what Earl Taylor was playing on Sophronie... WOW!! you'll never hear a mando ring like that.
Spruce
Nov-01-2005, 11:37am
"If that's what Earl Taylor was playing on Sophronie... WOW!! you'll never hear a mando ring like that."
Considering how ubiquitous the F5 has become in the world of bluegrass (I don't think I saw a single F4 or oval-hole A-model among the hundreds of mandolins wandering the halls of IBMA last week), it's amazing to consider how many seminal bluegrass LPs were cut using the F4...
Here's a shot of Ray with his Dad's mandolin....
swampstomper
Nov-01-2005, 12:26pm
Nice picture of Ray, although it makes me feel old... I well remember him as a young teenager -- remember that album cover with Jimmy, Ray, Ol Pete and all the dead coons laid out on the hood of his car??? I still have that vinyl. Ray was about 12 then I guess.
mandopete
Nov-01-2005, 1:59pm
This is interesting because I alway associate Jimmy Martin with the guitar that has his name inlayed into fingerboard. I'd never heard of the mandolin before and now I'm gonna go back and listen to my Jimmy Martin recordings.
Thanks Bruce!
"...and the recordings just reek of that F4.."(Spruce) - Yup! - in addition, think of the great players - throughout Jimmy's carrer - that have used/recorded THAT mandolin. A Martin "affectionado" can go thru and listen to Jimmy's music - and THAT F4 IS the "constant" - usually regardless of who's play'n it at ANY given time and/or recording. It'll hook ya'! - A great thread about a UNIQUE mandolin. (and yes, let us not forget that 1946 Herringbone D-28 - Jimmy's "workhorse") Thanks to all. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
flatthead
Nov-01-2005, 3:05pm
Actually, Earl Taylor played his own F5 Fern when he was with Jimmy. #
Jimmy didn't get the F4 until after Paul went with the Sunny Mountain Boys. #He bought it in a pawn Shop (I think) in Detroit for about $35.00. #Paul used it on all of the classic stuff they cut #(It's ALL clasic to me!). #Then when Vernon joined the band in about 1964, he started using the F12, also called the coon mandolin. #That's the mandolin that Vernon used the most (Big Country, 20-20 Vision, Poor Ellen Smith, Arab Bounce, etc.) during the 60's. #
Listen to Paul's kickoff on "Little White Church" or "Ocean of Diamonds". #That defines the Martin F4 sound to me.
I've had a chance to be around both the F4 and the F12, and lemme tell ya, they are both great mandolins.
Best regards to all
Jim Rollins
Jim: Thank you much for the info! - Gimme' your "take" on Jimmy's "girl" singers if you would ; Lois Johnson..., Gloria Belle... Those great gospel songs with the "classic" Johnson/Hansord/Williams STILL give me goosebumps - after all these years - every time... Thanks again, Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
futrconslr
Nov-01-2005, 5:37pm
[QUOTE]Considering how ubiquitous the F5 has become in the world of bluegrass (I don't think I saw a single F4 or oval-hole A-model among the hundreds of mandolins wandering the halls of IBMA last week)
I saw one...Yours! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Just dont leave it laying....
Fretbear
Nov-01-2005, 5:46pm
Thanks Spruce.....
Spruce
Nov-01-2005, 6:24pm
Guess I forgot to look under my own chin... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
OK, help me out here...
I'm listening as we speak to the Bear Family Box Set (http://www.countysales.com/php-bin/ecomm4/products.php?category_id=10109&product_id=348&PHPSESSID=55977c8e5146ea85b2d60772d8ed172c) covering the years 1954-74...
So the F4 would be intermingled with an F12 during those years?
Man, it all sounds so damn good...
Even with the drums... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The kickoff to "I'll Never Take No For An Answer" sure sounds like the F4...
I'm not hearing any mando except chops distantly in the background on "Sophronie"..
Maybe there's another version with Earl?
And yes, "Ocean of Diamonds"...
Man, I forgot how good this stuff sounded....
Does anyone have any insight as to how it was recorded?
I'm guessing a single ribbon mic, and that's it...
Put the banjo off-axis, work both sides of the figure-8, and call it a day...
All in glorious mono...
What a cool sound...
I feel a serious Jimmy Martin jag coming on...again.
f5loar
Nov-01-2005, 10:21pm
Bear Family tells you who is who on each song. I would say any with Vernon Derrick on mandolin is the F12 (I thought it was his) and all others would be the F4 except the early stuff with Earl Taylor which probably was the Fern but seems I recall Earl may have had an F12 back then.
Ronnie Prevette told me that Jimmy prefered his mandolin pickers used the F4 but they didn't have to.
mandopete
Nov-01-2005, 10:45pm
Ronnie Prevette told me that Jimmy prefered his mandolin pickers used the F4 but they didn't have to.
Does anyone here think this may have been a way for Jimmy to try to get away from a "Bill Monroe" sound? #
I've often felt that this was what was happening with the mandolin in Flatt & Scruggs and now I'm wondering if that was an F-4 also. #What did Curly Seckler play? #Sometimes it has a sort of an F-4 type of sound to me.
flatthead
Nov-02-2005, 10:40am
Seck played an F4 as well throughout most of his F&S tenure.
More tonight...I'm at work now....sssshhh!
Moose
Nov-02-2005, 10:56am
Hey Jim! - I - also am at work(I think!?##) - If'n we get busted, I still have a few "contacts"... - we'll get us a gig in Baltimore : 7+ nites + Sun. "matinee"(sp.) -@$200 a week PLUS a room, plus a liberal "tab"(for all our buddies that stop in!?##)-AND.., all the other " amenities" (i.e. benefits) that go along for a picker' - We'll tell em'...., won't we... hee... hee... (seriously, have a' good'n!) - Moose-the-day-tripper". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Keith Erickson
Nov-02-2005, 10:59am
Just a silly question...
If the F4 was played so heavily by Jimmy Martin then why wasn't this considered a "Bluegrass" mando like the F5?
Thank you Spruce for sharing the story as well as the pics http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
swampstomper
Nov-02-2005, 1:20pm
Sorry about the Sophronie reference -- I mis-remembered -- I was thinking of Hit Parade of Love with Sam "Porky" Hutchins and yes, Earl Taylor. Sophronie was with Big Paul Williams and JD Crowe. Speaking of JD, check out the discography at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jcm/discog.html compiled by Chris McGlone at Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburg.
Fretbear
Nov-02-2005, 3:05pm
Maybe guitar player and band leader Jimmy got the idea of having a "band" mandolin from former boss, mandolinist and band leader Bill Monroe having a "band" guitar....
Just in case you have any doubts about the boss knowing exactly what he wants...
Hey swampstomper: Great JD website! - Thanks for the post. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
mando-tech
Mar-08-2017, 2:55pm
Sorry about the Sophronie reference -- I mis-remembered -- I was thinking of Hit Parade of Love with Sam "Porky" Hutchins and yes, Earl Taylor. Sophronie was with Big Paul Williams and JD Crowe. Speaking of JD, check out the discography at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jcm/discog.html compiled by Chris McGlone at Carnegie-Mellon University in Pittsburg.
The reason, I think, for F-5 preference over the
F-4 has nothing to do with the oval vs.
F-holes,...It is because of the F-4's short neck,...you run out of hand room when you try to go up the neck !
Bill McCall
Mar-08-2017, 3:04pm
Begs the question, where is that mandolin now?
Mandoplumb
Mar-08-2017, 3:39pm
Seck played an F4 as well throughout most of his F&S tenure.
More tonight...I'm at work now....sssshhh!
No Seck played an F2' Duffy also played an F2 on early Country Gentleman recordings.
GTison
Jul-20-2017, 6:29pm
Has this mandolin been refinished? It seems less red.
f5loar
Jul-21-2017, 10:35pm
I see someone bumped this old 2005 thread up. The Jimmy Martin F4 is still in Ray's hands and was last offered for sale around $60,000. Yes it has been repaired/refinished several times. Might explain why he still has it. The Curly Seck was an F2 that had been renecked by Gibson in the 50's and then again redone by Mike Longworth to look like an F4. I believe David Grisman has that now and it was refinished back to it's Curly era. I saw no mention that Monroe did record several cuts with an F4 and there are several live tapes of him with an F4. When you add to that fact that Monroe also used the F7, a '64 F5, the '45 Epiphone Strand, and even a few A50s leads you to Monroe really didn't care what he had but he preferred the Loar era F5s.
The Jimmy Martin F4 is still in Ray's hands and was last offered for sale around $60,000.
:disbelief:
Bernie Daniel
Jul-22-2017, 9:37am
:disbelief:
Yeah! Remember the Duane Eddy F-5? :)