Emerging Artist Award

[David Horovitz]

I know these guys are good and they haven't been together as a band for very long but aren't they all veterans who have made names for themselves during the past 10-20 years?

It just strikes me as odd that an emerging artist award would go to a band comprised of musicians who aren't exactly new to the scene.

What about truly emerging artists such as Hit & Run Bluegrass or Old School Freight Train or any number of talented, young bands just getting started in the business?

[AlanN]

Welcome to show biz. Bluegrass is as political as the next guy, and these awards shows prove it.

[Big Joe]

Emerging Artist is not about the individual or thier individual talent, but their fit as a group. It takes more than just talent or experience to play at a level like that. These guys are all musicians, but the band has taken a course of its own and that is why the band is the Emerging Artist, not an individual. While some of these others may be good bands with highly talented people, they may not be able to be as cohesive as the ones chosen.

[bsimmers]

"Emerging Artist is not about the individual or thier individual talent, but their fit as a group."

Wow! I guess Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver would qualify for this award about every other year!

[ourgang]

I vote for Pete Rose - Rookie of the Year.

[Willie Poole]

I have said it a few times on here...They, meaning the promoters, are trying to ruin bluegrass just like they did "Country" music....I`m not sure but I don`t think the fans get to select the winners at IBMA do they? ...Willie

[mandopete]

What were they "emerging" from?

[mandoJeremy]

They are a new band! When I was with Wyatt Rice & Santa Cruz we were nominated for Emerging Artists of the Year also but should we have been left out because Wyatt had been playing with Tony for years? We were a new band on the scene the same as The Grasscals are. I think they deserved the win but that is just my opinion.

[bsimmers]

Does it matter? Will they get more jobs/money because they won an IBMA award?
Who votes?
The whole thing seems to be evolving towards folks with money. Or not?
I sure hope it's not going in the country music direction.
Back to "emerging artist." If the Seldom Scene were seen more often and emerging, I guess they would get my vote.

[Moose]

..couple of those boys are graduates of the Osborne Brothers' School of Music ; need I say more... Just my .02. Moose.

[kudzugypsy]

ok, this is a good discussion - people have made some good points to either "argument" - my beef is that bluegrass, unlike other forms of music, is becoming interchangeable parts - it seems every festival season, bands get switched around - 2 members from old band A are now with B, and the old members of B are now with C, on down the line. i know at this level, people have careers, and bills to pay, and everyone is tring to get ahead in the biz,

i agree with the side that says emerging artist should be a fresh name/band. look at any number of band members (say Jimmy Gaudreau (sp?)) how many bands has he played in during his career? (i'm just using him as an example, i like JG, he was one of my first big influences with TR) - if he had a new band, would they REALLY be emerging artists? No, he and the rest of the band are probably 20 year veterans of the circuit.
didnt the CherryHolmes Band get the win last year?...now THAT is the system working. just on that alone, i went to see them and was BLOWN away. another winner was the young band named after monroes favorite mule, i cant remember their names, but once again, i went to check them out and was really impressed. these younger bands without any connections can really benefit more from the award IMO.

[Dando]

bill monroe's mule was named KING WILKIE. the band by that name today is a great band. i especially like "damn yankee lad" and "lee and paige." they played at DRY BRANCH's Grey Fox Festival again this year. they also played joe val back in feb '05. rumor has it we will see DBFS at joe val in '06. heard it recently in the hallway at the firehouse in newburyport........

[jim simpson]

Every contest will leave someone unhappy. While in my teens a trio that I was part of won 1st place. Soloist and groups were not distinguished in the judging. There was to be a photo of all in the contest. It was while waiting for the shot that a girl (soloist) was grousing to me how we should have been judged in a different category. I must have said something that sounded sympathetic because she then urged me to speak up about it right then and there! It was at this point that I ignored her and enjoyed the photo opportunity. The award still looks good in my music room.

[Big Joe]

The members of IBMA are the voters and you can join and vote if you wish. None of this years winners are rich or have any money. They are hard working musicians who managed to find a magical blend of talents that supercedes the individual talent. Alone, they are each incredible, but together they create a different personality and energy. This is what makes them an emerging group. How long they have been playing is not relevant to the issue at hand. The group is its own thing and as a group they are an emerging talent. Many good musicians get together, but that does not make a good band. The right people at the right time with the right mix of personalities makes a great band.

Personally, I'm glad to see the Grassicals win. Danny Roberts and Dave Talbot are friends and I like seeing my friends win. Of course, the entire Cherryholmes family are friends too and I would have been equally happy had they won. Just my one and a half cents.

[swampstomper]

King Wilkie was no mule, he was a horse!! and a good looking one at that. The reproduction of the late 1940's Monroe song folio features King Wilkie prominantly.

Not that this has anything to do with emerging artists....

And since I'm posting, I don't think anyone is trying to ruin bluegrass, just to give it some commercial polish. The fans ultimately decide. And in this age of internet it's much easier for "niche" musicians to survive on word-of-mouth and direct sales. No longer is the weight of the Opry or similar needed for real success. There is just tremendous bluegrass music being made today and a whole new generation coming up (and no I don't mean NC!!). Let's do what we can to keep the best of them in business.

[Moose]

Hey swampstomper: Ya beat me to the gun! - "...a HORSE, not a mule!" - AT a time - long ago(25++ yrs.!) I had a Monroe Songbook with THAT picture in it - Advertising it(songbook) on ebay today would probably get me 5XX times what I paid for it - then - ($2.95 I think). That book May have also had the picture of Bill and Charlie with their "fight'n cocks"(Roosters!) - ah! hindsight! - Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Tom C]

KING WILKIE while they have a great sound, I'm not thrilled wth their overall presentation. All the tunes have really short breaks. Usually 2 instruments will split the one break in the tune.

[red7flag]

There is a very extended voting process for the voting of the different IBMA categories. First ballet is an open nomination. There are two further votes. The votes are sent to a CPA in Owensboro, KY. All IBMA members in good standing (dues have been paid) get ballets. It is up to the member to fill them out and send them in. I will say this is the first year that I have gotten much email and snailmail trying to influence my vote. I will say, that it had no effect in my case. Mostly it was from bands and artists I had not heard of before. I do think there was one Grascals email, but I deleted it before reading it. Just for the record, I did vote for them as emerging artest, with some of the same reservations that were expressed about there being established artests, repackaged.
Tony

[bsimmers]

Sounds like a good thing for grass. With bluegrass I'm not sure you can separate emerging from non-emerging. I don't think anyone just comes from their Thursday night pickin' sessions(like me) and books festivals(not me), then wins the emerging artist award. Surely someone in the band would have been on the scene before.

[David Horovitz]

Thanks for all the varied comments to my original post. I admit I knew very little about the award's criteria and am not a member of IBMA, so my opinion doesn't really carry too much weight.

Perhaps there should be a new award for Rookie Artist of the Year or Emerging National/International Artist. There are many excellent regional bands that are trying to get national/international attention.

I'm still of the view that new bands comprised of musicians who have not already gained widespread national or international attention stand to benefit more by winning such an award.

[John Ritchhart]

Way ta go, Danny! Congrats.

[Big Joe]

Regional bands usually do not win international contests. If they have not reached national attention they are not ready for Emerging Artist award. There are different awards for bands in regional levels. There is also SPBGMA and they have their own award criteria. In other words, the newer groups are encouraged, but they must have hit the big time before they are ready for the emerging artist award. The Cherryholmes band is a good example. They have been performing for about six years. It seems they are new because they have only been on the national scene for a couple of those years. They are certainly not newcomers in that sense. On the other hand, they do not have a long standing bluegrass tradition but have shown the excellence they have by hard work, determination, and talent.

On the other hand, the Grassicals have been together for a much shorter time. They have been together in their current line up for only about a year. Maybe just a bit more. That is an emerging band. It is the magic that happens when a group of musicians get together and everything works that make a band like either of those mentioned above. Just because you put a group of excellent musicians together does not mean you get a good band. It is when it all works right that it rises to the top. Whether it is the Grassicals or any other band, only a few can reach that level of performance and it is not based on years of performace experience, but the magic the persoanalities create when they come together at the right time and the right place in history. For me, I don't care how long they have played as individuals or how many others they have played with. It is the group that matters. Ok. I think I'm repeating myself so I quit.

[mandoJeremy]

One more little tidbit for you David. The year we were Emerging Artists nominees Blue Highway won. Tim Stafford had played years with Krauss, Rob Ickes was definitely already known, and Shawn Lane had been with Doyle Lawson. They weren't new to the scene as individuals but definitely were new as a band. I wish we had won that year but losing to Blue Highway was just fine and they deserved it.

[David Horovitz]

Regional bands usually do not win international contests. #If they have not reached national attention they are not ready for Emerging Artist award.
I only made reference to international because IBMA is an international organization, by virtue of its name.

Interesting that a new band that's become successful regionally would not be considered for or deserving of the IBMA Emerging Artist Award. Unless I misunderstood, this criterion puts an even worse taste in my mouth!

[Tim]

Interesting that a new band that's become successful regionally would not be considered for or deserving of the IBMA Emerging Artist Award. Unless I misunderstood, this criterion puts an even worse taste in my mouth!
My interpretation was not that regional groups were somehow blocked from winning but that a regional group generally isn't well known enough on a broader level to be able to win.

[ethanopia]

I think the IBMA awards are a bit strange. The same people win year after year, and it becomes rather silly. I mean how many Female Vocalists of the year does Rhonda Vincent really need.

The Grasscals winning emerging artists of the year while I think the deserve it is a bit like calling a Goose a Duck. Everybody knows those guys are veterans who are we kidding. There are plenty of deserving young bands who actually need the attention a few have already been mentioned. The Grasscals were already booked at every major festival this year and next without the award. So what good does it do them.

I supose now they can put it in thier press kit...whoop di do.

I bet festivals have been lined up to get them booked. They deserve that because they are an awesome band and I really enjoy them. But c'mon who are we kidding "Emerging" I think not.

Uncle Earl is emerging.

[mandoJeremy]

There again, I should just leave this alone but I can't stop myself. Here is a list of the past emerging artists winners. How many veterans do you recognize in this list? Guess the point will never be proven!

King Wilkie - 2004
Kenny & Amanda Smith - 2003
The Chapmans - 2002
Karl Shiflett & The Big Country Show - 2001
Nickel Creek - 2000
Mountain Heart - 1999
The Gibson Brothers - 1998
The James King Band - 1997
Blue Highway - 1996
Parmley, Vestal & Continental Divide - 1995
Lou Reid, Terry Baucom & Carolina - 1994

All of those bands were very deserving and there were LOTS of veterans in there but these were still new bands!

[boatman]

Referring back to the original post by applemando,(and without taking anytyhing away from the Grasscals) my vote would have been for Old School Freight Train. So very musical and ready, willing and able to venture in novel directions.

[mandoJeremy]

I agree about getting tired of seeing the same people win over and over though. I guess somebody better than Rhonda Vincent just has to get on the scene. Check out this list of past mandolin winners. I like Ronnie and all but come on, there are so many more that are deserving.

Adam Steffey - 2002, 2003, 2004
Chris Thile - 2001
Ronnie McCoury - 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000
Sam Bush - 1990, 1991, 1992

They should do it like Frets Magazine used to and put you into a Gallery of Greats or something after you have won it so many times, which eliminates that player and gives others a chance.

[Big Joe]

I think the idea of winning so many times and then being inelligible would be a good thing. Whether they go into a special class or just hall of fame or super picker or whatever does not matter, but it is good to open the door for new pickers who may be just as great as those listed. I can think of several who can pick just as good as any of those listed who have never won an award but should. Too often the awards go to the person most well known, not the best.

[ethanopia]

I hope I didn't de-rail this thread and turn it into general IBMA award thread or anything. And I need to re-assert that I own both the Grasscals albums and I really like them so I hope it didn't sound like I was bad mouthing them specifically or anything because they are sweet! Just maybe not what I think of as emerging.

I think the idea of be able to max out on IBMA is a great idea. Or maybe make it like the Mark O'Connor rule at Winfield? I think that if you win one year you should be out of the running for two years at least.

I've never seen Ronnie's list of Mando 'o the year.

Astounding...

[A9cp]

Got to agree something is a little odd when the same folks win year after year after year. #Rhonda, Doyle and Ricky again and again, enough already. #Not taking anything away from those performers they are good, darn good. But there has got to be more female performers and for sure more instrumental groups that can play at that level. Are they the cream of the crop and Bluegrass is out of top draw performers. I hope not.

[kudzugypsy]

bottom line is - it doesnt help the IBMA cause to have the same batch of 6 professional players and bands completely dominate over a 10 year period. it shows that the music is mired in complacency.

of course, this is a vote, and so be it - you just have to become a member and vote and hope others see it that way too.

there are a lot of fresh *young* bands out there - but lets not forget, the large body of mainstay bands are from the 2nd/3rd generation...some dating back to the early 70's. really, who is going to fill this gap and push this music to another generation so all you folks with loars and herringbones can assure your investment doesnt go the way of the ukuele. i'm not into the jam band scene, but the LARGE majority of young pickers i run across are coming from this genre. it will be interesting to see how the music *progresses* now that the leadership is changing hands.

i would personally like to see a movement like the .alt country craze of the 90's where young people attempted to take country back to its raw roots. it seems now, that was just a fad, as it became ex-punk rockers with cool western shirts and out of tune guitars singing about being drunk and driving a big rig.
i think it would help bluegrass though. what i mean is songwriting wise. i am hearing a real lack of great bluegrass songwriting over the last few years - and we dont need to hear yet more covers of F&S and Monroe....

[Scotti Adams]

..great post Jerome.....you pretty much nailed it.

[David Horovitz]

i am hearing a real lack of great bluegrass songwriting over the last few years - and we dont need to hear yet more covers of F&S and Monroe....
http://www.hitandrunbluegrass.com/news

Lots of original songwriting, exceptional playing and very professional.

[mandogrrl]

Just saw King Wilkie last Wednesday at Johnny D's in Somerville, MA. Interesting tunes, great vocals. Especially liked the fiddler, bass player and lead guitarist. This is a band with some room to grow in my opinion. They played at Joe Val Festival last year. The Grascals did too and they will be back in February. I've seen a couple of interesting young bands lately, Crooked Still and Abigail Washburn (well, she's not really a band as such) who plays banjo and sings bluegrass songs in Chinese. Actually sounds great.

[mandogrrl]

Another interesting young band in the Boston area is Joy Kills Sorrow. They played at the BBU Fallfest and opened for King Wilkie at Johnny D's.