left handed, playing right

[sirtwangalot]

Hi
Just wondering what your experience has been if you are or were naturally a lefty (ie write with your left hand) and play righty for whatever reasons. I suffered some problem with my left arm which forced me to convert over, but I am discovering a certain lack of power and speed with the right unless I warm-up for what seems to me WAY too long. Since I played much better in the past, ultimately I may quit due to the frustration of my coordination not catching up with my knowledge of the instrument. Not complaining, there are lots of instruments to play. Concertina caused me no major coordination issues, although they are very pricey, even for some leaky old thing. Good weekend all.......

[ronlane3]

sirtwangalot,

I am a natural lefty that plays right handed. I have found that I struggle with my right hand technic over all, whether it is strength, speed, whatever. I have just gotten the books from Brad Laird at mandouniversity.com and they have some VERY good right hand exercises, that I have noticed improvement with my right hand. I can't put the books down.

Hope it helps.

[Dfyngravity]

I am a natural lefty and play righty too. My technique is overall pretty solid, I do lightly touch my fingers on the mandolin(not a full out plant) with my right hand. Speed isn't that great, I can play at my fastest and still remain fairly clear at 240-250bpm or so...so I would say that's average. My tone is actually pretty good, but I concentrate on clearity and tone a whole lot more than speed.

I started playing mandolin 3 years ago and righty is the way I started. I have been thinking about buying a cheapy left mandolin and trying to learn lefty just to see where it goes. But I don't know...we will see.

I would say, stay at it for a little while longer. If you just converted well it's going to be slow at first because it's going to take your right hand a while to get use to picking. I remember when I played travel soccer and I was forced to learn to kick with my right leg too. It took me all winter just to get my kicks good enough to know where they were going and a whole season to get them at almost the same strength as my left leg. TIME is key in everything you do, and it usually takes more than most are willing to spend.

[AlanN]

Thile does it, no problem http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mandomax]

I am a lefty who plays right handed. My first guitar teacher, when I was 9, started me that way. His reasoning was that I would have less problems finding a guitar off the rack and I could try someone else's out easily. I am glad he started me like that. Now, 22 years later, I feel like technique (on mando or guitar)does not hold me back one iota, just my imagination. I think learning either way will be an uphill climb. Good luck and don't give up!
-Max

[Eugene]

I am a lefty who plays a number of different instruments in standard fashion. #I am convinced that my mediocrity has absolutely nothing to do with my left handedness. #The phenomenon seems relatively common amongst classical guitarists, and that instrument even requires a fair amount of fine dexterity of the right hand. #I argue that there is absolutely nothing natural about the task of either hand in playing music; music is purely anthropogenic and whatever task whichever hand pursues could be considered arbitrary. #I would encourage any lefty who has never handled a musical instrument and is curious about learning to at least commit some real effort to trying the standard fashion. #Pursuit of left-handed instruments will shut out a whole world of fabulous vintage and historic instruments if that ever becomes an interest.

[Bob DeVellis]

I'm another one. Actually, I think there may be some advantage to being a lefty playing right-handed. It seems to me the greater dexterity is required of the hand on the fingerboard than the one driving the strings. On the right hand, you're using larger muscle groups. On the left, you're really doing pretty precise placement, not to mention ornamentation. I think it's really no harder to play one way than the other initially, and once you've gotten used to one way, a switch would always be a challenge -- essentially like starting over.

[DryBones]

I have a hard enough time playing lefty as a lefty. no way am I even going to attempt playing righty http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[picksnbits]

I discussed this with my daughter's violin teacher last night after discovering that she (the teacher) was left-handed. She plays multiple instruments and has been teaching for several years and said she sees no need for left-handed instruments. Both hands have to get involved and learn some fairly unnatural and intricate movements.

[sirtwangalot]

Thanks for all your responses. I know from personal experience however, that playing lefty as a left hander at one time was better for me. I warmed up a little, and the speed was just there. I had less trouble (as a lefty) developing the fretting hand than I do geting my right picking hand as powerful and accurate (and natural ) as it was as a lefty player. Anyway, thats all in the past. As one post stated, it's about the time willing to give it before seeking some other musical outlet. It's those days when everything flows nicely and and my right hand finally starts getting down to business that makes me perservere. If it didn't happen at all the decision might be easier http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Good weekend all, hope all who might have been affected by the hurricanes are ok.

[mandodebbie]

I am a lefty who plays righty. My left hand of stronger than my right, and it is too much fuss and bother to switch. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lefty&French]

I would encourage any lefty who has never handled a musical instrument and is curious about learning to at least commit some real effort to trying the standard fashion. #Pursuit of left-handed instruments will shut out a whole world of fabulous vintage and historic instruments if that ever becomes an interest.
So true! But ordering custom instruments is easier... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[DryBones]

So true! But ordering custom instruments is easier... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
and as more left handed people in the future learn to play their "natural" way our custom order lefties(I haven't ordered 1 yet)will become the collectors items of tomorrow.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Eugene]

My point is that I don't believe there is a "natural" way for anybody. I truly believe the tasks assigned to each hand in music making have nothing to do with nature and are wholly arbitrary. Lefties have grown up learning to do by mirroring what they see done. The expectation of what fits is potentially established when a lefty puts a chordophone to hand for the first time.

Even as a lefty, I can't bring myself to label chordophones as "righty," but prefer to label them "standard" if built to have the neck in the left hand. There have been plenty of left handed classical violinists, pianists, flutists, etc. throughout history. Look over any orchestra; how many of them do you see with backwards instruments in/at hand? The phenomenon is rightfully rare in the extreme amongst academically trained musicians. Any interested lefty who has never tried a musical instrument really should at least give standard instruments a fair shake first.

That said, every now and again somebody appears who seems unable to navigate a mandolin unless the neck is in his/her right hand. I don't know if that results from hard wiring of the lefty's right brain or a learned expectation, but it does happen. I'm glad it didn't happen to me.

[Jeroen]

Of course it would be awful to lose a mandolin colleague to the concertina world, but we would not want sirtwangalot to mess up his other arm too would we?

Converting (like sirtwangalot is doing) could be much more confusing than learning to play a standard instrument as a lefty. Much of the needed information for coordination is already developed, but might be in the "wrong" half of the brain.

[levin4now]

dfyan gravity - 250bpm is avg?

I already KNEW the answer to this b4, but I guess it puts me at tortoise when I play my best at 150.

[mandocrucian]

Take a look at Interview with Ryan Thomson (http://www.bookreviewcafe.com/interview198.html)

[Eugene]

Of course, Thomson's assertions have entered these discussions before. #I am sort of Thomson's mirror image in that I am a lefty who plays in standard fashion and had the same career debate he did, but I became a professional scientist and avid amateur musician. #I haven't read his book, but am keen to find the time to do so sometime.

Still, anecdote has extremely limited quantitative use and getting at real testable hypotheses regarding this issue in anything beyond a very roughly descriptive way would be extremely difficult. #Thomson, a converted natural righty, offers:

...I also tried to take care in my book to point out some reasons why lefties might consider playing in the traditional right handed way, despite their natural inclinations.
I'm still wholly unconvinced there is any natural inclination to place a chordophone's neck in either hand. #To find out, we would have to experiment on a population of lefties and righties who had been wholly isolated from seeing anybody execute music.

I'm one of those characters who was a very active pre-schooler. #I had been "crafting" for a while by the time I hit kindergarten and learned to use right-handed scissors when I discovered, at home, that scissors wouldn't work well in my left hand. #When I did arrive at school, I was branded "lefty" and had those damned lefty scissors forced into my hands with every new teacher. #I had to convince each new teacher that I knew what I was doing with righty scissors.

[jmkatcher]

I'm one of those characters who was a very active pre-schooler. I had been "crafting" for a while by the time I hit kindergarten and learned to use right-handed scissors when I discovered, at home, that scissors wouldn't work well in my left hand. When I did arrive at school, I was branded "lefty" and had those damned lefty scissors forced into my hands with every new teacher. I had to convince each new teacher that I knew what I was doing with righty scissors.

The exact same thing happened to me in school. What I was most resentful of was the inferiority of the lefty scissors. They always seemed especially dull or rounded for the protection of the mentally deficient. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

P.S. Back on topic, I also learned to play mandolin righty as it just felt correct. Piano on the other hand is much more difficult for me as a left-hander.

[WoodyMcKenzie]

I am a lefty from a musical family who had the chance to learn mandolin from my mother when I was 8 years old. I think it was partly that I just didn't #have enough motivation and partly because it just felt so awkward right handed, but it didn't take. My folks bought me a guitar when I was 15 and I tried but it didn't really feel right until I strung it up lefty and played that way. I think everyone is an individual and learns their own way, but for playing a mandolin or any plucked instrument, it's the picking hand that drives the music and the noting hand serves it. I play fiddle more than mandolin and for me, the bow absolutely needs to be left handed. Both hands are important. I consciously do some things right handed and some things both handed, but when I do anything with feeling, I do it with my left hand.

I believe the reason classical musicians are all right handed is that they make them be that way. Perhaps they want to see the bows all going the same way.

Left handed instruments aren't all that hard to come by anymore. Just do a search on ebay. I also don't see any harm in stringing a right handed A model mandolin up lefthanded.

Just think how good Chris Thile would be if he had learned left handed?!? javascript:emoticon('http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif')

I have probably said enough, but if you are still interested, I even have a left handed page on my website...

Woody

[Lefty&French]

...There have been plenty of left handed classical violinists, pianists, flutists, etc. throughout history. #Look over any orchestra; how many of them do you see with backwards instruments in/at hand? #
That said, every now and again somebody appears who seems unable to navigate a mandolin unless the neck is in his/her right hand. #I don't know if that results from hard wiring of the lefty's right brain or a learned expectation, but it does happen. #I'm glad it didn't happen to me.
Eugene,
1)I think you know the answer: no musicians with "backwards" instruments in orchestras because classical teachers and/or conductors didn't (don't) let them try!
2) In a "righty" world, lefties have a lot to do to adapt... Are you "unable" to write with your right hand, even if you type with both hands?
3) I don't judge left handed persons who play righty, and I know someone here, righty, who plays lefty for a better feeling in his teaching...
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I hope my words are accurate, 'cause I'm lefty...& French

[Eugene]

1)I think you know the answer: no musicians with "backwards" instruments in orchestras because classical teachers and/or conductors didn't (don't) let them try!
I sincerely believe, in all but extremely rare cases, that's because there is no need to.


2) In a "righty" world, lefties have a lot to do to adapt... Are you "unable" to write with your right hand, even if you type with both hands?
I can roughly scratch out vaguely letter-shaped forms with my right hand, but it doesn't quite qualify as writing. #I have only adapted where need be (scissors, e.g.). #Given that both my hands are busy when I play mandolin, guitar, classical guitar, baroque mandolino, lute relatives, etc. I don't feel my musicality is remotely compromised in playing standard instruments.

Given my fondness for historic instruments, I'm sincerely glad I never went down the road of lefty instruments (which I still believe to be more marketed to psychosomatic issues or yearnings towards some kind of lefty loyalty than to a physical need); good luck finding any original 19th-c. guitars braced in reverse. #I do believe there are lefty exceptions--i.e., some lefties who really need to play backwards instruments to be functional musicians--but, as demonstrated by skilled, trained classical musicians everywhere, they are rare in the extreme. #Another exception would be necessitated by injury, of course.


3) I don't judge left handed persons who play righty, and I know someone here, righty, who plays lefty for a better feeling in his teaching...
I would never judge a musician's musicality by whichever hand he/she opted to use in cradling an instrument's neck. #Expressing your musical passion with conviction is the goal, and if you feel that a mandolin neck in your right hand makes that happen, you should do so and enjoy.


I hope my words are accurate, 'cause I'm lefty...& French
I certainly believe them to be sincere.
My best,
E

[Lefty&French]

Thanks Eugene. I still think believing is not demonstrating.
Ask lefties if they are allowed to play their way, even if they already own a lefty instrument. Ask classical teachers if they accept lefty students. Old world answer is "No".
You can now easily buy lefty ("folk" as we say here for dreadnaught)factory guitars, but no violin. Why?
I agreed whith you: It's better to try first the right way; but if not, "natural" or not, "backwards" or "mirror", you can just play lefty...

LeftPhil (playing lefty since 1966)

[DryBones]

Ask lefties if they are allowed to play their way, even if they already own a lefty instrument. Ask classical teachers if they accept lefty students. Old world answer is "No".
You can now easily buy lefty ("folk" as we say here for dreadnaught)factory guitars, but no violin. Why?
Because there would be too many eye injuries to/from the guy sitting next to you! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Bob DeVellis]

for playing a mandolin or any plucked instrument, it's the picking hand that drives the music and the noting hand serves it.

Woody -- Interesting. I don't see it that way. Maybe it's because of what I play (Irish traditional music). I remember classically-trained Irish fiddler Kevin Burke saying that, on fiddle, he felt that it was all about the left hand, that the right hand was just the engine driving the strings but that all of the quality of the music came from the left hand. The more I play Irish trad on mandolin, the truer I find that to be for me. The right hand is just a metronome, providing a cadence and the appropriate variations (like triplets) when needed. But to me, the left is really doing the work of making it musical, throwing in the various ornaments, etc. The best example of that may be a split triplet, where the first two of the notes are one pitch and the last is a note somewhere above them. For me, the best way to play them is for the right hand to go into "triplet autopilot" and let the left hand (and my ears) deterimine when to drop a finger onto the fretboard to have the third note land in the right place. The less attention I pay to my right hand the better. But I'm only speaking for myself here. Others may ahve different experiences.

I think that notions about left brain and right brain specificity are often overstated. Our brains work as a coordinated whole and there are large bundles of nerves (corpus callosum, massa intermedia) that connect the hemispheres. It's true that the brain halves aren't mirror images doing exactly the same thing, but they're not separate "rational" and "emotional" machines working in isolation, either. I don't think there are all that many natural situations where hemispheric specialization makes doing something with one side of the body easier if the task matches the purported hemispheric skills (although it's possible to contrive artificial situations capable of revealing some superiority of certain tasks for one or the other hemisphere). Until recently lefties in many parts of the world were forced to be righties and they seemed to adapt to that situation without any profound difficulty. I'm not recommending that but merely pointing out that we're adaptable critters. It's not as if we have one "musical" hand and one "logical" hand. Why would such a specialization evolve when both music and writing (or otherwise expressing logical ideas manually) are so recent in an evolutionary sense?

I think those who have said that people differ are on to something important. If someone tells me that playing right-handed feels wrong and playing left-handed feels right, I'm inclined to believe that that's true for them. It's not my experience as a lefty, but I hear it often enough to believe it's the experience others have. Personally, my experience is exactly wheat Eugene has been talking about. When I pick up a new instrument, it feels awkward no matter how I handle it, especially if it's one (like most) where both hands have to do something important. So, if I were reluctantly going to make any kind of recommendation, I'd suggest that people try both; if they both feel equally awkward at first I'd seriously consider the advantages of playing righty. If that feels terrible and playing left feels better, then get a lefty instrument and go for it.

Sorry for the diatribe.

[WoodyMcKenzie]

Bob--

I agree with a lot of what you say. I do believe that some fiddlers do use their noting hand a lot to help define their style and sound. This would probably relate to mandolin playing as hammer-ons and pull-offs as well as muting the notes or chords, so yes, there is a lot of noting hand control with mandolins as well. I don't rely as much on ornaments from noting, but do use my noting hand for sliding and vibrato, which help to give me my own "mongrelized" style. Still, the force that causes the instrument to make any sound at all comes from my left hand moving the bow and the subtleties (sp?) are quite complex and nuanced. As a dance fiddler, I try to make the bow dance and move rhythmically. The amount of bow pressure, how fast the bow moves, and all the dynamics really help determine what finally comes out. All in all, you just can't separate the whole process into a left/right thing. I need all of my brain and then some to play well! My whole body moves with the music. My wife and I were playing for an elderhostel earlier this summer and I fiddled a tune and a lady in the audience exclaimed that she really liked my fiddling. I asked her what she liked about it and she said that I looked like one of those "stomper dolls" when I played. I took that as a compliment.

When I was in the 2nd grade my teacher told me one day that we were going to learn to write cursive and she wanted me to decide which hand I wanted to write with, since I was printing fine with both hands. I already knew that I was left handed and chose to write as a lefty. She had me lay my paper on the desk slanted like all the other students though, so I ended up writing with a right handed slant, which I still do today. Teachers should try to help people learn the best way they can.

A large majority of people are right handed. That doesn't mean that a small minority of people who can learn better left handed should play mandolin or violin or guitar right handed. Especially now, when left handed instruments are readily available. Hey, I even have some left handed Wegen picks! And they really are left handed!

Woody

[Lefty&French]

A large majority of people are right handed. That doesn't mean that a small minority of people who can learn better left handed should play mandolin or violin or guitar right handed. Especially now, when left handed instruments are readily available. Hey, I even have some left handed Wegen picks! And they really are left handed!

Woody
You said it better than I could, even for picks! I too like to play with left-handed beveled Wegen picks, and some people here don't understand it's an improvment...
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bob DeVellis]

Woody -- Excellent points.

[avanti]

I think Woody is right in that he's doing what works best for him. I don't think it's what is best for many left-handers. May I remind everyone that Chris Thile is a lefty playing righty. I think he has plenty of power in his right hand.

[sirtwangalot]

I started a flurry of activity with this discussion, which is great. I agree that for some leftys a lefty instrument is really the best way to go. My left hand was still a far superior better picking with absolutely no warm up or practice. If I hold the mandolin upside down and hold the mandolin at an awkward angle (related to my problem oh well) I hear and feel the difference immediately. I have quit for now, moving on to some more suitable instrument for my issues. In the past I played Rawhide and Bluegrass BD at a pretty good clip, now I struggle to get Liberty up to what is a passable medium tempo. As much as I like the mandolin, I have had to come to terms with the idea it is not the best instrument for certain coordinational issues which have developed. since I know so many fiddle tunes, perhaps Harmonica or concertina will be the way to go for me. They're all floating around up there, it's just a matter of finding the right instrument to express them. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Have fun everyone, hope to see some of you at a festival someday- steve

[kvk]

I'm a left who plays righty, started guitar that way when I was a kid. I dabbled playing lefty but never had the time or $$$ to get an instrument and practice long enough lefty to find out if I'd be better.

I find one thing about playing I have to concentrade on, the chain of sigals that runs between my brain and hands. Being lefty, the natural sequence is my brain tells me left hand what to do and my left hand tells my right hand what to do. That doesn't work so well. What I try to concentrate on is getting my brain to talk to my right hand then let my right hand talk to my left hand.

[Eugene]

A large majority of people are right handed. That doesn't mean that a small minority of people who can learn better left handed should play mandolin or violin or guitar right handed. Especially now, when left handed instruments are readily available.
Of course, but I'm still not convinced standard chordophones or the standard mode of playing them (neck in left hand) are "right-handed" by any better reason than centuries of tradition via the fact that most people, coincidentally including those playing musical instruments, happen to be right-handed. #Conversely, I have never seen any convincing evidence (and I can imagine it would be very difficult to generate any) that "left-handed" instruments are actually better suited to left-handed people; in most cases, I suspect they really are no more than opposites of standard instruments and thus appeal to the expectations of lefties.

Again, there are rare lefties who seem to need to place the neck of a chordophone in their right hand for some reason--be it hard wiring of the brain or a learned expectation--and they should do so, but they seem to me to be rare in the extreme. #I'm still really glad that I'm not one; I intend no slight to and think no less of those who are.

[mandocrucian]

Of course, but I'm still not convinced standard chordophones or the standard mode of playing them (neck in left hand) are "right-handed" by any better reason than centuries of tradition

But then why are these type instruments played "RHed" all over the planet? #China, SE Asia, Africa, etc... #If it didn't make any difference, they instruments played from the other side should surely have become the norm in 'some' culture. #But the 85/15 (or so) split between RHed/LHed is pretty consistant around the world.

You know, the experiences of "lefties playing righty" is just as much annectdotal evidence as anything from "lefties playing lefty" and has no greater validity than the latter.

There's no conclusive cause(s) for LHed-ness, and any experiments in scientifically creating lefties in utero would be banned as human experimentation. And how many musicians play from both sides from the outset, so there is no comparitive "from scratch" 'evidence'. Yeah, some do switch over, but they are not starting from square one from the other side; the 'experiment' is already tainted by the knowledge they already acquired.

I had 30 years RHed playing experience to apply to playing LHed. I already knew what my hands were supposed to do, and the ear>RH (fretting) connection was there from the beginning, travelling over the pre-existing ear>LH neural wiring. And the situation was already altered by years of ambidextrous martial arts training. Is it more "unnatural" playing LHed? I can't remember what it was like at sq 1 playing righty, and even if I could, how could I even attempt to compare? #In fact, it was not being to remember which prompted me to start playing LHed.

Is there a point that which hand you play from no longer makes that big a difference? Probably. But then, how long does it take to cross that point?

Annecdotal stuff. Never braced/anchored the plectrum hand playing LHed; free hand felt much better. LHed playing seems alter my mood in various ways - must be because I'm running some of the software through different circuits.

NH

[Eugene]

But then why are these type instruments played "RHed" all over the planet? #China, SE Asia, Africa, etc... #If it didn't make any difference, they instruments played from the other side should surely have become the norm in 'some' culture. #But the 85/15 (or so) split between RHed/LHed is pretty consistant around the world.
This is a very interesting point. #However, there have also been occasional left-handed people for all time in all places (as far as we know), and I am still aware of very few historic chordophones built for the neck to ride in the right hand even though some of those left-handed people must have been musicians. #Iconography of lute-like things dates to ancient Egypt. #I don't know af any evidence of instrument necks in right hands in pre-print iconography (that doesn't mean it's not around, just that I'm not aware of any) and after engraved printing came into play, iconography of such instruments can often be dismissed as engraving error. #Of course, one could argue that earlier peoples were less PC, less willing to accommodate chordophone necks in right hands, but without specific evidence, that's only more speculation.

Another interesting fact is that the treble strings always seem to occur on the downward or left side (from the players perspective) of necked chordophones. #There doesn't seem to me to be any logical explanation for that phenomenon either.

One possible explanation is that all necked chordophones are, to some degree, imitations of a single conceptual ancestral type. #While that was the fodder of old-school organologists (a la Galpin, who even credits the invention of lute-like chordophones to a single individual), that notion is as specualtive as any.


You know, the experiences of "lefties playing righty" is just as much annectdotal evidence as anything from "lefties playing lefty" and has no greater validity than the latter.
I wholeheartedly agree and don't mean to imply otherwise. #That's why I always point out my feelings on the matter as my feelings (approaching as an admitted lefty playing in standard fashion) and like to add the caveat that I don't know the why of any of it. #Your anecdote of differing moods in aproaching instruments with differing handedness is interesting, Niles.

[Lefty&French]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif (Playing one of my left-handed chordophones...)

[WoodyMcKenzie]

My wife and I had a gig last night playing for the first Fridays events here in Lynchburg. We sat in the back of the town trolley and had to brace ourselves with our legs and feet while we played for passengers as the trolley made its circuit, bumping over railroad tracks and speed bumps. My being a lefty was advantageous for us because our instrument necks pointed in opposite directions in the limited space in the back seat. I think it's also important to look balanced on stage, so half the "chordophones" point to one side and half to the other. ;-)

Niles, I'd really like to get you to test drive my left handed carved topped octave mandolin. #Rightys seem to be boggled when I hand it to them!

Woody

[Lefty&French]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[sjus]

Even today, in some cultures, the left hand is regarded as being "unclean", because it´s used for hygienic purposes in the lower end of the body, while the right hand is used for eating, writing, shaking hands and such.
Maybe this was a "worldwide" adoption in ancient times, and could that be why we see no lefty stringed instruments in old images? (Of course, then we´d have to assume that picking was higher rated than noting...hmmm)
And how about archers in ancient armies? A lefty archer would hold the bow in his right hand and the string/arrow in his left - would that mean he needed a lefty built bow?
In modern times? Yes! I´ve done some arching, and I did it with a lefty bow.

There is no question that left handed people adapt much easier to right hand operations, living as we are in a right hand world.
I am pretty much a hardcore lefty, but cutting with scissors I can only do with my right hand, probably because there were only right hand scissors in the house when I grew up.
At the age of 12 I used to sneak into my big sister´s room when she was out, grabbed her right hand guitar trying to work out a D an A7 from the book she had. It caused me some trouble to make it sound good, since I held it as a lefty.
Now, why is it I instinctively learned to use right hand scissors, but just as instinctively held the guitar the lefty way? (And still do)
In both cases it was a lefty grabbing right hand instruments in a right hand environment.
The guitar is more complex than the scissors, obviously, and the point could be that you have to use both hands and make an order of precedence, like in arching, while the scissors require only the use of one hand.

When I walk into a music shop, I can only look at all the great instruments, and if I´m lucky there are maybe one or two cheap lefty guitars, but certainly no mandos. In a moment like this I really wish I was right handed, or had taught myself to play right handed!
I have a right hand guitar (for RH friends visiting), but it doesn´t work at all for me when I try it.

It´s comforting though, as Woody points out, that more and more left hand instruments has surfaced on the market in the recent years, and they´re not just expensive custom builts or tatty Pac-Rims, but also decent mid-range instruments.

If you´re a lefty, do what you feel best.
I´m going to stick to it - life is too short to fumble with an A7 all over again.

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Søren

[Bob DeVellis]

One possible factor may be how we first approach a stringed instrument. Hand a kid a guitar and I'm guessing that he or she will strum it before they try fretting the strings. In other words, in a naive state, we approach a fretted instrument as something to be strummed. Our dominant hand is then the logical one to use for strumming. In contrast, if we first encounter an instrument with more understanding of its requirements for both hands to do some tricky stuff, we may have less of a tendency to see it as something to be strummed by the dominant hand. I remember my first encounters with a guitar. I definitely thought of it as "something to be strummed," but also realized that it had to be fretted to get the correct sounds from it. Strumming struck me as a heck of a lot easier than holding down the strings to play chords. I remember two buddies and I trying to play a Beachboys song and we would each play one chord because it was impossible for us individually to change chords fast enough for it to sound like a song. We were sort of like bells players. What I remember about this is that fretting was the task that needed my stronger more agile hand. Heck, all I had to do was swing my right arm to do the strumming stuff. I could have done it with my foot if I had to. So, I perceived the instrument as demanding more skill and strength from the left hand and playing it in the standard position made perfect sense. Someone else with a different understanding of the instrument might just as reasonably have perceived it as an instrument that isn't just strummed but one that is picked, either with a flatpick or fingers. To them, the coordination involved in picking might strongly incline them to assign the task of picking to the dominant hand. In my case, playing "right handed" made sense; in theirs (assuming they're left-handed, too), the opposite made sense. Just something to think on.

[mandocrucian]

And how about archers in ancient armies? A lefty archer would hold the bow in his right hand and the string/arrow in his left - would that mean he needed a lefty built bow?
In modern times? Yes! I´ve done some arching, and I did it with a lefty bow.

The ancient bows were ambidextrous. Being able to shoot from either side was an individual military advantage, especially with horse archers.

I've been thinking about doing some archery. But I'd want to train from both sides from the very start. Would need to find an ambidexterous bow.

[AlanN]

quote from above...Hand a kid a guitar and I'm guessing that he or she will strum it before they try fretting the strings. In other words, in a naive state, we approach a fretted instrument as something to be strummed.

Maybe, but my 12 yr old picked up the guitar and the first thing he did was pick out the melody to Smoke On The Water (if there is such a thing) on the high E string. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[sjus]

Bob, you are probably right when you say a little kid first of all will see a stringed instrument as something to be strummed, and will use it´s dominant hand to do so.
In my case I was 11 or 12 years old when I sneaked in to play my sister´s guitar, not a little kid anymore, and I knew by observations and experience that stringed instruments need to be fretted to make the right sounds, just like Alan´s 12 year old son, when he picked out Smoke On The Water. However, I still wanted to use my dominant hand for strumming, not fretting, allthough I had an "intellectual" approach to the operation. Maybe it is something like this: give a drum and a stick to a 50 year old person, who has never beaten a drum before, and that person will use his dominant hand to hit the skin?
Is it a pre-historic thing about "beating"?
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that the noting hand is making the music, while the picking/strumming hand is kind of doing a secondary job. I don´t see it that way; my feeling is that both hands act in complex but most differently ways at the same time, and I for sure can´t say which of them is making "most" music. what I mean is: what´s the point of fretting the E string if you´re picking the G string?
Oh, I just got this mental picture of you and your friends back then, each holding on to your chord, working your way through a Beachboys song as bell players. Absolutely lovely!

I´ll keep a close eye on my 2 year old grand-son when he´s visiting, and see what happens the day he grabs one of my stringed instruments! There are no signs yet, as far as I know, whether he is left og right handed.

mandocrucian, thanks for the information about ancient archers, that was interesting.
Modern bows are very technical, and I´m not such a great fan; too many devices to help you hit bulls-eye.
What you might want is a longbow, and do your arching partly by intuition. Zen-like, if you wish.

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Søren

[Eugene]

The slightly lesser technicality sometimes alluded to regarding the right hand in approaching standard chordophones largely is absent from punteado and more complex rasgueado techniues executed with the hand in the absence of a plectrum. #However, such complex, fingerstyle techniques are usually considered to have not come into play until sometime in the later 1400s, many centuries (perhaps even a couple millennia) after necked chordophones appeared. #I suppose it's possible some prehistoric pluckers engaged the fingers; however, whatever we know of ancient technique is extremely limited, essentially to iconography alone.

On bows, Niles, consider finding yourself a stoutish yew and have at it, Robin-Hood style! #On the rare occasions that I have drawn a bow (first as a Cub Scout decades ago and outside of the memory of whether or not it felt unnatural), it has been with the right hand. #I suspect this is because, as in scissor use, there just really isn't another way unless you own your own non-standard bow.

[Bob DeVellis]

Alan - I suspect the Niederlander clan is genetically pre-wired to bypass all elementary stages of playing and get right to the good stuff. Soren - your observation is interesting and valid. I'm not at all certain that I'm on the right track, just thinking out loud. I think I have a tendency to analyze my own experience and assume that it's more or less universal -- not a particularly good way to understand the issue. Eugene - unlike with mandolin, I absolutely have to use bow-and-arrow as a lefty. I took archery in college phys. ed. and for most of the course, was relegated to a ancient, cheapo fiberglass bow because no nice laminated-wood bows built for lefties were available until the very end of the class. When I finally got a wooden bow to use, it would send an arrow about three times the distance of the fiberglass model. The only advantage of the fiberglass bow was the rather foggy day we learned clout shooting -- sending arrows more or less straight up in the air to land on the target from above (think medieval archers raining arrows down on a formation of infantrymen who are suddently raising their shields overhead). The guys with the better bows ended up showering the nearby tennis courts with arrows (a couple of close calls) while my feeble fiberglass bow couldn't have thrown an arrow that far even if I wanted to. I wish I had a picture of the dismayed tennis players standing on the courts with arrows sticking into court surface.

[joshro78]

Shooting archery has more to do with your dominant eye than your handedness. And almost all real longbows can be shot from either side because you use your hand as the arrow rest and don't use any sighting device. Instinct and timing - that's REAL archery -- kind of like music! Now if I could only build my own mandolins like I do my bows!

[sjus]

Interesting point, joshro, and I agree with you a good deal of the way, but: I know that my dominant eye (I´m a painter by profession and have been aware of this phenomenen for years) is my right eye, yet I would, at any time, by instinct grab a bow with my right arm. No matter whether it is a modern bow with sighting device or a an "old fashioned" longbow.
With the modern bow and the sighting device I´d close my right eye, my dominant eye, and that doesn´t seem natural, does it?
With the longbow I know I wouldn´t close any of my eyes! (But I´d still hold it in my right arm, having the arrow resting on my left hand.)

Hmmmm....maybe I´m just a freak?
(And maybe we should transfer this discussion to www.archerscafe.com?)

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Søren

[joshro78]

Søren - I really meant with modern sighted bows, and it doesn't seem natural to close your dominant eye, BUT it is probably less of a factor with a bow as opposed to, say, a shotgun. And you're right - both eyes open with a longbow! Interestingly enough I have a good article about bows that the Saami people used to make. Really cool stuff. By the way, what kind of painting do you do?

[QUOTE](And maybe we should transfer this discussion to www.archerscafe.com?)

Yeah maybe we should!

[sjus]

Okay joshro, I get your point.

Saami people? Is that what you call the people of Northern Scandinavia that we call Samer/Laplænder? I´d be interested in reading that article!
I must say I haven´t done much archery in the past years, I don´t even have a bow anymore - sadly, but I have some out-of-fashion skies in the attic, ash-tree I think, and I´ve been thinking about making a bow out of one of them. (Then I can practice hip-hop-snowboard on the other....sdfjdfg!!!

My paintings? I´d be glad to show you:
You better go to my web and have a look for yourself, it´s down at the bottom of this post - and if it isn´t for some odd reason - here it is: www.sjuskunst.dk

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Søren