"A" model mandolins for Bluegrass?

[synthnut]

I'm new to mandolin playing,but do play other instruments....I notice that a lot of the "A" mandolin's that I have played ( very limited experience ) that they seem to have more sustain, and I guess are suited more for Celtic or ?? music .... I do however see mention on the forum about various " A" models that do sound good for Bluegrass and have a good "chop" ...
Out of the various companies, what "A" models seem to sound best for Bluegrass, with good chop, and a good throaty tone ? ..... My thoughts are that since I'm not a good player yet, and the A models seem to be built with better woods than the cheaper F models , maybe I'm better off getting an A model .....Again, I'm looking for something with decent chop, and a good throaty tone..
Does this exist in any of the A models out there ? ...
Thanks, and sorry if this has been asked before ....I tried searching the archives first ....Sincerely,Jim

[pickinNgrinnin]

A styles give more bang for the buck.

Cleared for BG playing:

Flatiron
Gibson
Summit
Weber - Beartooth, Absaroka
Collings
Stiver
Givens
Old Wave - I suspect Bill makes F hole A styles
Dearstone

Other suggestions will follow. Can't go wrong with the ones listed above.

[Ken Sager]

More bang for the buck is absolutely true. Some of the best sounding BG mandolins are the A models listed above. I'll second the Bozeman Flatiron A's, Collings, Summit, Givens, and especially Old Wave. Bill Bussman indeed makes F hole A mandolins and they're killer.

Oh, and doesn't Tim O'Brien play an A built by that lesser known Nugget guy?

[swampstomper]

Absolutely true -- you can't tell the difference blindfolded. Tim O'Brien got a pretty good BG sound from his A with Hot Rize.

About the price difference, a good example is from Lebeda (http://www.mandolins.net/lebeda.htm); I myself play an A master model. For the same wood and appointments:

A5 premium: $2400 list
F5 standard: $3800 list

and the A5 is even a bit nicer (figured maple back).

Some builders seem to save their better woods for their F's but it has nothing to do with the body shape, it's their profit margin (my theory).

[arbarnhart]

Make sure when you read the comparisons that you get the "hole" story (pun intended). The sound differences you describe are more oval hole versus F hole, not body style. As noted above, many F hole As are BG monsters.

[jim_n_virginia]

I go to a lot of jams here in Virginia and I have seen plenty of A style mandos playing BG. Only the snobs seem to be the ones who might say something. They are the same ones who say you can only play Celtic with an oval hole.

You can play any kind of mandolin you want with any kind of music. If you are good... you are good. And if you are bad... well blame it on the mandolin! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Don Christy]

arbarnhart nailed it.

The difference isn't body style, it's hole style/soundboard design. The f-holes will usually give you the more focused chop and projection that you want for BG.
Don

[arbarnhart]

BTW, just because I "nailed it", doesn't mean I completely believe it. I am an oval A guy, though I also am building a 2 point f hole. I don't play all that well and mostly play blues and folk. I got an oval A largely from the conventional wisdom that it is more suited to those genres, but also because I just like them. I don't really suffer from scroll envy. I want a vintage A4 or A2Z; not because I think it will play or sound tremendously better, just because I like the look, the feel and the history. Anyway, I do play some BG; it's just not my focus. It sounds okay on mine and I have heard others with more experience play mine and it sounds quite good. It's been said that it would not cut through the "wall of sound" in a big jam. I play blues with 3 guitars and can be heard. I play folk with two guitars, a bass and a piano and can be heard. I think it is a bit more subtle than some of the comments would make you think.

[Tim Saxton]

Keith Newell has a great mandolin A5 for sale on his website. I have played it and can vouch that it is quite a hoss. It is well in the money for how great it is.

[Celtic Saguaro]

Red Rector played a lot of Bluegrass with an oval hole Gibson A-Style.

[AlanN]

Yes to Red, Tim O too, Andy Statman too

[cutbait2]

I have a Sim Daley A-5. beats most F's I've heard. also had a nice Kimble A-5. the F is traditional and can be a work of art otherwise.....

[Andrew Reckhart]

I'll put my Stiver 'A' straight up with ANYTHING for Bluegrass (especially live). Anybody who has heard it will second that.

[mrbook]

I wonder what bluegrass players would have done if the (apparently) only Loar A5 had been in the barber shop window when Monroe passed by. Many good players use A models, and as noted above, some great players even use the ones with oval holes for bluegrass. Many people get a good instrument and try to make their best music with it; others, I think, spend time comparing instruments rather than playing. There is a place for that, but I don't think it changes the music that much.

[Jim Yates]

I've played bluegrass with A5 style, F5 style and oval hole mandolins and they all worked well for me. I must say that I prefered the A5 style, but that's just a personal thing. For fiddle tunes with just a guitar and/or clawhammer banjo I prefer an oval hole, but your question was about bluegrass. I also prefer the long neck of an A5 style for bluegrass over the short necked A style - also a personal thing, but shared with a lot of other bluegrassers.

[synthnut]

Thanks for all the input guys.....It seem's like the F hole A model will work fine depending on brand and construction ... I would look for an F model , but there really seem's to be a big difference in price .... I listened to a band in Staten Island , and the mando player had an A model ....Did n't look close enough to see the name on the headstock .....That mando had some serious chop, and kicked like a mule !!.... My ear is not bad, and that mando seemed to be one of the better sounding mando's that played that day .... Let me narrow things down one more time .....What brand should I look for used ( or new ) that would have a good BG sound in the $1,000 to $1500 range ..... Like I said, I am just starting out and don't want to go crazy right off the bat ....I won an Ebay auction on a Kentucky 350S A model w/F holes ....I know it won't be the greatest A model of all times, but it will do until I get a better one..
I've heard good things about the Collings MT ...I'm kinda wondering the difference between that , and I"m also looking at the Rigel A+ model .....Not sure which one would suit me better.....Or any others that would be good for my needs ? ..... You guy's have been at it a lot longer than I have .....I would rather hear it from word of mouth than from a salesman ....Thanks again ....It's much appreciated .......Sincerely, Jim

[pickinNgrinnin]

From my original list and now considering a 1K - 1.5k range, I'd be looking for used instruments in this lineup:

Gibson A9 - perhaps the least expensive of the group
Flatiron A Jr or Performer
Weber Absaroka
Collings MT - likely the most expensive of this group

The others I listed may be above your price range

I would not consider a Rigel A+ if you are primarily playing BG. The others give a better BG tone IMO. YMMV etc.

[handpicked]

Congrats...the Kentucky 350s is an excellent first mando...surprisingly good for the $$$...