what style to learn [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

johnM

Oct-14-2005, 9:51pm

Here's a question that has probably been gone over more than once. I'm a flatpick guitar player and i'm really enjoying playing the mandolin but the problem is that I really enjoy what guys like monroe, roland white and compton are doing but when I pick up the instrument I tend to lean more to the style of Adam Steffey or one of the more "notier" players. The one thing about this is that I "hear" the notier styles in my head but when I listen, I find the monroe style fastininating.

So what do I do?? Is there a way to beat this into my head or should I go with my gut and do what comes natually. This has been an ongoing problem for a while and I want to put it to bed and get on enjoying my mandolin.

Thanks in advance and Keep on pickin'\

jm

John Flynn

Oct-14-2005, 10:11pm

Well, I am a long-time player coming from a church music and old-time background, but I am just starting to play bluegrass seriously. I have an excellent young instructor who is very good mando player, but who comes from a guitar flat-picking background like you. He is into all variants of bluegrass, including newgrass, but he teaches straight-up monroe style in his class. His theory seems to be that Monroe style is the source and the standard. All the other players, including probably Steffy, who is also one of my favorites BTW, started on pure Monroe style and created thier variations from there. My theory is that no matter how hard I try to sound like Steffy, I never will. But if I learn basic bluegrass (Monroe) and then add my own personal touches, I will be able to do a great job of playing bluegrass, sounding like me. Just my two cents.

Dfyngravity

Oct-14-2005, 10:52pm

Well I pretty much play what I hear and what I like. I love to listen to Monroe style players, infact I just got done listening to the Del McCoury Band....Ronnie is a great picker, however I too also tend to play more of the newer style mando pickin. I guess it's two different schools of thought, one being like a shotgun and hit a whole lot at one time, the second being more like a sharp shooter where you are more precise with your playing, note by note. With that comes two different pick strokes, one being a flatter pick stroke(Monroe style) and the second is a pick stroke that has a little bit of a loop in it(Steffey/Thile).

My best advise would to be to do whatever feels more comfortable. Which ever style you choose remember to use a very loose wrist if possible and stay away from using more of an arm motion, unless you have injured your arm/wrist and that is the only way to do so.

mythicfish

Oct-16-2005, 7:13am

I've never known an artist who asked "Should I paint like Monet or Cezanne?"

Curt

johnM

Oct-16-2005, 9:29am

Yea good point, and I agree with all of you. Although I've had this dilema since I picked up the mandolin I've always played what came naturally to me. I guess done the same with the guitar and i'll go with my gut and play what I feel.

Sometimes we make it harder than it really is.......................

jm

mando bandage

Oct-16-2005, 9:33am

I think it's just a function of so many songs/styles/techniques, so little time.

R

AlanN

Oct-16-2005, 10:28am

If this is the johnM I am thinking of, you ain't got no worries, man. Just pick it the way you do http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

SternART

Oct-16-2005, 5:45pm

<<Should I paint like Monet or Cezanne>>

Both........on the road to finding your own voice many artists go thru phases of trying to emulate some of their art or mando heros.
It is a good way to see your personal limitations & better appreciate your heros, by trying to take apart some of what they have
created, see what makes it tick......and hopefully take away the essence of what makes it speak to you. From my experience though
nothing is eaten as hot as it is cooked. Very few can study Monroe for example, and recreate it, what seems like simple playing
can be quite complex once you delve into it. I'm sure the same can be said for Steffey. And I suspect Steffey went thru a Monroe
studing phase on his way up.......every generation stands on the shoulders of those that came earlier.

goose 2

Oct-16-2005, 6:42pm

I play tunes in both styles but I find it much more challenging to play the Monroe stuff. It sounds fairly simple when listening, but to master the right and to pull off the timing is exceptionally hard. Believe me I am trying. I happen to really like both styles though.

Peter Hackman

Oct-17-2005, 4:35am

Learn from everybody, think music, not style, absorb,
reject, put together, compose.

When I was learning I transcribed fiddle tunes
(Howdy Forrester's Fancy Fiddlin' Country Style),
which combine the elements on which to build a
vocabulary: scales and arpeggios. Then there were
some fiddle solos on Scruggs' instrumentals
like Earl's Breakdown, far more interesting
than the themes themselves. Oh, yes, by the way,
the fiddler was Howdy Forrester. From Monroe I learned
a little of his approach to the blues, then took off from
that. But mainly, it seems, I learned
from fiddle players.

And, of course, I always listened to, and used,
other genres, e.g., Western Swing.

picksnbits

Oct-17-2005, 8:56am

Well, I'm in the opposite boat. I've been wondering if I should clean my picking up a bit. I worry that I'm too gritty, too sloppy. I'm still listening pretty exclusively to Monroe, but I kinda wish I could play some of that clean pretty stuff, too.

What do you listen to the most? I think what you listen to tends to get burned into your head and then it tends to come out in your picking. Maybe McCoury(sp?) would be a good one to listen to for a while. He's got a good broad range of style. Or just immerse yourself in Monroe by listening to it constantly.

On the other hand, you're probably better at being you than anybody else.

arbarnhart

Oct-17-2005, 10:57am

I think it also comes down to what the point of your playing is. The portrait artist that draws or paints in the style his patrons desire will have more work to continue that analogy. I play mostly what I want to play, but my porch pickin' pals get to pick some selections also. Now I am getting pulled in another direction also; I took the mando along to the folk choir pot luck. My wife sings, but I had not been part of it (I am just now barely good enough). But they encouraged bringing instruments to the pot luck so I did. It was fun and the next thing I know they are all expecting me at the next practice. If you saw my response in the practice thread, there was nothing about drilling open chord strumming. Now there is...

mandocrucian

Oct-17-2005, 11:35am

and the answer is....
42!

(and incidentally, also answers the following dilemas as well)
Cooder or Moloney?
Hendrix or Hellecasters?
Cippolina or Sugarcane (Harris)?
Knoppfler or Renbourn?

Italian or Thai?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Peter Hackman

Oct-17-2005, 12:20pm

8STRINGR

Oct-19-2005, 9:04pm

Actually, if you go back a few months when Bluegrass Unlimited ran an article on Mountain Heart (which you probably already know that's who Adam Steffy is with now) BU also did an article in the same monthly issue on Steffy. Steffy gives credit of his learning to Dempsey Young (The Lost and Found) calling him (Dempsey) "...one of the Unsung Heroes of Bluegrass music to this day".

When I was first getting into bluegrass music and mandolin playing (about twenty years ago) I too enjoyed hearing Dempsey's style of mandolin and still do. I learned quite a bit from his style. I don't know right off the title ('cause it's been a while) but one of my first attempts at his style was in a tune what I believe was called "Left Over Me" #(left over bisciuts, left over ham....) Try out some "Dempsey Young" mandolin style! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

kudzugypsy

Oct-20-2005, 3:04pm

just my observations..
A LOT of mando pickers coming from guitar will have your problem (not really a "problem") - you really have to break yourself from thinking "guitaristicly". i had (still do) the same issues - until you see a real master on the mandolin - and how they make it sound like a mandolin and not a "little guitar". its just a different mindset, as you become more familiar with the mando, you can unlock some of its beauty, as a guitarist, it is just that you are transfering that knowledge to the mando, which will work, but i try to keep the two separate. the mandolin has a unique language all to its own, and to try and play it with another instruments language is going to cause you to loose sight of its potential.

evanreilly

Oct-21-2005, 8:12pm

I have the opposite problem; every one says my guitar playing on breaks sounds like my mandolin playing. Oh, well.

Yonkle

Oct-21-2005, 11:50pm

Who's the "Hottie"? Uhhh The one on the left! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

GTison

Oct-25-2005, 12:56pm

the pic is "Diana Christian" I believe. She used to sing on Monroe's shows in the late 80's & early 90's. I'm not sure they were ever an "item". That's hard to believe, though. Check this link out if you want to know about her.

news.com/index.php?sect_rank=1&volume_id=13

I chose to go in the Monroe direction because I knew that music the best. I liked McRenolds, Osborne, Young and some Grisman at the time. I ended up for years playing like many others as well, including Dempsey Young. Over time I have separated my own note and rhythm selections toward Monroe style. It is a choice you can make. I think your style reflects what you want it too. I also think starting out it would be difficult to master several styles and separate them as you play. When you are doing covers of other folks tunes, some people want you to play what they heard on someone elses record. That's a tall order. I think you should Learn what you LIKE to hear.

GVD

Oct-26-2005, 8:02am

8STRINGR Posted

... I don't know right off the title ('cause it's been a while) but one of my first attempts at his style was in a tune what I believe was called "Left Over Me" #(left over bisciuts, left over ham....)

That would be "Left Over Biscuits" and goes something like this:

Left over biscuits, left over ham
Left over gravy in an old fryin' pan
Left over coffee, left over tea
Now I'm all alone 'cause she done left over me.

GVD