Just a quick query....

[Rob Zamites]

Self-taught players, as a beginner, did you:

a) read lots of tabs to songs you liked and tried to play them all a bit at a time?

b) fixate on *one* particular tune and work on it until you mastered it?

c) actually make the effort to learn about music theory and reading dots?

d) a combination of the above?

I'm taking the approach of picking one to three of my favorites and practicing them, over and over and over -- via tabs and a chord book, since I've a pretty good ear and don't feel like learning to read the dots. Is this a bad approach to take?

N.B. My instrument is 23.5" scale length 'zouk, GDAe; not that it really matters
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[John Flynn]

None of the above for me. Both on the guitar, and later on the mandolin, I started strictly with chords and rhythm when I was first learning. Then, a bit later, I started experimenting with pentatonics and basic melodies by ear. I have learned to read notation and tab, but I use it only as a "crutch." When I can't get a tune by ear, I will refer to it and then get back into the "play by ear" realm as quickly as I can. I rarely wind up playing a tune exactly as it has been tabbed or notated by someone else anyway. I nearly always have some slight variation that sounds better to me. What I am doing lately is following the "Ear Training for Mandolin" CDs and learning to vocalize tunes I am learning and then I transfer them to the instrument. It takes some practice, but it really works!

[Jaus]

Good question.

I could already read standard notation, which I learned while learning the flute. However, I find it much more difficult to read standard notation with the mandolin. Not sure why, but my brain has a hard time seeing the little dots as a position on the mando's fretboard.

When I took to the mandolin, I started by getting a chord book and learning the cords, starting, of course, with the 2 finger cords. Then I learned a few easy songs by tabs (country roads, let it be, etc.) and praticed until either:

1: I could play them smoothly good without looking at my left hand or
2: My family fell on bended knee and begged me to learn a new song. I.E: "You play nice Daddy, but it always sounds the same". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I am the type who learns multiple songs, from multiple music styles, at once. However, it does take longer to master each song, but I find it less boring while practicing (after about 20 minutes with a song, I don't want to hear/play it anymore that day).

Now I concentrate on theory, since it really trancends instruments. It helps me learn to play melodies as well as chords. I experiement a lot and create my own songs, as well as try to play songs other people have written. Trying to play guitar songs on the mandolin is also quite interesting. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I spend a lot of time listening to both mandolin and guitar music and try to emulate what I like from the both of them.

Then sometimes I just turn the ol' amp up, set the distortion high and make lots of noise http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[danb]

I did B. Still do, one tune at a time, as much of the idiomatic stuff as I can, go back and re-learn them many times. Everyone learns better in different ways, the best is actually the one that motivates you the most and that you can keep going at!

Bouzoukis are less "Cast in stone" in terms of tuning and technique than mandolins, so you might do well with this approach. Teachers are helpful too, nice to mix in advice.

Things like holding picks and instruments are good to get from a teacher. Style.. musicality.. those are more individual IMO, so my attitude to learning in a class was to treat like a smorgasboard rather than a set menu

[arbarnhart]

I am a D guy, but I am all over every map I ever encounter (not just music).

[Peter Hackman]

Self-taught players, as a beginner, did you:

a) read lots of tabs to songs you liked and tried to play them all a bit at a time?

b) fixate on *one* particular tune and work on it until you mastered it?

c) actually make the effort to learn about music theory and reading dots?

d) a combination of the above?

I'm taking the approach of picking one to three of my favorites and practicing them, over and over and over -- via tabs and a chord book, since I've a pretty good ear and don't feel like learning to read the dots. Is this a bad approach to take?

N.B. My instrument is 23.5" scale length 'zouk, GDAe; not that it really matters
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
a) I've never used tab and there wasn't too much of it around
in the 60's, luckily. By the time I took up the mando,
after 8 years of guitar,I had liberated myself from
notation. Whatever study material I needed
was on LP records.

b) From the very beginning I was more set on doing and learning stuff, try out iedas that could be developed into
improvised solos. Of course, I always tried to compose
original pieces, too.

c) I could read,
which was both a good and a bad thing, and I knew enogh theory for my
immediate purposes. Later, when I
momentarily got fed up with Bluegrass,
I tried to expand my harmonic vocabulary, which has
helped me a lot regardless of genre.

[Rob Zamites]

I appreciate the feedback on this...I spent two hours last night picking out "Julia Delaney" -- I noticed however, that the way the tabbed version played out and what I had in my head were completely different. I'm determined to learn it the way this tabbed version has, then add my embellishments as I see fit! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Zed]

Being completely self-taught, I have found over the years that learning theory and reading standard notation to be nothing but 100% beneficial. I'm not to the point yet of being able to sight read at speed... and maybe never will, but that's not my intent. I learned to read for the purpose of learning new tunes. I learn them note-for-note from the written music, internalize that, and then do with it whatever i want, if anything.

The greatest benefit i've found in doing this is that when you're self taught you tend to find certain "pathways" and fingerings, phrasings and habits that you always rely on, even subconsciously (not saying this is a bad thing). When you learn a new tune strictly by ear you tend to build it on top of those same old pathways (again, not necessarily always a bad thing). By learning notation you open up a whole new world of other people's "pathways" and your fingers and brain learn to do things that you simply would never have come up with on your own.

For example, i just finally learned Roanoke, and learned it from a transcription. Right away i found myself stumbling in one particular place. It's a seemingly simple little twist of notes that involve a string crossing. Had i learned this tune by ear i would have tended to follow my own "pathways" and glossed over this place, IF i would have correctly heard it to begin with. I immediately learned something new, something my fingers had never come across before in years of playing.

Now believe me, i'm not trying to advocate that either reading or playing by ear is "better". I'm just saying that reading is a very worthwhile tool and very useful to those who also play be ear.

One last thing... when deciding whether i should take the time to learn either tab or std notation, i chose standard hands down. It doesn't take much more effort to learn it and your not limited by it in any way. You can pick up ANY piece of music and play it.

[gnelson651]

One last thing... when deciding whether i should take the time to learn either tab or std notation, i chose standard hands down. It doesn't take much more effort to learn it and your not limited by it in any way. You can pick up ANY piece of music and play it.


Amen Brother...

I started the mandolin by learning standard notation using my daughter's beginning violin book. I had also bought her a fiddle book ("The American Fiddle Method" vol. 1) and used this to learn fiddle tunes. The fiddle book had a nice progression of going from easy to more difficult so I learned both to read standand and tunes in short amount time.

I had played banjo for 30 years prior and learned by tab(and ear) but found tab was too limiting and limited. Since I was in a church band that used sheetmusic, trying to find tab was difficult. I now am performing with a manddoin ensemble where we use sheetmusic in a more classical approach, learning celtic, Italian, and classicial music.

I still love fiddle music and play at biweekly old-time jams. This group as two sets and I was able to find sheetmusic to these sets. I first learn the music note for note but soon add my own improvisations to fit in more with the group, along with rhythym and backup. I have to say that playing with a group, either structured (ensemble) and unstructured (OT jams) has greatly improved my playing. I also study music theory and believe it helps in understanding how to improvise.

BTW: I am self taught. I structure my practices with picking exercises, scales, arpeggios and learn a new tune a week. Also practice the OT jam sets and ensemble music. Somedays I just noodle but try to play each song without mistakes and work on the phrases were I do or to improve speed.

[groveland]

I'm a big proponent of locking yourself in a closet with LPs running at 16 rpm for four or five years. You get big ears that way - Something you don't achieve reading theory books or sheet music...

[250sc]

I think my answer has to be d but you left out an option that has helped me a lot. I like to use a slowdowner application and write transcribtions of solos that interest me. (Not only mandolin solos)

[Peter Hackman]

I'm a big proponent of locking yourself in a closet with LPs running at 16 rpm for four or five years. You get big ears that way - Something you don't achieve reading theory books or sheet music...
I learned a lot of tunes that way. Of course,
some records were 45 rpm played at 33, so
I had to transpose to the proper key.

But I believe I got even bigger ears when I bought
a new turntable without 16 rpm ...

Notation and theory. When I was very young I used to play
(guitar) with a friend who played
the tenor sax, then switched to
baritone. So, playing from his sheet music
I had to learn to sight-
transpose down a second or up a minor third.
That was very instructive, and is probably the reason I feel
at home in keys like E flat and B flat on guitar and mandolin.

[billkilpatrick]

all this is like a letter from home ...

i just can't believe how difficult it is for me to follow the little dots, as you say, or even read tabs to get the thing down right. #youthful folly and wretched excess may have done more harm up top than previously reckoned.

i start out with the best of intentions to finally get to grips with notation but after a while ... i usually end up playing the cd over and over till i can hum the tune and if necessary, look it up on internet and follow the dots to the part i couldn't get by ear. #for me, instrumental pieces are much more difficult to remember than a simple melody with lyrics. #

god i wish i was bright - i'm sure life would be a whole lot easier.

- bill

[groveland]

But I believe I got even biger ears when I bought
a new turntable without 16 rpm ...

Excellent! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif