What's the difference between an A and F style?

[Pacomax]

What defines a "bluegrass" mandolin? I appreciate the replies to my 1st post and I think that I better slow down some and learn more before I run out and buy the wrong mandolin! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Please keep helping me make a right decision. I will not be playing along with anyone most of the time, just along with an acoustic guitar on occasion.

[sunburst]

I suppose I would define a bluegrass mandolin as;
a mandolin used to play bluegrass.

To get the sound that is most often associated with bluegrass music, I'd say F-holes are probably the most important feature, along with the carved top and back plates. The longer neck like on the F5 style mandolin, and the type of "bracing" can contribute also, but, the "prototype" bluegrass mandolin is; carved top, carved back, F-hole, floating bridge.

[FlawLaw]

I suppose I would define a bluegrass mandolin as;
a mandolin used to play bluegrass.

To get the sound that is most often associated with bluegrass music, I'd say F-holes are probably the most important feature, along with the carved top and back plates. The longer neck like on the F5 style mandolin, and the type of "bracing" can contribute also, but, the "prototype" bluegrass mandolin is; carved top, carved back, F-hole, floating bridge.
Yep, what sunburst said...Most bluegrassers play with an F style, but there are some who play with the A style, such as Tim O'Brien. #I think that that F style in bluegrass is influenced by Bill Monroe and the fact that the F style may be a bit louder. If you go to festivals, maybe you will see more F style mandolins. #I play a lot of newgrass (albeit with my upright bass) and I personally am an A style fan myself. #I like the way they look. #I would recommend that you do a search of the forums and you can find a lot of information on this very topic.

[Jim Yates]

I've seen the comment that most bluegrassers play an F style, and I agree. I've always assumed that this was for appearance, but comments such as FlawLaw's:and the fact that the F style may be a bit louder" make me wonder,"How do a scroll and a point add volume or tone to an instrument?" Aren't they solidwood? Since many current A style mandolins are modeled after the A5,(f-holes, and long scale) I'd think they'd sound the same, all other things being equal or better than an F style.
I realize a lot more work and time goes into building a scroll and point, making an F-style more expensive, but isn't it all cosmetic? I've asked this before, but never had it answered satisfactorily.

[Pedal Steel Mike]

for whatever it's worth, I've been told that the differences between an F style and an A style are purely cosmetic and there is no difference whatsoever in the sound.

It seems to me that what and how well you play is more important than what kind of mando you use. If you play well, I doubt that anybody will complain if you have the "wrong" mandolin.

[arbarnhart]

I'll stay out of the A versus F debate. My ears note only a little difference, but I think that is because I am not attuned to the subtleties, But on the subject of what makes a mando suitable for BG, I do have one idea...

I am not a "real" BG player per se; I play a couple of BG songs poorly and having an F style or holes wouldn't fix that. But one difference is that my mando's nut is cut for light strings. If I try medium or heavy, the G and D strings will not drop into the grooves. Medium to heavy strings seem to be more popular with BG players. Thes strings also require more tension and could potentially damage a top that was made for lighter strings (I think the Phoenix Neoclassical has a clause in the warranty about using only light strings, but the Phoenix Neobluegrass has no problem with big honkin' cables).

[sunburst]

If you play well, I doubt that anybody will complain if you have the "wrong" mandolin.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I wish that was true.
There are those that will get their shorts in a wad over the use of the "wrong" instrument, meaning one that doesn't look like they think it should look, or has the "wrong" name on the headstock.

Pete Langdell (of Rigel) has told me that people, traditionalists, that is, will walk up to him at a show or display and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is building mandolins wrong. "Mandolins don't look like that!"

You have to be tough to play bluegrass on the "wrong" instruments.

[cgwilsonjr]

I personally favor top quality A-styles. I recently played two well broken-in Randy Wood mandolins, an A and and F. Both sounded strong and fantastic and I wouldn't say one sounded "better" than the other but the F was almost twice as much. I have an A style Brentrup and Collings and can't imagine the F versions sounding "better" (but I never directly compared them).

[ab4usa]

I have an Old Wave A5 (f holes) and never get an odd look at jams but when all I had was my Mid-Mo I got some strange looks.

[Dixieland]

[/QUOTE]Pete Langdell (of Rigel) has told me that people, traditionalists, that is, will walk up to him at a show or display and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is building mandolins wrong. "Mandolins don't look like that!"

You have to be tough to play bluegrass on the "wrong" instruments.


Was at a Blugrass Festival a couple of weeks ago; after seeing several bands with all playing Gibson F5's. Then came Randy Waller and The New Country Gentleman first thing I noticed was their Mandolinist playing a Rigel G110...this guy was great! It seemed good to see and know that you don't have to have a Gibson F5 to play top notch bluegrass. #I highy recommend seeing Randy Waller and his band , they were very "tight" and "professional"..

[Big Joe]

There may be some subtle tonal differences due to the extra mass on an F model, but one of the more significant reasons I like an F model is the balance. A mandolins sound quite nice, but they are harder to balance on or off the strap. The feel of a well crafted F model is far more comfortable than most A's. I have played some great A's. One was a Flatiron that would peel paint it was so lound and has an incredible chop. The other was a Gilchrist A we sold a fiddle player. It was absolutely beautiful (as all of Steve's work is) and the sound was beyond belief. Still, the comfort factor is what drives me. I found that to be the deciding factor for me before I even knew who Bill Monroe was. Or Bluegrass for that matter.

[arbarnhart]

My mando has an oddball combination - A body with the F style peg head. I got a flat strap that included a short cord as the A style adapter. I ran the cord through the scroll on the peghead and attached it to the strap there (it is just barely clear of the tuners, but barely is enough). I go across the back, not just over one shoulder. This is a pretty low quality picture:

http://home.nc.rr.com/abhobby/images/washburn-strapped.JPG

but you can see it balances fine, hands free. The strap is unfinished on the underside, which keeps it from slipping around much. I wear it standing and sitting. It's extremely comfortable.

[elenbrandt-redux]

Truthfully -- price and where you hang your strap. IMHO http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Pedal Steel Mike]

Pete Langdell (of Rigel) has told me that people, traditionalists, that is, will walk up to him at a show or display and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is building mandolins wrong. "Mandolins don't look like that!"[/QUOTE]
I wonder if anybody ever said the same thing to Orville Gibson or Lloyd Loar.

[gnelson651]

The other was a Gilchrist A we sold a fiddle player.
Must have been a hellava fiddle player to get a Gilchrist out of the deal # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[luckylarue]

Bluegrass is more than a mandolin...it's a state of mind.

[Pacomax]

I thought it started in the "state" of Kentucky! [B] http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
From what I have seen, I am sure that you could give a good bluegrass musician any decent mandolin, A or F and within a short time, they would play good bluegrass on it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[AndyG]

The snob thing happens with guitars as well-heaven forbid you should show up at a BG jam with anything other than a D18 or 28.Pathetic and brain dead attitude.

[merv]

Should see some of the looks I have gotten, when the case is opened and they see a Fender baby strat as I call it . In defense of grassers they have always been helpful with tips on playing .

[TonyP]

I always feel weird because I ended up with and F, but that's not what I first fell in love with. The one that I first realized was my dream axe was not traditional looking at all. There are several reason I have that Newson F5, one being it showed up right after I'd tried to get the dough together for my dream axe, and it got sold the day before I could get the money. But it has that sound for me. It's the SOUND that matters. The hard part when you are just starting is knowing what that sound is, and also how to get it out of a good instrument. THE loudest mando I ever heard was a Givens A, being played near by with a full on PA powered BG band going on stage and the Givens drowned them out. That's loud. I know this may be confusing, but everybody has given good info, it's just not a simple formula to find a good bluegrass mando. Maybe to some, but some of us have been lucky enough to find that special mando that speaks to us, and maybe not to others. I just encourage you not to get in a hurry and play as many as possible, however impossible that may seem right now. I would agree F holes, even though Andy Statman did a great job with his round hole, same with Eric Thompson. Other than that it's hard to give hard and fast rules.