Mics seen in No Direction Home

[Don Grieser]

In several clips from the Newport festival, they're using two mics shaped a little like SM58s pointed straight up. There's also some hanging above the performers. The set-up sure picked up everything.

How about the studio set-up for recording voice/harmonica and guitar all at the same time?

Comments anyone? Spruce?

[Spruce]

What a coincidence...

I wondered the same thing (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/browse_thread/thread/080a67263ac142f0/7d7857c1012befcb?hl=en#7d7857c1012befcb) this morning....

We'll know the answer soon, as there is someone who hangs at at the group who probably set up the Newport mics....

Oh, and you can bet they aren't SM58s...
I did recognize an AKG C12 onstage, something that would set you back 7-8K or so these days....
I'm sure the 2 mics mounted side-by-side are something equally as spendy...
I'm guessing Neumann omnis, as they were pointed towards the ceiling...
But I really don't know...

Sounded good, didn't it?

[Don Grieser]

Yes, it sounded wonderful.

How about the studio set-up? Do you think they got any separation or did they just make it work with the bleed they got?

[Spruce]

What, the shots from Columbia Studios on 30th St.?

Man, the 60's were all about bleed...
Set up the band in a big room (in the case of 30th St., a verrrry big room--100 ft. high ceilings!), open up the mics, and away you go...

Motown, Abbey Road, Chess, Stax, Sun, RCA B, etc. etc. were all designed to record a band playing all at once in a well-chosen or designed room....

What a concept!

A great read is "Temples of Sound--Inside the Great Recording Studios" by Jim Cogan and William Clark.
They document all the above studios, and then some.

Good talent playing in a good room is what is was all about...

A lot of studios are getting back into that way of recording, BTW....

[djweiss]

I'm reading "Simple Twist of Fate", which is about the recording session(s) for Blood on the Tracks. One point which was raised a few times was that vocal bleed into the guitar mike was intended, and gave *that* sound...

[Spruce]

"I'm reading "Simple Twist of Fate", which is about the recording session(s) for Blood on the Tracks."

Have you heard "Blood on the Tapes" (http://uncut.net/music/bob_dylan/special_features/398)...?

I actually like it better than the official release...
It's a very cool listen...

[djweiss]

Another mystery of life solved...Thanks, Spruce.

[steve V. johnson]

With that studio mic'ing set-up, a pretty good amount of separation can be achieved. I still use that basic set-up these days. It's about 50/50 whether or not the leakage is little enough to allow either the guitar or the vocal to be replaced. Sometimes it can, sometimes not. When the singer is dynamic, emphatic (read: loud) fuggedaboudit. It works the other way too, a loud guitar with a soft singer and you're stuck with that take or another one. <GG>

I think that the mics onstage at Newport are Neumann KM-183 omni condensor mics with 'zeppelin' windscreens. I seem to remember reading that somewhere. In any case they are either Neumanns or AKGs (c45_ something), and from the way the techie tips them -up- to look up at the sky, I believe that they are omni-pattern. Omnis have virtually no off-axis coloration, which is to say, they hear equally well at almost any angle (except perhaps from the back end of the preamp 'handle' <G>) and that's why the windscreen is a spherical shape.

There are a lot of really interesting mics in the film, including large-diaphragm condensor mics onstage that would never leave the studio today, and have appreciated about 600% in value, too. In the scene labeled a 'song workshop' at Newport, the one with the stripey background, there is an old mic in a suspension mount, probably a ribbon mic, but I don't recall the maker just now. Of course, there weren't stage monitors, and the main speakers were pretty small (albeit quite hi-fi) so big condensor mics could be very effective.

I am very eager to buy a copy of the DVD and spend some time making mic notes... <GG>

Thanks for the notes on "Simple Twist of Fate" and "Blood On The Tapes", too!

stvaudiogeek

[steve V. johnson]

Oh, the other really cool thing was the pair of similar mics (maybe the Neumann KM-183 omnis) suspended from the wire at the edge of the stage! Nice!!

stv

[Rich Breen]

I think that the mics onstage at Newport are Neumann KM-183 omni condensor mics with 'zeppelin' windscreens. #I seem to remember reading that somewhere. ...
Unlikely since the 180 series was only introduced by Neumann in the last 10 years. #Also, you'll notice all the mics we're talking about on the DVD had Tuchel connectors on them.

I've posted in another thread about this, but here's a copy of that post:
---

Yea - I too was curious and have been hunting around a bit but have yet to find anyone who *definitively* knows (i.e. someone who was on the crew there). #Likely candidates are Neumann KM56 (side adress), KM53 (omni) or KM54 (cardioid). #But really I think they're probably Schoeps 221s (http://www.mikrofonbau.de/m221_e.htm), which had a series of interchangeable capsules (some of which were side-address). #If I hear anything definitive, I'll post again.

Best,
rich

[Spruce]

"...there is an old mic in a suspension mount, probably a ribbon mic, but I don't recall the maker just now"

That was an AKG D30...
It looks like it was a fan's mic...

It's a dynamic, and famous for being the Beatle's kick drum mic...

[steve V. johnson]

Rich Breen sez: "Unlikely since the 180 series was only introduced by Neumann in the last 10 years. Also, you'll notice all the mics we're talking about on the DVD had Tuchel connectors on them.

---

Yea - I too was curious and have been hunting around a bit but have yet to find anyone who *definitively* knows (i.e. someone who was on the crew there). Likely candidates are Neumann KM56 (side adress), KM53 (omni) or KM54 (cardioid). But really I think they're probably Shoeps 221s, which had a series of interchangeable capsules (some of which were side-address). "

Oh, yeah, well done! Thanks! I didn't think back far enough, to the KMs. The zeps definitely suggest the 221s, too.

Thanks very much!

stv

[Spruce]

"The zeps definitely suggest the 221s, too."

The zeps are the reason we can't ID the mics, and with the exception of the "sock" over the C12, seem to be on every "official" mic at Newport...

They are probably the most defining piece of gear there, and I don't think are associated with any mic brand....

But every time I see old footage or photos with those wind-screens, I think "Newport" (http://www.cookephoto.com/hurt2.html)...

[Rich Breen]

"The zeps definitely suggest the 221s, too."

The zeps are the reason we can't ID the mics, and with the exception of the "sock" over the C12, seem to be on every "official" mic at Newport...

They are probably the most defining piece of gear there, and I don't think are associated with any mic brand....

But every time I see old footage or photos with those wind-screens, I think "Newport" (http://www.cookephoto.com/hurt2.html)...
Take a look at this Schoeps - that's from the early '70s, so might be just slightly wrong vintage (might be a CMT as opposed to an M221), but I think it's probably the culprit. Oh, and I think the windscreen came in a couple different sizes too...:
http://home.earthlink.net/~richbreen/Schoeps.jpg. #

[Spruce]

Interesting...

Not quite, but close....

Here's (http://www.cookephoto.com/docwatson3.html) a shot of Doc from Newport that show the mics/screens pretty well...

Is that a tuchel connector on the Schoeps?

[Spruce]

Here's a closer pic of the Newport mic....

[Rich Breen]

Interesting...

Not quite, but close....

Here's (http://www.cookephoto.com/docwatson3.html) a shot of Doc from Newport that show the mics/screens pretty well...

Is that a tuchel connector on the Schoeps?
Hey that's good detective work - yep, think it's definitely a Schoeps. Same shock mount, slightly larger windscreen (Schoeps did and does make a windscreen that size in addition to the one I pictured - just don't have a picture from the vintage catalog), and yes, tuchel connector.

Thanks Bruce!

[Spruce]

OK, Schoeps it is...

I believe the Schoeps were multi-capsule mics, so I'm kinda interested in the pattern, considering how they had them set up onstage at Newport...

Sure sounds and acts like an omni, and there probably weren't any monitors around to get in the way....

This could change the answer to the whole "What's the Best Single-Mic Setup for a Bluegrass Band" conundrum, considering that monitors don't come into play these days anyway when using the "one-mic" solution...
Why not try a good omni??

Here's a pic of a couple guys working an EV 655c omni dynamic at the Seattle Center in the 60's...

[steve V. johnson]

You guys are fantastic!! What fun! Thanks!

"This could change the answer to the whole "What's the Best Single-Mic Setup for a Bluegrass Band" conundrum, considering that monitors don't come into play these days anyway when using the "one-mic" solution...
Why not try a good omni??"

Great question! Omnis have sort of been left out of the recent Cheap Chinese Condensor Gold Rush... <G> When there are $60 omni condensors all over the place we'll see... <GGG>

stv

[mandopete]

Man, this thread is almost as much fun as Darryl's pictures over the bluegrass section!

[Don Grieser]

Harvey Gerst over at the Home Recording bbs thinks those mics at Newport are Neumann KM56 with Sennheiser silk windscreens. FWIW

[Spruce]

He would know.....

Here's (http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=171599) the link....

It sure doesn't look like the cabling associated with a Neumann tube mic, but Harvey would know....