Artistworks question

[Matt79]

I know there have been plenty of post on the Artistworks lessons, but I couldn't find an answer to my specific question. One of the problems that I've had with free YouTube video lessons is that they generally don't lay out a "roadmap" or method so to speak. I feel that books are better at this in a lot of ways. You start at page 1 and move on from there. Are Mike's videos laid out in a recommended order where each lesson builds upon the next giving you a logical sequence of what to learn when? I don't seem to do well with a site that has 50 videos in random order where you just jump in and watch whatever one you want.

Thanks

[Sue Rieter]

Matt, this was my self study issue as well. Mike's lessons are in sequence, and when you video him, he gives you feedback on what to work on next. I've been working on his lessons since January, and for me, I like it alot. You can go at your own pace, but it is directed. As far as books, I recently got a copy of Don Julins Mandolin for Dummes. It's super good. I wish I bought it at the beginning, but I was put off by the name.

[Matt79]

Matt, this was my self study issue as well. Mike's lessons are in sequence, and when you video him, he gives you feedback on what to work on next. I've been working on his lessons since January, and for me, I like it alot. You can go at your own pace, but it is directed. As far as books, I recently got a copy of Don Julins Mandolin for Dummes. It's super good. I wish I bought it at the beginning, but I was put off by the name.

Thanks for the response. That was what I needed to know. I'll look into the book as well

[Sue Rieter]

If you don't already have it, Duke Sharp's Garage Band Theory is another winner.

BTW I bought both of these books from the authors directly vs. from the Big South American River.

[CBFrench]

I don't know what level player you are, beginner, semi-intermediate, any musical background etc? I'm no good at answering questions especially not knowing where a person is musically. I'm a home player and an ear player and in no hurry or no necessity to play at a certain level, all my playing and practicing is strictly for my musical enjoyment. From my little personal, musical background and circumstances I didn't care at all for Artisworks flatpicking guitar lessons. I just simply didn't like the teaching methods. I liked Peghead Nation much more with Scott Nygard. I took several of their mandolin courses also that were really good in my view

There is a lot of good learning material on Youtube you just have to find the right person. I like actually seeing a vid, if I can hear and like the melody I may stumble around some but can normally find it. I only work on tunes that I want to learn and not because they're popular at get togethers since I don't do get togethers and don't get stuck on one genres. https://www.mandolinsecrets.com/ here's a good site and also Wayne World https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJG1d-SQ7ELyhh1Yhs6-7Q that is if you are a hear, see, feel type of player

[Matt79]

I'm a beginner for sure, and I can play a few tunes, but that's kind of what I'm trying to get away from, just learning tune after tune. I like the idea of learning a tune, and a basic technique the or theory behind it at the same time. I guess what I don't want is to end up having a certain amount of songs under my belt, without getting to know the instrument itself if that makes sense. I'm not looking to read standard notation or anything, but understanding the scales and how to apply them, and learning to play out of chord shapes and stuff like that seems like it would be pretty useful down the road.

I've actually contacted Wayne about private lessons, but I'm trying to decide if I would get more bang for my buck with a month's worth of Artistworks for the price on one private lessons. If money wasn't an issue, I'd certainly do both.

[Don Grieser]

If you're a beginner, I'd recommend in-person or private video lessons. I saw beginners with messed up pick direction and other problems on Artistworks, but they don't get a response for 2 weeks on their video submissions. In the meantime, they've been cementing those problems by continuing to practice with pick direction problems while waiting for the response. It's easier to correct those common problems if they are caught right away. That's one of the problems I saw on Artistworks for beginners.

[Joed]

As a guitar player learning mandolin I like the Mike Marshall lessons allot. He's a good teacher and comes across as a real good guy. The learning curve is probably pretty steep, though I've skipped ahead some. The chords he's got to Over the Rainbow are fine. There's some inspirational playing in his lessons. It's good for skipping around. For an absolute beginner some book reinforcement is a good idea as mentioned.

[Rob Fowler]

As a current student of ArtistWorks, and more of an intermediate player I have been sooooooo happy with having this resource. Even though it does take Mike around 10+ days to respond to your video submission he hones in exactly with what issues he is seeing and recommends what steps to take to fix whatever issue it is he is pointing out. There are a ton of beginners on there and I watch many of the video exchanges which is great because you learn from each one. And then the price is such a great deal. I just can't say enough good things about Mike Marshall's mandolin school and feel I have improved leaps and bounds since I started last February. Hope this helps.

[Sue Rieter]

If you're a beginner, I'd recommend in-person or private video lessons. I saw beginners with messed up pick direction and other problems on Artistworks, but they don't get a response for 2 weeks on their video submissions. In the meantime, they've been cementing those problems by continuing to practice with pick direction problems while waiting for the response. It's easier to correct those common problems if they are caught right away. That's one of the problems I saw on Artistworks for beginners.

That's a good point, for sure, and something I've thought about. However, frequent in-person lessons would add up in cost quick. Not that I don't think the instructors' time is worth the price, because I do. But if you don't have the budget and only meet with the teacher occasionally, you might be going without feedback for almost as long as it takes to hear back from your ArtistWorks teacher.

[joh]

Like Sue, I've been a member since January. I have almost no formal music background and no experience with string instruments, so was in need of structure.

Mike Marshall's course is laid out in a very reasonable linear order and I can tell there is an underlying theory to the order that concepts are introduced. As a true beginner I've noticed that Mike emphasizes learnings new tunes ("building repertoire"). I believe this is because he views learning proper technique (good mechanics, good posture, etc.) to be the most important aspect in one's early stages and that tackling a variety of songs without dwelling on the more "heady" concepts facilitates that process. As the curriculum advances (I've watched most of the beginner curriculum at this point, even though I haven't actually worked on the entire curriculum yet), he gradually introduces more of those heady concepts - how chord formations, the advantages of being tuned in fifths, etc..

And of course, the best part of ArtistWorks is the personalization you get through submitting videos. Mike is a very enjoyable person to interact with, an excellent teacher (not true of all ArtistWork instructions IMO!), and really is able to pin point and hone in on a student's problem areas quickly. He is also game for just about anything - your video submissions can stick to the curriculum or you can submit something you've been working on outside of the curriculum. You can ask about technique, theory, composing, etc.. Despite not being classically trained, Mike has a lot of skills you might expect of such a musician - in addition to his skill set from being a virtuoso and professional musician - so he can really tackle a very broad set of topics.

[lostsailor]

I'll second (or third) the recommendation of Mike Marshall's ArtistWorks lessons. Above all, he's an excellent TEACHER--and not everyone is. I've been a student of his for about a year and have learned a lot. Try it for a month and see if it's right for you. They often have discounts, and I think it's a bargain.

[pops1]

Beginners might consider a private lesson to start with to get proper pick control and basic technique before going on with a group lesson.

[darylcrisp]

i've used artistworks yrs ago when it started up, have recently used PegheadNation with Sharon Gilchrist, both excellent, different style of teaching. For me i learned quicker and better with PegheadNation, you might check into a trial subscription, PegheadNation has offered 30 days free at times, not sure about artistworks.

another online site that i've recently gotten involved with and find it amazing is the author of the book "Mandolin for Dummies" Don Julin. I really like the lesson presentations and the techniques given. Presentation is very easy to understand and he really knows how to break things down step by step so you understand fast.
Don works you on skills and techniques that instill proper playing right off the start line. Very impressed with the lesson plans.

https://www.mandolinshealtheworld.com/
https://mandolins-heal-the-world.mykajabi.com/offers/XFr5rRgc/checkout

https://mandolins-heal-the-world.mykajabi.com/vsl-bluegrass

[Sue Rieter]

Beginners might consider a private lesson to start with to get proper pick control and basic technique before going on with a group lesson.

There will probably be group lessons available again in not too long. I think this could be a pretty fun way to learn.

[CBFrench]

Rereading your question I dunno for everyone starts from a different point and I'm definitely not the one to recommend a path. I was just going from where I'm at and what I'm looking for. Best I remember 3 months is minimum subscription time on Artistworks and I only lasted 3 days but then I have no interest in making videos and asking for improvement advice but that's just me and means nothing. I jumped around in Peghead and went from Sharon to Joe to John all excellent players and it was a free month trial when I joined. I'm unorganized and that's fine with me, ain't like I'm going anywhere but the patio.

[Alex Orr]

I can't speak to Mike's mando lessons on ArtistWorks, but I've been less than impressed with Michael Daves' bluegrass vocal course and Nathan East's bass course. Nathan's course is embarassingly bad. The camera work is not great, the sound is frequently muffled, and the lessons are about 3-5 minutes each and frequently consist of Nathan running over a concept in a few words and then just noodling for a few minutes. Daves' course is a little better. His first section on lead singing and how melodies work is pretty solid, but his section on harmony singing leaves a lot to be desired. For me, at least, that was the main thing I wanted to learn about in great detail and IMO he could have made it a much stronger module. Both of these guys are world-class musicians and I know Daves also teaches, so I honestly think a lot of the fault lies with the ArtistWorks' folks. I feel like in those courses they simply did a poor judge executing on an educational product. It seems like they were simply trying to get as much content taught in a day or two just so they could throw it all up on the website ASAP. The fact that there are about forty lessons (all under 5 minutes each) where Nathan is wearing the same shirt suggests it was pretty rushed. Also, they hardly ever seem to update courses once the go up on the site. One of the great things about PegHead Nation is that the lessons seem to be longer with the instructors taking more time to explain things, and they add a new lesson every couple of weeks. Granted, some of that success may simply be due to the instructors I've subscribed to on the site. Sharon Gilchrist, in particular, simply has an incredible gift for teaching. Compton is also pretty good, though I do feel he occassionally glides over some parts that justify some greater explanation, plus, in many cases what he's teaching does not much the accompanying tab/sheet music.

[Chuck Leyda]

Mike Marshall is a really good teacher. If you're able to send in videos he will really focus on whatever you need. As long as you send in videos it's the best of both worlds. A huge online database and a personal instructor.

Peghead is great too. Awesome instructors, high production values, and easy to switch back and forth among courses. Less lag than Artistworks.

Don't forget Banjo Ben. His website is really well laid out. He's a good teacher and he really cranks out the content.

[tmsweeney]

+1 on Banjo Ben.
Mike Marshall at artist works does give you a path that lets you mark your accomplishments as you progress, and there is no fixed time limit so you can take 1 week on one lesson and 6 months on the next if that's what works for you.
Kind of best of both worlds- structured and relaxed at the same time. I did take a year of Artist Works but only submitted one video which Mike thoroughly reviewed in a way that was very helpful to my playing, but I was distracted by many other things at that time and so could not really commit to making the best of that resource.

I do have to plug Wayne Benson for one on one video, he is very into theory and the mechanics of making music on the mandolin. For me anyway his style of teaching has been very effective, Wayne does try to focus on what is relative to your needs.

[Matt79]

+1 on Banjo Ben.
Mike Marshall at artist works does give you a path that lets you mark your accomplishments as you progress, and there is no fixed time limit so you can take 1 week on one lesson and 6 months on the next if that's what works for you.
Kind of best of both worlds- structured and relaxed at the same time. I did take a year of Artist Works but only submitted one video which Mike thoroughly reviewed in a way that was very helpful to my playing, but I was distracted by many other things at that time and so could not really commit to making the best of that resource.

I do have to plug Wayne Benson for one on one video, he is very into theory and the mechanics of making music on the mandolin. For me anyway his style of teaching has been very effective, Wayne does try to focus on what is relative to your needs.

Wayne definitely seems like a great teacher. His YouTube videos are very thorough which is why I reached out to him regarding private lessons. Dave Benedict is the same way. I'm just not sure which give you the most bang for your buck, private lessons or something like ArtistWorks since on 1/2 private lesson is the same cost as one month of ArtistWorks. If I could afford the 1/2 hour lessons once a week, it would be a no brainer, but right not I'd be looking at every other week.

[Matt79]

I can't speak to Mike's mando lessons on ArtistWorks, but I've been less than impressed with Michael Daves' bluegrass vocal course and Nathan East's bass course. Nathan's course is embarassingly bad. The camera work is not great, the sound is frequently muffled, and the lessons are about 3-5 minutes each and frequently consist of Nathan running over a concept in a few words and then just noodling for a few minutes. Daves' course is a little better. His first section on lead singing and how melodies work is pretty solid, but his section on harmony singing leaves a lot to be desired. For me, at least, that was the main thing I wanted to learn about in great detail and IMO he could have made it a much stronger module. Both of these guys are world-class musicians and I know Daves also teaches, so I honestly think a lot of the fault lies with the ArtistWorks' folks. I feel like in those courses they simply did a poor judge executing on an educational product. It seems like they were simply trying to get as much content taught in a day or two just so they could throw it all up on the website ASAP. The fact that there are about forty lessons (all under 5 minutes each) where Nathan is wearing the same shirt suggests it was pretty rushed. Also, they hardly ever seem to update courses once the go up on the site. One of the great things about PegHead Nation is that the lessons seem to be longer with the instructors taking more time to explain things, and they add a new lesson every couple of weeks. Granted, some of that success may simply be due to the instructors I've subscribed to on the site. Sharon Gilchrist, in particular, simply has an incredible gift for teaching. Compton is also pretty good, though I do feel he occassionally glides over some parts that justify some greater explanation, plus, in many cases what he's teaching does not much the accompanying tab/sheet music.

Thanks for the input. I hadn't really thought much about PegHead Nation. I'll have to look into it. I guess I just got hung up on the idea of learning from Mike Marshall. Good to know about the short lessons, it would bother me if the lessons felt rushed.

[Matt79]

If you're a beginner, I'd recommend in-person or private video lessons. I saw beginners with messed up pick direction and other problems on Artistworks, but they don't get a response for 2 weeks on their video submissions. In the meantime, they've been cementing those problems by continuing to practice with pick direction problems while waiting for the response. It's easier to correct those common problems if they are caught right away. That's one of the problems I saw on Artistworks for beginners.

That's a really good point. Thanks.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Waiting for a response to video submissions is the only downside for me. I've been a student of Mike's and am currently having guitar lessons from Bryan Sutton on Artistworks. The personal feedback and direction are priceless, especially given a) I could never afford lessons one on one from these guys and b) I live in the UK so it wouldn't be an option anyway. It can be tough to wait a week (in Bryan's case, a little longer for Mike), and it's occasionally frustrating not to be able to respond immediately to ask a question or clarify something. But, for the price of a beer or two a week, it's amazing for me.

[Sue Rieter]

Wayne definitely seems like a great teacher. His YouTube videos are very thorough which is why I reached out to him regarding private lessons. Dave Benedict is the same way. I'm just not sure which give you the most bang for your buck, private lessons or something like ArtistWorks since on 1/2 private lesson is the same cost as one month of ArtistWorks. If I could afford the 1/2 hour lessons once a week, it would be a no brainer, but right not I'd be looking at every other week.

I think if I had the budget and time, and wasn't kind of (actually, very) apprehensive about live video lessons, I would go with Wayne Benson. I read in the blog of the late Dr. Tom Bibey (just heard after reading both his great books this is a pseudonym!?) that Wayne has a real talent for teaching left brained people to "transfer that intellectual knowlege to the right side". I'm pretty left brained, so this sounds pretty good to me. For right now, though, the price was right for ArtistWorks and I'm appreciating moving at a slower pace. At some point, when this covid stuff is over with, I'd love to sit with someone live. That's just me, though, YMMV.

Matt posted while I was typing. There can be a frustration factor in not being able to have questions generated by the video response answered in something close to real time. That's probably the biggest down side for me.

[Southern Man]

Thanks for the input. I hadn't really thought much about PegHead Nation. I'll have to look into it. I guess I just got hung up on the idea of learning from Mike Marshall. Good to know about the short lessons, it would bother me if the lessons felt rushed.

I have done both the ArtistWorks and the PegHead Nation courses. I personally struggled with the ArtistWorks and had much better success with PegHead Nation. A lot of that was directly on the issue you mentioned, I found myself struggling to follow the ArtistWorks course in a linear manner and mark progress. There was just a huge amount of material and I found myself too tempted to skip around. I also did not take advantage of submitting the videos, which is one of the things that is distinctive about ArtistWorks.

I have struggled with online learning in general in a number of different areas, everything from graduate level courses to hobby classes. I had taken some in-person classes and enjoyed them and would not have gone the online method at all except for the pandemic. I am sure my relative struggles say a lot more about me then about Mike Marshall his teaching or the structure of the course. There are abundant testimonials to how much other people have benefitted from his course, but I found PegHead worked better for me. Shorter lessons, discrete courses, and perhaps I was at a different part of my journey (there was some time between trying these courses).

If you try one and find you don't like it, you can always try another.

[lowtone2]

Just mentioning other teachers who are on Patreon or otherwise available for lessons, and i assume, one on one video lessons.

David Benedict

Tristan Scroggins

Baron Collins-Hill

Hayes Griffin

I'm sure there are others.

[Matt79]

Well, I signed up for PegHead Nation and got a free month. I've been working through the beginner stuff this morning, and it is exactly what I was looking for - very logically laid out, and you mark off each lesson as completed when you're done. It kind of gives you the satisfying feeling of checking things off of a "to-do list. I think I might stick with this for the month, and take a lesson from Wayne to see which one suites me best.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Having some form of feedback is important to me. As a guitarist I tried Peghead Nation for a while and Scott Nygaard is great - I particularly love his arrangements of the fiddle tunes. But, in my very first video submission to Bryan Sutton he raised a point about my picking arm that I'd never considered in years of playing. Just having him spot it and getting me to adjust how I was playing has opened up my tone and made me a better guitarist. I would have learned a whole load of tunes from Peghead Nation over the past 6 months, but I'm not sure I'd have ever reached that breakthrough on my own.

If you want to learn tunes and songs there are plenty of great resources out there. If you want one on one lessons your options become a bit more limited based on money and where you live (and, at this point, COVID). For me, Artistworks gives me the balance of the resource and some proper one to one feedback. I can suck up the delay waiting for a response at the price point.

I also had the thrill of hearing Bryan Sutton grab his guitar and start playing backup to my lead on Black Mountain Rag during one of his responses. Not a reason to join Artistworks on it's own of course, but was very cool nevertheless! :)

My experience of Mike's mandolin lessons was very similar - really high quality, personal feedback that helps with how you play, not just what you play.

[Sue Rieter]

Yes, the personal feedback is key, despite the delay factor. In my last video, I showed Mike my mandola, and he said, "Cool! Let's hear that, too!"

[Matt79]

Having some form of feedback is important to me. As a guitarist I tried Peghead Nation for a while and Scott Nygaard is great - I particularly love his arrangements of the fiddle tunes. But, in my very first video submission to Bryan Sutton he raised a point about my picking arm that I'd never considered in years of playing. Just having him spot it and getting me to adjust how I was playing has opened up my tone and made me a better guitarist. I would have learned a whole load of tunes from Peghead Nation over the past 6 months, but I'm not sure I'd have ever reached that breakthrough on my own.

If you want to learn tunes and songs there are plenty of great resources out there. If you want one on one lessons your options become a bit more limited based on money and where you live (and, at this point, COVID). For me, Artistworks gives me the balance of the resource and some proper one to one feedback. I can suck up the delay waiting for a response at the price point.

I also had the thrill of hearing Bryan Sutton grab his guitar and start playing backup to my lead on Black Mountain Rag during one of his responses. Not a reason to join Artistworks on it's own of course, but was very cool nevertheless! :)

My experience of Mike's mandolin lessons was very similar - really high quality, personal feedback that helps with how you play, not just what you play.

Those are good points. PegHead Nation was a no brainer since it was free for a month, but I completely agree that while I think I'm doing exactly what Sharron is demonstrating, I'm sure I'm not, and it would be nice to have someone point it out.

[Peter Houser]

I joined ArtistWorks' Mandolin with Mike Marshall just over two weeks ago and, so far, like it. I've already submitted my "Placement/Introduction" video to Mike and received a response video back from Mike about 10 days later. I hear that a 10+ day response time is what you can expect. Mike's response was great and he zeroed in on a couple of issues I have with my playing, pic upstroke and how I hold the mandolin. I have played the mandolin for years, mostly in my 20s many years ago. I was consumed by the mandolin back then, played in old time string bands. Taught myself, never took any lessons. I gave up playing for many years (decades really) and have gotten back to playing a couple of years ago. I've already realized I need to go back to the basics and learn good technique (unlearn old bad stuff). I'm ok with going back to the beginning and Mike's course curriculum is organized to follow easily, beginner, intermediate, advanced lessons. A ton of other lessons and resources as well. I'm a disciplined person so the organization and flow of the lessons will work for me I think. I like Mike's teaching style. I'm surprised at the different skill levels of the students, from beginners to very advanced players and everything in between. I learn a lot just watching other students' videos and Mike's responses.

I like the idea of PegHead Nation and will check that out one of these days.
I also use Baron Collins-Hills YouTube videos which are great and free (he does accept donations through Patreon which I have done.
https://www.mandolessons.com/
https://www.patreon.com/mandolessons/posts

Thanks for all the posts everyone.

[Marcus CA]

There was just a huge amount of material and I found myself too tempted to skip around.

I did, too --- at first. I would go to the tunes that I was interested in learning, but then I came across these intentional landmines where Mike would refer back to something that he had taught in an earlier tune or skill lesson. So, I started going in order.

It turned out that in many of the skill lessons that I thought I didn't need, Mike would present one or two significant things that I hadn't known before, so those lessons ended up being worth going through just to get those nuggets.