Binding Mitres & Acetone

[Flowerpot]

I have read that to get a "perfect" binding mitre, you can use a drop of acetone on the point to get the two pieces to melt together. I tried this, and the binding I got from LMI does not want to dissolve in acetone. I even tried laquer thinner (with methl-ethyl keytone) and mineral spirits, no go. I'm beginning to wonder if I got some binding made of Teflon! It's standard BWB 0.060 x 0.25 stuff from LMI's catalog. Am I being stupid here expecting the binding to dissolve in acetone? Where do you get your binding from? Does this trick work for you?

[Yonkle]

I get my binding from Stew Mac, and YES the acetone will melt it and make a seamless joint.

[sunburst]

Acetone will work for celluloid plastics, ie ivorOID, but will not dissolve ABS and some of the other plastics. Actually not much will dissolve ABS.
Put some scraps of your bindings in little bottles of solvents and see if they dissolve.
Most of the black binding that I know of is ABS or something else acetone resistant, but black celluloid can be gotten from Delmar products. I don't think they sell retail, so you would have to shop arount to find it.

[crawdad]

While on the subject of bindings, I began by using the Weld-On cement that Stew Mac recommends for bindings. This stuff definitely dissolves their ivroid bindings. That can be good or bad. If you use it to glue the bindings, any seepage will dissolve any area of the binding it comes in contact with. It also didn't hold the binding very well to the fingerboard. I switched halfway through the fingerboard to thick cyanocrylate glue and quick set activator. The rest of the bindings held beautifully-much better. The Weld On will work for binding joints, melting them together. For that, its useful, but I will never use it for anything else again.

[Jim Hilburn]

I think the secret is to fill your rout with glue and lay in the binding and let it sit for a few seconds ,then wipe away all the squeeze out ,thoroughly. Then tape it into place. Then you shouldn't get any excessive melting.

[Darryl Wolfe]

This is kindof where I wanted to go with my "plastics thread". #The stuff LMI sells seems to be mostly ABS and/or Bolteron..the white bindings have a blue hue to them #

I use Stew Mac bindings and some that I got from FQMS long ago. #Jim is correct that too much melt is easy to do and can smoosh fine white black lines into a mess.

I only use Duco cement and find the Stew Mac weld stuff to be not as good. #I prime the plastic with acetone and then run a bead of Duco. #I let the Duco set/skin over a few minutes and wipe it off. #Then I put a fresh bead of Duco on and..position and tape the binding in place. #If I'm doing a pickguard, I prime both surfaces and apply glue only to one.

With respect to miters, I leave slight extra length for melt/squeeze..take it apart after the squeeze and clean off any black line squeeze that got on the white area..prime with acetone and tape back in place

[Darryl Wolfe]

This one was a royal P.I.T.A..and I missed a few places a bit

[sunburst]

I use Duco too. I've used it for years and it's worked so why change?
I did have to use Weld-on or something like that recently on some restoration project because the plastic was not celluloid and Duco didn't seem to be working to my satisfaction.

I have some stuff in a bottle that I call "ivoroid mud" that I use sometimes for binding repairs. I kept a bunch of binding scraps and dissolved them in acetone so that I have a putty-like substance that matches ivoroid in color. It dries and turns back into plastic.

[samuel]

i put a bunch of ivoroid in acetone for a project to see if i can concoct anything that will be effective. i definitely want to try duco... hmmm that sounds like that way to go. has anyone else had any luck with binding adhesives or secrets out there?

[Jim Hilburn]

Watching Bob Bennedetto do the binding work in his archtop guitar video's is going to be some of the best instruction you will ever get. But mastering miter cuts with a chisel is very challenging. I spend a lot of time scraping and filing to get a joint that blends together nicely. While F-5 binding is generally more challenging than the usual 90 degree junctions on an archtop ,Bob makes up for it by doing 7 separate plys all at the same time.
Be careful trying to blend your joints with heat and acetone. If you heat a joint enough to have it physically blend together ,it can also do some things you don't want it to. I just try to get the joint close enough and then the Duco will melt it together nicely. you just have to let it soak for 30 seconds or so and then clear the joint of all the squeeze ,and tape ,clamp or hold it in place till you get the results you are after. Experience is really all that counts.

[Flowerpot]

Experience, and using ivoroid instead of ABS, will get me there... thanks for all the input, everybody.

[RHS]

Where can one find Duco?

[Brookside]

I had to look for it everywhere. I went to hobby stores, Home Depots, drug stores, and the like. Maybe it depends on what part of the country you're in. I never found it at any Home Depots or Hobby Lobbys. They all said, "never heard of it." I finally found it at a little neighborhood hardware store.

[Gavin Baird]

I believe that Duco is the same as SIG model airplane cement. I could be wrong but this is my experience...G ...It is an acetone solvent nitro cellulose based cement....

[Jim Hilburn]

There's a glue called Bond cement that I've found at Hobby Lobby or Micheals. It's pretty much the same thing as Duco.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Walmart is about the only place I can find it anymore. It is acetone based with something like butylcellusolve in it. Most standard "airplane" glues are a bit different

[Luthier Vandross]

Duco is the only way to go, and it's like Testors.. but it's easy to find in the shop too...

"Anybody seen the green tube?" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

M

[pathazzard]

With respect to miters, I leave slight extra length for melt/squeeze..take it apart after the squeeze and clean off any black line squeeze that got on the white area..prime with acetone and tape back in place
you kind of lost me about the extra length and taking it back apart after squeezing. Isn't it melted together once it is squeezed? When you use the acetone to prime, do you do that in order to clean the binding before gluing?

[Rick Lindstrom]

Greetings-

I can't speak to the miter issue because I've never built a mando, but I can input info on gluing binding.

In the days when I was building guitars, I glued bindings with a concoction made from acetone and celluloid binding scraps. You dissolve enough scraps in acetone to make a mix that's about the consistency of Duco cement.

The beauty of this approach is that the "glue" is the same color as your binding (mostly tortoise shell in my case), and has a tendency to fill imperfections and slight gaps making them more or less invisible. You have to work efficiently, as the stuff is very quick to dry. I'd glue a few inches at a time, tape it and move on.

Rick

[Darryl Wolfe]

With respect to miters, I leave slight extra length for melt/squeeze..take it apart after the squeeze and clean off any black line squeeze that got on the white area..prime with acetone and tape back in place
you kind of lost me about the extra length and taking it back apart after squeezing. Isn't it melted together once it is squeezed? When you use the acetone to prime, do you do that in order to clean the binding before gluing?
sorry for the late reply..my point has mostly to do with white black white binding, and getting a clean miter with no black squeeze into the white area. As far as priming, I do that not to clean but to give the Duco more melt into the binding. Too often you can run a bead of Duco, tape in place and it turns out the glue didn't penetrate well enough to "weld" the plastic. Priming and/or putting on several coats of Duco and wiping of and reapplying let the stuff soak and soften the plastic

[Nolan]

I get Duco at Wal-Mart too, it's like $1 a tube. I use it to fletch up arrows to.