Old vs Old vs Old/New Quandary

[Bazz Jass]

Some of you may have seen I've been looking for an F2 or an F4.

I currently have a 1918 A. You can hear me playing it badly here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8bhmDPT0NU&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=JohnBanjovi

It's been my thought for a while to buy an F2 or F4 and then sell the A.

Where I am in the world (New Zealand) I can only buy an old Gibson F for a lot of money without trying first. So I have to believe it's a good one, and spend a lot of money after currency conversion and taxes to get it.

So far so good.

In 2 or 3 weeks the first ever Eastman 515v mandolins are arriving in New Zealand, and I have first option to try all 3 and pick one.

So I have two scenarios to consider - buy an F2 or F4 without trying, and sell the A (I will need to sell the A in this scenario to help cover the cost).

Or buy the best of the three 515v's and keep the Gibson A.

The first scenario will leave me with one (hopefully nice) Gibson F, but still with an oval hole.

The second scenario will let me keep my old Gibson A, plus have a modern F -hole mandolin.

What would others do? Assuming a Gibson purchase was sight-unseen, and the Eastman purchase let you try three examples and you got to keep your Gibson A?

Cheers,
John.

[Bob Clark]

Hi John,

I wouldn't decide in advance of trying the three Eastmans. I would go try them. If I found one that did it for me, I'd buy it. If I didn't, I'd go the Gibson route. Why try to make the decision without trying the Eastmans? I really like Eastman mandolins and I'd sure give them a chance. Besides, the test drive is always fun and informative! Good luck and please tell us what you decide.

Bob

[Sue Rieter]

I don't think I'd trade away a cool old mandolin for something sight unseen. I'm with Bob. I've seen more than one person on this forum with sellers' regrets.

[Ash Telecaster]

Some of you may have seen I've been looking for an F2 or an F4.

I currently have a 1918 A. You can hear me playing it badly here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8bhmDPT0NU&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=JohnBanjovi

It's been my thought for a while to buy an F2 or F4 and then sell the A.

Where I am in the world (New Zealand) I can only buy an old Gibson F for a lot of money without trying first. So I have to believe it's a good one, and spend a lot of money after currency conversion and taxes to get it.

So far so good.

In 2 or 3 weeks the first ever Eastman 515v mandolins are arriving in New Zealand, and I have first option to try all 3 and pick one.

So I have two scenarios to consider - buy an F2 or F4 without trying, and sell the A (I will need to sell the A in this scenario to help cover the cost).

Or buy the best of the three 515v's and keep the Gibson A.

The first scenario will leave me with one (hopefully nice) Gibson F, but still with an oval hole.

The second scenario will let me keep my old Gibson A, plus have a modern F -hole mandolin.

What would others do? Assuming a Gibson purchase was sight-unseen, and the Eastman purchase let you try three examples and you got to keep your Gibson A?

Cheers,
John.

I don't even know what and F2 or F4 means but I liked your playing!

Maybe I just don't know enough about it but I think New Zealand has to be one of the coolest places in the world! Hope I can visit one day.

If it were me I would go with option 2. I thrive on variety. That's why I own 14 guitars!

[Josh Levine]

That A seems to sound pretty good. Does it have some issues or do you just really want a scroll? I would definitely keep the A and try out the Eastman's and get one if you like it.

[JeffD]

Here is a contrarian thought.

You don't have to do anything right now.

You have an amazing mandolin. Not likely to be matched or exceeded. Not easily. You have what to many would be their forever mandolin. It can make you happy for ever. It sounds like a gem. Sounds like the kind of mandolin someone would want to get, not let go of. I haven't played every Eastman model, but I have played many. And I have never played one I would rather have than a vintage Sheraton brown Gibson.

I would (try not to) fall victim of a general culturally induced MAS. I would try to wait until a specific instrument that you want becomes obviously available and obtainable, and this sudden vision of mandolin loveliness punctures your general reverie and mandostatic contentment, and reignites the more virulent and focused form of MAS. Let the mandolin find you, grab you, acquire you. Rather than you searching for "something that might work".

When the right one comes along, you will know it. You will know it by how obvious the decision is.

Well, that is the theory anyway. What do I know. :cool:

[Joe Bartl]

Your A sounds great. Based on personal experience, I can say that no matter how good an alternative F2 or F4 sound, you will miss that A.

[Drew Streip]

Or buy the best of the three 515v's and keep the Gibson A.

The first scenario will leave me with one (hopefully nice) Gibson F, but still with an oval hole.

The second scenario will let me keep my old Gibson A, plus have a modern F -hole mandolin.

What would others do? Assuming a Gibson purchase was sight-unseen, and the Eastman purchase let you try three examples and you got to keep your Gibson A?

Cheers,
John.

So, I had an Eastman 515 first, and I was lusting after an old Gibson. So I bought a 1913 Gibson A in horrible, unplayable condition to restore and keep.

I now have two different great playing, great sounding instruments. The A scratches the vintage itch, and the F gives me bluegrass power.

I would love a vintage F2.... but I don’t see how you could do better, financially or sound wise, than the vintage A + New Eastman combo. They’re pretty consistently good instruments. They are not boutique but they’re a phenomenal value, especially when you look at the price/quality delta in other instruments like saxophones. They do get better with lots of playing (no voodoo, just my opinion that they settle into their sound with some time and lively picking).

Best of luck on a purchase! You sound great and so does the Gibson.

[rcc56]

If you play the Eastmans, you will find that the tone and sustain of f-hole mandolins is quite different from that of oval hole mandolins.
There also tends to be some difference in the tone between an old oval hole A and an F-2 or F-4, but the differences are usually less marked.

Some people like to have both an oval hole and an f-hole mandolin around. Others, like myself, tend to prefer one over the other, at least most of the time. I prefer the oval hole sound.

Since you and I have had some previous discussions, I'm going to suggest that you practice some patience, and perhaps bank a little more money so you can increase your options.

That's a good sounding A model you have. If it were me, I would hold on to it unless I found something that I was certain was going to be as good or better. That's easy for me to say in my corner of the world, where mandolins are easy to find.

[Rich Benson]

SNAP OUT OF IT MAN!!
Seriously, why would you ever think of selling that A, way too good to let go of!

[Lucas]

I agree with everyone. You have a fine sounding mandolin. You may find that after you receive the Eastman, you'll want to keep the A. But I do understanding the desire to get a second mandolin. Like everyone else here, you have fallen victim to MAS.:)

[Bazz Jass]

Thanks for the excellent comments everyone.

The more I think and talk to people, I realise the potential folly of spending a lot of money on an instrument I don't get to try first. I bought the A without trying it, but it was in my home country (New Zealand) and wasn't a risk in terms of getting it across the world.

The vintage F2s and F4s appeal to me - a. because they're the only affordable Gibson F mandolins, and b. because my best friend had an F4 in a bluegrass band we had back in the 90s. But I realise now, it's another oval hole mandolin that sound-wise will be similar, maybe better or worse than my A.

I know I seem impatient, but the fact is I'm turning 50 in a few months, and my wife is letting me buy a nice mandolin (yes, "letting me buy" not "buying me"!) so I'd like to have something on the day to celebrate with.

The Eastman scenario has just suddenly presented itself, and I have to agree that it might be the perfect solution. Three actual mandolins to audition side by side - pretty unheard of in my home town. And if I find an Eastman I love, I get to keep the A and have a nice palette of sounds with the two mandolins, plus all the modern features and stability the Eastman should provide.

I'll let you all know how I go. If I find a 515 I can make sound half as good as this one, I'll be pretty happy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cm50tiwKPM&ab_channel=AlexLoops&fbclid=IwAR0ogXo9Wh27fb_Q5s4MZDj24MwdIW6gQU9yCdRLd Ij5IZd4RvQYXE4aQyM

Yeah, I know he has a Loar now.... :mandosmiley:

[Dave Sheets]

I'll second a lot of comments on here about just how good your A sounds. I wouldn't let that one go. Go for a second instrument with F holes and get yourself with a very different sound, a complementary instrument rather than a replacement.

[Jim Garber]

If you love your A, then you probably have an excellent sounding vintage Gibson oval. In my long experience, F2s and F4s may have some edge on tone over the non-scroll models but there is no guarantee for sure and more often than not you may be just getting an upgrade to a similar sound. So I would also suggest trying out the 515v's and see if you like any of them as an alternative sound—they will be much different than your Gibson. In fact The Mandolin Store has an excellent demo here. It sounds pretty good but nothing like your Gibson A, I am sure. Not worse but different, something to add to your tonal palette, as we accumulators call it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2qi97ZWYbA

[Bob Gnann]

The Gibson A is a great instrument and if you let it go you may never find another instrument like it. They don't make them anymore. Be patient, save up, get that F5 that really rings your bell and you'll have the best of both worlds.

[Eric Platt]

Another agreement to give the Eastman a try and go that route. It will be a totally different type of mandolin and will compliment what you have.

Your A is really good sounding. The odds of finding an F2 or F4 that is better isn't great. It's very much a roll the dice move. And, like you said, the chance of being able to play the 3 Eastman side by side is something you don't get to do very often. Don't be surprised if one of them meets your needs.

[Cary Fagan]

I tried to buy an old Gibson oval hole without trying first. I had 3 sent to me and had to return them all. they all had issues that were not noticed or mentioned by the owners. Also, when it comes to old Gibsons I personally prefer the As to the Fs. I think with the shorter neck to body the scroll kind of gets in the way. You have a lovely Gibson now and like the others I vote to keep it.

15 years ago I just had to have an F style. I got myself a good mandolin that I still have but nowadays I don't care nearly so much.

Enjoy playing.

[Nick Gellie]

I agree with all the previous sentiments. Keep that A and try the Eastmans out. I have an Eastman 505 after trying and having much more expensive mandolins. I have been pretty impressed. It took me three goes before I got a good one. There was nothing wrong with the other two. They had great playability and pretty good tone. Thiis one I have is pretty special.

It is a good strategy to try out the Eastmans - the 515s have a good reputation.

[Bazz Jass]

I agree with all the previous sentiments. Keep that A and try the Eastmans out. I have an Eastman 505 after trying and having much more expensive mandolins. I have been pretty impressed. It took me three goes before I got a good one. There was nothing wrong with the other two. They had great playability and pretty good tone. Thiis one I have is pretty special.

It is a good strategy to try out the Eastmans - the 515s have a good reputation.

Thanks - I'm really looking forward to trying the Eastmans. It seems like a great scenario to test the three Eastmans against each other, and also against my A mandolin. :)

[Bazz Jass]

Just checking back in to this old thread to let you all know the outcome. It took a bit of time, but this is what I have ended up with:

1. A great sounding Eastman 515v picked out of a selection of three. It has a really great bluegrass sound to my ear, and I've really enjoyed getting to know it the past 6 weeks.

2. A beautiful, player grade 1921 F4 which I first inquired about in early February, did a deal on a few weeks later, and finally arrived in New Zealand yesterday. Haven't had a real chance to get fully acquainted yet, but initial impressions are awe and wonder :)

Two very different sounding mandolins, which is great. Something had to be sacrificed, and I sold the A model locally to someone who'd always wanted one. That had a sound of it's own too, but home budgeting wouldn't stretch to three mandolins.

Thanks for everyone's advice as I've muddled my way through this process!

193865

193866

[Jill McAuley]

Two beauties there, well done!

[Eric Platt]

Congrats! Those are both very nice looking mandolins. You made nice choices. And glad you were able to snag both the F models.

[Bruce Clausen]

I just noticed this thread for the first time. Quite aside from the mandolin, the playing on the video in post #1 is really fine. I hope we'll hear more of you here! :)

[Bazz Jass]

I just noticed this thread for the first time. Quite aside from the mandolin, the playing on the video in post #1 is really fine. I hope we'll hear more of you here! :)

Very kind of you to say. In reality just a long time guitarist trying to adapt to mandolin playing ;)

[Bruce Clausen]

...just a long time guitarist trying to adapt to mandolin playing.

Like me and many others here. The trouble starts when you take up the violin. :crying: