Waverly Tuner Break-in Period

[JMOSS99]

Does anyone have experience with Waverly Tuners being
tight at first and requiring a break-in period to loosen up?
Your impressions and experiences with these tuners
would be interesting. #

http://www.waverlytuners.com/work.html#

[Scotti Adams]

..That wasnt the case when I had a set on a previous mando that I installed...they turned real nicely. Did Frank get a set?

[sunburst]

They shouldn't need a break-in period.
Generally, they're well machined and precise. So precise, that the hole alignment and spacing on a lot of mandolins causes problems with them being hard to turn. It's also possible that the back of the headstock isn't flat for the whole length of the tuner plates, and they are being forced into a curve, causing misalignment.
If they turn freely when they aren't mounted on the mandolin and hard when they are, it's probably the holes in the headstock.
They are supplied with two sets of bushings. If it's possible to use the stamped bushings rather than the "precision" bushings in the holes, the chance of free turning tuners is better.
If, as is apparently the case, they're already installed, you can't really switch from one set of bushings to the other because they require different size holes. In order to free them up, you might have to have a luthier bush and re-drill the peghead holes for better alignment.

If the alignment is good and the tuners are the problem, Stewmac will stand behind them. (Or I'll be surprised.)

[Hans]

Hi JIm,
John is right, the "eyelets" are sloppier fit on the posts. The "bushings" are more precision. If there is any misalignment of the holes the tuners bind. I can't stress the fact that the holes have to be drilled very accurately for the tuners to work with the bushings. I use a drill jig made for me and was machined on a #CNC machine. Another problem is if the instrument has a tapered peghead, the bushings must sit perpendicular to the back of the peghead.
The other possible problem is if some of the tuner shafts are tight turning before the machines are installed. You need a special wrench to adjust the little do-hickey (that's tech-talk, folks) on the shaft at the plate. I believe you also need some loctite to do this.

[sunburst]

Hans, do you have the little do-hickey tool? Can you get them from Stewmac? I have a mando in here with some slop in the Waverly's, and I'd like to adjust them.

[Hans]

I did get one from Stew-mac.

[JMOSS99]

Frank did get the Waverly's and installed them.
He said that they were way stiff right out of the
box and he tried to work them a little to loosen
them up before he installed them, but that they
were stiff before they saw the mandolin. He said
that the set he got fit perfectly into the holes,
but that they only sent him one set of eyelet's.
That was fine though because that set fit. They also
sent him a second pearl knob, which he thought was odd.

When I talked to Eric at Stu Mac, he said that there
was some mating of the two gears that should be expected
and that the he was concerned that the tuners might not
he mounted correctly with a proper fit. I restated what
Frank reported, that they were stiff before he put them in.
He offered to reset them if we sent them back, but maybe
try them for a couple of weeks first. I mentioned that
Frank did say that they didn't slip and he liked that, but
that they were all hard to turn at first, but then after
working some silicon spray into them, that the only two
left stiff were the first A string (A end tuner) and
the second G.

Eric at Stu Mac said that they only send one set of eyelet's
these days and that the second pearl knob was sent as a backup
in case one of the "Real Pearl" paddles shattered at some point.
He said that "Real Pearl" is brittle and can shatter, but it is
a nicer paddle. That is pretty incredible that they would machine
"Real Pearl". That must be some job, holding them little rascals still
so to machine them.

So that is where we are, Frank is letting them break-in on his
mandolin.

More to come...

Jim Moss
FWB

[Garrett]

Yes, I bought Frank a set. This is the first I've heard about him receiving them, which is kind of surprising given I spent a lot of my own money for them (and I'm not rich).

[Scotti Adams]

...thats a great gesture on your part Aaron....Frank should use them proudly....

[mandoJeremy]

That is VERY nice of you Aaron! There are still some good people in the world that still like giving and that makes me happy. I will give you a "Thank you" just for being kind. If I recall, when I first got my mando back with Waverly tuners on it they were much tighter than what I had been used to. I think it is just because they are so precise and when you are used to loose tuners they just feel weird at first. I am very used to them now though. I definitely would let someone that knows exactly what they're doing look at it and be sure they are installed correctly because so many people have said that they smallest things can change whether they work correctly or not.

[JMOSS99]

Aaron,
yes it is a very nice thing you have done, to follow through on your posts
over on the other thread and purchase the Waverly's for Frank. #I started
this new thread here because the old thread was not getting any responses
to my questions. #I am still intending to help out with the purchase as I promised. #

I would have called you, but I haven't been awake and near a phone at the
hours that I would normally call anyone. #I wanted to wait until Monday and
call you at work... which, I think, is the only phone number I have for you. #
By Monday I can check back with Frank to see how they are coming
and if they are going to work for him. #I think we had agreed to
something like that on the phone. # Frank was a little upset at Waverly for
how much you had to pay for these and how they didn't come perfect out
of the box. #He was upset in defense of you. #That is why the questions
about break-in. #

I talked to Frank on Friday morning before going to bed here on the west coast
and he had put them in the day before. #That was when I talked to Eric at STu Mac.

Lets talk about this off line. #I will try to get a call through to you later today
when I get up. #I will call Frank first and see how the tuners are working out.

Jim Moss <FWB@Candlewater.com>
650-747-0748
FWB

[JMOSS99]

I might add that there was a minor distraction here
on Friday night/Saturday morning. #Here is my email
to a couple of friends of mine. Some of you might
know Art as Art Bell.
---- #quote -----

Ben and Art,
I had a strange experience here on the hill the other
night. #The neighbors have gone on vacation and took
their two dogs with them, but left their two house cats
behind and outside. #They said that the cats would have
lots of food provided for them when they called to
ask me to watch their house. #I didn't ask how the food
would be provided, but I said that I would also feed the
cats here if they showed up.

Well, the first night they were gone the older girl cat
showed up just above my deck. #She was meowing like she
was terrified with that wavoring meow that cats do when
they are really sad or worried. #I called to the cat and
opened a can of cat food for her, but she ran off into
the night in the direction of their house when I tapped
the food from the can into a plate out on the deck.

Well, I just thought she would come back and eat the food
when I went back in the house, so, I went about working on
my car in my garage. This was about 1:00 am on Friday
night.

At about 4:00 am after installing brake rotors and pads,
I opened the garage door and stepped outside for some air.
Now remember my house is out in the Santa Cruz mountains.
http://www.candlewater.com/JMSatilitePhoto.jpg

As I emerged from the garage, I heard and felt this
intense screaming/crying sound, that could best be
described as sounding like a mixture of #a) screaming car
breaks and b) a woman's voice screaming at mid timbre and
c) the sound of a diaphragm flapping like the sound the
lions make at the zoo, all rolled up into a single voice.
The sound was so intensely powerful that the only thing I
can compare it with would be the intensity a rock band
would have using a guitar into a stack of six Marshall amps
in a small hall or the T-Rex on Jurassic Park 1.

What I mean to say is that the sound had those low
frequencies that you can not only hear, but feel in your
chest... #and it was loud! #The sound was coming out
of the darkness, but from the direction of the
neighbors house, which is just up the hill from me.

I shined a flash light out in the general direction of the
sound, but I couldn't see the source of the sound through
the trees, brush and darkness. The animal did respond to
the light with more roars, but then stopped.

I felt motivated to go back into the house as I suspect that this
could be a rather large mountain lion.

I have not seen the neighbor's cat since this happened. #
I think I will go up there in the daylight and look for
foot prints of what made this sound. One more thing, last
night, 24 hours after this experience, I was listening to
Coast to Coast as I was driving back to the house.
Somewhere in the second hour the host played a recording
of a creature screaming, they played it several times. #
This sound, it was the sound I heard here less than 600
feet from my house on Friday night, only when I heard it,
it was much much louder.

Very strange...

Jim Moss
---- #quote -----

I would like to report that I did see the cats today.
They are fine.

[JMOSS99]

Well, I just got off the phone with Frank and he thinks the tuners
will break-in just fine. #He wants me to thank everyone who
came up with the idea, and most of all, Prof. Aaron Garrett, who
actually purchased them as a gift. #Frank has always said that
he has the best fans in the world and this is more proof that
he is right.

I will need to get a photo for the newsletter of Aaron with Frank
and his new tuners when we are on the east coast in November. #
We are not sure just yet if we will be at Club Passim as there is
competition for the date, but we will figure something out. #
We are looking to fill the dates from November 13th and 17th right now.

Thanks again Prof. Garrett, and thanks to everyone who came up with
the idea here on mandolincafe.net # That is a lot of money to spend
on tuners, but it will make a difference in each performance and
recording session, I am sure.

Jim Moss
FWB

[Garrett]

Thanks JIm. I'm not looking for praise, just for information. Glad to hear that they are breaking in.

[monroerules]

I recently installed a set of Waverly's that were somewhat stiff. Tell Frank, I put on a little red paint and put them in the microwave. Make sure to select the popcorn setting, that did the trick for me.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Greg H.]

As I emerged from the garage, I heard and felt this
intense screaming/crying sound, that could best be
described as sounding like a mixture of #a) screaming car
breaks and b) a woman's voice screaming at mid timbre and
c) the sound of a diaphragm flapping like the sound the
lions make at the zoo, all rolled up into a single voice.


JMoss,
Actually your description sounds very much like a bobcat. We have a number of them around us, and the way we usually describe it is as a cross between a woman screaming and a velociraptor out of Jurassic Park. Our house is very open with lots of hard surfaces, so in the spring or fall it can be a bit spooky if they're nearby (once there was one was right under my daughter's bedroom window. . . .took nearly a week for her to go back in there to sleep).

[JMOSS99]

It could be a bobcat. We have them here,
however, we also have mountain lions too.
The local hunters will say I am crazy, but I saw one
on my deck a couple of years ago. I had a clear
view of that sucker for about 15 seconds and it was
a mountain lion. It was bigger than me, but all muscle.
It didn't make any noise though, just killed my cat.
The screaming was real freaky, I must say.
I thought, "man, maybe there is a big foot!".

Jim Moss
FWB