Gibson history

[Jim Hilburn]

I do know all their most sought after and valuable instruments(except for the Loars,maybe) were made when they were a UNION company.

Jim Hilburn
local 68 IBEW

[Steven Stone]

[Lost my interest in Gibson products]

Gee, what happened?

Got a lobotomy? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[mandoJeremy]

Oh no! Popcorn, chocolate, popcorn, candy.....something please!

[Hoovetone]

Could someone tell me the thread where Joe Vest slams the union. I'm getting to like Gibson better already. Alright, So I'm anti union, anti fret extentions(floridas)and I prefer X-bracing over tone bars. SO WHAT?

[Coy Wylie]

Could someone tell me the thread where Joe Vest slams the union. I'm getting to like Gibson better already. Alright, So I'm anti union, anti fret extentions(floridas)and I prefer X-bracing over tone bars. SO WHAT?
You sound like a Weber man.

[Charlie Derrington]

First off, Joe's opinion (for the umpteenth time) is his own and not Gibson's opinion. Geesh, I'm gettin' tired of saying this.

Secondly, and just for grins, does anyone know how many mandolin shops use union labor? My uneducated guess would be very few or none. I don't believe it's an industry that is conducive to collective bargaining. Of course, I could be dead wrong. I don't want to get into a debate about the viability of unions, I'm just curious.

BTW Reid (as an aside) I'm from Paris, and although I went to Murray State, my brother graduated from UT Martin. I wonder if we know each other, because in a previous life, I played all over that area when Mike Snider and I were together in a bluegrass band.....long before he opened his mouth and made a fortune.

Charlie

[Nick Triesch]

I like Gibsons, Webers, Flatirons and I like Walmart. Great place to buy music. I think of it as America's store. Nick

[John Zimm]

You know, I am starting to like Gibson more as well. Gotta start saving for that master model. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-John.

[Brookside]

I'm starting to like Jim Hilburn and Reid Marcum more.

I.B.E.W. LU 124

[BigJoe]

I am not anti-union or pro union. I have been part of a union and worked where there were no union members. For the most part I am ambivalent. My "anti" union remark was that unions are not as important as they once were and may in some cases be responsible for the loss of jobs in certain areas. I was raised in a Steel city. The union was very important at one time in ensuring a living wage and working conditions that ensured a safe place...as much as possible. I also remember some of the strikes. Even though the members recieved a raise in pay it could take years to make back what they lost on strike. In the meantime many lost houses or cars or other situations. Finally the price of labor exceeded the ability of the company to compete and the steel mill closed. They did not move offshore. They just closed. The owners were tired of losing money. The only ones making a living were the union members. Not that I have a problem with the members making as much money as they can. I think that is great. On the other hand, they have to be willing to accept the result of their actions. In some cases they price themselves out of a job.

While that may not please some readers, that is nontheless true. I dont' think that is anti-union and my opinions have nothing to do with Gibson. Just like yours have nothing to do with the company you work for.

You may like or dislike me. You may like or dislike my opinions. You may wish to love any product you wish. However, some paint with a very broad brush and don't always have the right color paint. I am a person with strong opinions and convictions. I have never made that a secret. Many of you are the same. That diversity is part of what makes this site and our nation a great place. Our differences do not make me right and you wrong or you right and me wrong. If you have a strong conviction about something, stand for it and be proud of it. I do. I have always encouraged you to speak with your pocketbooks on anything that has anything to do with the product. Your opinion of me will be what it is, but don't confuse me with Gibson. We are two entirely differnt entities. I do not speak for Gibson on anything other than that which is directly related to my job. Anything else if my personal opinion the same as yours.

If you decide not to buy based on a low level manager with an opinion you don't like you will likely find little to buy from any company in the world. So, make your choices on Gibson based on the product and not my opinion of some political concept that may differ from yours. Thank you.

[MEP]

Good post and reply - Big Joe.

My recent dealing with a union comes from taking bids on a furnace and air-conditioner for my work place. I got two bids, one came from a union shop and the other was non-union (I was not aware of this at the time I contacted the two shops). The price from the non-union shop was 4785 and the price from the union shop was 9235. Both companies specified the same brand and model of furnace and AC. Guess which bid we are going to take. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Good example of the union pricing itself out of a job.

[atetone]

I have worked on both sides of this fence and bounced back and forth a few times too.
This subject is way too diverse to make any meaningful headway on this board.
I am off to a different thread. Outta here.....

[John S]

I'm neither anti-union or pro-union, but Joe Vest is right that unions can have a negative impact on the number of jobs. It's just economics -- companies forced to pay their employees beyond their ability have to cut costs elsewhere. Companies that pass on the cost of high employee wages to the customer lose their market share to companies who can operate at higher efficiency.

And Charlie is right, too. It's Joe's opinion, not Gibson's. Take any company, and you'll find a huge range of beliefs on all sorts of topics in all employees, from top to bottom. Should a company be held responsible for any belief or opinion that any of their employees might hold? That idea is beyond ridiculous. What are they going to do, fire someone for holding an opinion? Should they start screening employees on their views, from unions to abortions to political leanings, and hire only the ones that meet some arbitrary standard of "acceptable beliefs"?

Let me steer it back to mandolins now. I'm neither pro-Gibson or anti-Gibson, either http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif But I did just take the plunge and buy a Derrington signed master model. Well, I guess that does make me pro-Gibson after all.

[jom]

BigJoe, Its hard not to confuse your political opinions with those of Gibson company since this is a mandolin discussion board and your identity is *very* associated with your employer in this forum, particularly because you have spoken on behalf of Gibson in other posts. While many of us may have given you the benefit of the doubt in that regard (that your opinions don't reflect those of Gibsons), this whole affair just reinforces the notion that this discussion does not belong on this website.

[mandoJeremy]

MANDOLINS PLEASE, JUST MANDOLINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[John Zimm]

MANDOLINS PLEASE, JUST MANDOLINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree. How the heck did unions get brought into this in the first place?

Big Joe-great post. I agree 100%.

John S.-How's the new Master Model working out so far? I've only ever play one and I don't think it was setup well so it didn't sound as good as it could have, but the bass was just awesome.

-John.

[Big Joe]

I agree with you Jom. I said that same thing in the post referred to by the originator of this post. My personal political opinions are mine. They are not Gibson's and any person with a sane mind and intelligence realizes that. My opinions related to non-mandolin items are just mine the same as anyone elses and attaching my personal views to Gibson is the same as attaching your or anyone elses views to their employer. It does not match. They are not the same.

On the other hand, when it comes to non-mandolin related items I should have the same right to an opinion and the same right to voice that opinion as anyone else. There is not room for a double standard where I am not allowed to voice my thoughts on this forum but others are. There are other manufacturers and builders...some who do not put their identification as such on their name line...that offer opinions and are not taken to task as I am. There are dealers who are offered the same immunity as others not involved in the mandolin business. But...since I work for Gibson and an such an easy target for anyone with any bias against anything, I am not supposed to have the same rights??? That does not sound very democratic or very 'union' minded to me.

I have said before in some fashion and will say again. I ask no more privilege and no less than any other member. You can love me or hate me and that is your decision. Pretty hard to do if you don't know me, but that is life. However, I will continue to exercise my rights as I wish.

If anyone wants to find out what an ogre I am, just stop by the Gibson Bluegrass Showcase and ask anyone for me. I'll be happy to meet you and discuss anything you like to discuss. The state of the union, politics, religion, homophobia in rural America, mandolins, guitars, banjos, Ford vs GM vs Chrysler or anything else you wish to discuss. Will we agree on everything? Of course not. But, I will find an area we do agree on and we will have a ball talking about that. Oh, I forgot to mention fishing. I always like to talk about that! In the meantime, let's just have fun and be friends.

I understand triedm is under lots of strain with family in dire situations. He may even find I'm not so hard to take if he ever made the trip to Nashville and gave me a holler. Oh well, life is short and I'm wasting too much time on an issue that is not helping anyone in anyway. Thank you and have a Great Day!

[Steven Margulis]

I hate to be the one to steer this back on topic, but I think that the original question is pretty interesting. We all know that the quality of Gibson's mandolins suffered after Lloyd Loar and didn't get any better until the Flatiron shop took over, and of course, the mandolins that are being built today are phenomenal. But is anyone out there knowledgable of the specifics of who was building Gibson mandolins over the years and what, if any changes these folks added to the mix?

[Scott Tichenor]

Since Gibson doesn't employ union labor, this quasi-union discussion on both sides needs to stop and amounts to nothing more than alot of political talk that some of you would just love to engage in. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but once it steers into politics please take your discussion somewhere other than this message board. This is the last time I'm going to say this.

[jom]

BigJoe,
I hope I didn't step on your rights to post anything you want. However, it doesn't surprise me, since your signature is backed by the Gibson name, that someone who feels threatened by your opinions, might confuse those opinions with those of Gibson.
Having saying that, I respect your right to make your own decisions about what you want to post. Now, about that pickguard...

[John S]

John S.-How's the new Master Model working out so far? #I've only ever play one and I don't think it was setup well so it didn't sound as good as it could have, but the bass was just awesome.
I'll tell ya in a couple days, it should arrive this Thursday. Can't wait.

[Big Joe]

Hey Jom...thank you. I live on a very sharp fence. I keep my company affiliation on the signature line so it is obvious I have some relationship to the manufacturer when it comes to discussions of instruments. However, it would be nice to have another signature so I could speak for me and not have it confused with the company I work for. I realize that is not going to happen, but that is life.

Scott...thank you.

John S...I know you will love your new mandolin (see...I can discuss mandolins http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ). I love mine and cannot imagine not having it. Play hard and fall in love.

[Greenmando]

Thank you Joe

I defend your opinions in the regard that you addressed them. I have never confused your posts for that of Gibson's, or even Charlie D.'s posts. It is no different than saying that anything I say on this forum represents Scott T. or the rest of the forum members.
Buy a Gibson because you like the product, and for no other reason!

Has anyone asked how many union musicians play instruments without the union label?

I am the first to say the union is not for everyone. It works for me, but if it meant more money I would jump ship so quick no one would know I had been there. # I am a slut !, # I am working to make money, the more the better! I am right between retirement (only 5 more years) and getting my contracting license, if I get my license I will not be a union contractor. I can make more money being a non-union contractor. Yes, I know my retirement is partially coming from the union, but we went thru so many years that they were worse than nothing. In many occupations and/or states a union is impractical.

Tom M.
carpenters local 721