View Full Version : upgrade thoughts
NYmando
Dec-08-2019, 12:33pm
Unfortunately I don't live near a music store with a wide variety of mandolins, so I'm looking for thoughts, and sharing an observation. I don't play bluegrass, but mainly accompany guitar players on typical folk/country/singer songwriter stuff. (I used to play a bunch of Mandolin Orange songs with a partner). I'm at the low-budget end of the mando world as an early intermediate player, and have had mid-missouri, Breedlove, and Eastman mandolins. For the past few years I've been pretty happy with a JBovier A5, and while the tone is good, sometimes I'd like a little sharper G string. I don't like the sound of Kentuckys I've played, as they sound thin and overly bright. I've also not liked Eastmans at all, but last night, waiting to play at an open mic, I played a humble MD315 in the store. I didn't have time to A-B it against my JBovier, but I was REALLY surprised at how much I liked it!
My observation is that I probably shouldn't write off a particular make, but judge each instrument separately, as there is probably a big range in quality, especially when they're mass produced.
And my question is: given the above comments, what suggestions do folks have for a different mando to try, staying under $1500 or so? Thanks.
Don Roon
Dec-08-2019, 12:45pm
Unfortunately I don't live near a music store with a wide variety of mandolins, so I'm looking for thoughts, and sharing an observation. I don't play bluegrass, but mainly accompany guitar players on typical folk/country/singer songwriter stuff. (I used to play a bunch of Mandolin Orange songs with a partner). I'm at the low-budget end of the mando world as an early intermediate player, and have had mid-missouri, Breedlove, and Eastman mandolins. For the past few years I've been pretty happy with a JBovier A5, and while the tone is good, sometimes I'd like a little sharper G string. I don't like the sound of Kentuckys I've played, as they sound thin and overly bright. I've also not liked Eastmans at all, but last night, waiting to play at an open mic, I played a humble MD315 in the store. I didn't have time to A-B it against my JBovier, but I was REALLY surprised at how much I liked it!
My observation is that I probably shouldn't write off a particular make, but judge each instrument separately, as there is probably a big range in quality, especially when they're mass produced.
And my question is: given the above comments, what suggestions do folks have for a different mando to try, staying under $1500 or so? Thanks.
I would think for $1,500.00 you could pick up a very nice used mandolin. I believe most of the dealers and others that post here in the classified section allow you 48 business hours to decide. I think one weekend I'm going to go to a town nearby and visit a large mandolin shop.
$1500 is a great budget in the used A style market. I’m Silverangel biased, particularly if you are not prone to bluegrass, but you’ll find some Weber’s for sure and someone will chime in with small builders that could work for you.
pheffernan
Dec-08-2019, 4:50pm
you’ll find some Weber’s for sure
For sure. Buy a used A5 appropriately depreciated and enjoy the ride: https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/147720#147720
Yes, instruments of the same make and model can vary considerably in tone and projection.
In your budget, you can add Gibson oval hole A's to your list. Some are brighter than others, some are deeper, some are "thicker," some are "lighter." You might also want to see what a Lyon & Healy style C sounds like, and check out some flat-backs.
If you're in the NY metropolitan area, Retrofret and Lark Street Music often have old Gibson A's.
allenhopkins
Dec-08-2019, 5:09pm
...My observation is that I probably shouldn't write off a particular make, but judge each instrument separately, as there is probably a big range in quality, especially when they're mass produced...
Amen to that. And realize that "mass production" in terms of mandolins, is nothing like producing SUV's, Air Jordans, or even solid-body electric guitars. You can't call what happens in even an Asian shop like Eastman, "mass production." There's more computer-controlled process, but you don't see an endless conveyer belt of F-5 clones stretching into the distance.
Each piece of wood is different, subtly or significantly, and each instrument is handled differently, exposed to different environments -- so no two mandolins are exactly alike, and every generalization based on "make and model" can be undermined by the discrepancies between two instruments built side-by-side in the same shop. With respected builders like Eastman, Saga/Kentucky, Loar, jBovier etc., I wouldn't expect a "big range in quality," but I would expect discernible differences.
Play as many as you can get your hands on, within your price range, and don't be afraid to go into the used market as well. Good luck.
Charles E.
Dec-08-2019, 7:27pm
For sure. Buy a used A5 appropriately depreciated and enjoy the ride: https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/147720#147720
+1 on that.
NFI
LadysSolo
Dec-08-2019, 8:21pm
I agree with the used A-style advice. Why pay extra just to get a scroll? You MIGHT find a used Pava for your price, for sure (as evidenced by the above Café ad) used Weber Gallatins, and likely many others. Happy hunting!
I don't know where you are in NY (guessing by your name), NY has many good places to kick a few tires and then buy a mandolin. Many. Might be a fun road trip.
I can tell you I have traveled a lot farther for a lot less.
Jeff
NYmando
Dec-09-2019, 1:07am
Thanks for all the advice. BTW, while my user name is NYmando, that’s because i’m from there, but I’ve been living in southern CA for over 40 years. Best mando selection I know of here is 7 hrs up the road in Santa Cruz (Sylvan Music).
Gunnar
Dec-09-2019, 4:20am
Well I was gonna say go buy this one right now
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/148020#148020
But it's sold already, no surprise there.
So get this one
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/147930#147930
No financial interest on my part, I'm actually financially quite uninteresting lol.
Br1ck
Dec-10-2019, 12:34pm
Thanks for all the advice. BTW, while my user name is NYmando, that’s because i’m from there, but I’ve been living in southern CA for over 40 years. Best mando selection I know of here is 7 hrs up the road in Santa Cruz (Sylvan Music).
I think if you got to Sylvan then Gryphon another hour down the road, you’ll get about the best selection in Ca. But you won’t see a huge variety of any one brand, except Gryphon has an impressive Collings collection. Eastman’s abound if that is your price range.
Charles E.
Dec-10-2019, 3:39pm
Buy this...
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/148085#148085
NFI
Doug Brock
Dec-10-2019, 4:05pm
With the last few mandolins I've bought, I've been amazed at just at how much difference the choice of strings and picks makes on the sound from a particular instrument. That makes it really difficult for me when I'm at the store trying to figure out where to sink my money!
By the way, you mentioned a positive response to the Eastman MD315. I had a similar experience. I wasn't expecting much when I first ran my thumb across the strings of one hanging up at the music store, but I did a double take and went back to pull the instrument down and play it. The sound was so dark and rich. I ended up buying one a few months later and it has been my main instrument for the past year. I went through a variety of strings till I settled on the EXP74CM for the heavier treble strings to thicken up the sound on the E and A strings. Love it! (After deciding that the MD315 would be a keeper, I replaced the tuners and added a K&K twin internal pickup.)
I subsequently bought an A for $1700 and it has a nice sound, but it gets lost at jams, so I'm playing the MD315 anytime I go out. I still plan to buy something in the $3k to $5k range, but I'm in no hurry.
By the way, I also have an Eastman MD505 with gorgeous flamed maple back and sides, but I like the sound of the MD315 better. I've played lots of other Eastmans, including the MD915, but the only one that I felt was significantly better than my MD315 was an MD815V (varnish) that I loved.
JEStanek
Dec-10-2019, 4:06pm
To me, it sounds like you're pretty particular in what your ears like and dislike. If you feel you can adequately describe that to another person in a shop over the phone (and they have a good return policy) try that or, take a road trip to someplace with lots to choose from.
I'll agree there is certainly some variation in production models. Some brands seem tighter than others in sticking to a sound (Collings, for example, seem very consistent if you like their voicing).
If my assumption isn't completely off in NY you could visit Bernunzio's or drop down to Philly or even Deleware. There are bound to be other shops along the way in the North East.
Jamie
Edit to Add, i like what Doug Brock wrote about how much strings and picks can give you...
Charles E.
Dec-10-2019, 6:58pm
Thanks for all the advice. BTW, while my user name is NYmando, that’s because i’m from there, but I’ve been living in southern CA for over 40 years. Best mando selection I know of here is 7 hrs up the road in Santa Cruz (Sylvan Music).
Jamie, he is in CA.
JEStanek
Dec-11-2019, 9:43am
Thanks. There are good shops in CA as well and the weather is now nicer for some shop visits. ;) I stand by my suggestion of hands on before buying if you're becoming particular.
Jamie
Regarding the MD 315. Of all the Eastman’s I’ve played, the 315 stands out to me, some I’ve liked better than the 515s. But for me you need to buy a quality A style in the $1500 range to get a satisfying G string. At least in a carved instrument.
archerscreek
Dec-14-2019, 9:43am
I had read so many positive experiences regarding the Eastman MD315 that I fully intended on buying that model. The store owner setup all available Eastman models in both F and A shapes, including an 815 Varnish with a Red Spruce top. I liked my MD515 best of the lot so I bought it. It's good enough with EJ74 strings but excels with Monels on there.
Since then I came across an interesting read on how Eastman retooled/redesigned their shop, getting rid of the loud machines that used to do a lot of the work and changing over to more hand carving, crafting and finishing. The shop floor is essentially quiet now.
I do think about upgrading, mainly thinking a more pronounced V shaped neck would suit my hand and left thumb position better playing certain passages of music. But before plunking down $3000-$5000+, it's going to have to beat my MD515, and so far this particular one has kept money in my pocket.
I bet if you did a blind test my Eastman would _____ (insert eye rolling ending here). Haha
Another vote for Silverangel. His Econo models are one of the best bang for buck instruments out there. If you can handle a little bassier G string, they really are exceptional. I kept mine over a Collings MT I got in a trade. The finish work on the Collings was a little cleaner, and it was also a very, very good mando, but I like the SA tone. Honestly, though, I’d have been happy having either one as my only mandolin. I also had a 315 as my beater for a while. Great instrument for the $, but didn’t have the complexity of tone that either of the other 2 have...a definite step up to the Collings or SA.
Ratliff, Morris, Weber, and Kratzer are also other options to check out. Good luck!!
If you do make the truck to Nor Cal, you can play my Silverangel. The trip would allow you to play Pava, Girouard, Weber, Collings, And Northfield, plus whatever else happens to be in the shops. But another altenative would be The Mandolin Store in Surprize Az.
Barry Platnick
Dec-14-2019, 2:22pm
Used Collings MT ~ $1500 can't go wrong
NYmando
Dec-15-2019, 12:15pm
Thanks! If I can ever make it up your way, where in no. cal are you?
San Jose
If you were to see an MT foe $1500, don’t think, act.
soliver
Dec-15-2019, 1:05pm
Plus one for Silverangel. You can buy Ken's Econo A for that price and even have it custom built to your specs. I luvr mine!!!
NYmando
Dec-15-2019, 6:47pm
I’ve noticed references to a Silver Angel “Econo” model, but I don’t see it mentioned on the Silver Angel website, or maybe I missed it?
Every year for the last two or three, Ken has offered a dozen or so Econos to be delivered in the summer into the fall, but people have ordered them directly. I guess it's not something he wants to advertise.
Charles E.
Dec-16-2019, 7:29pm
This used Silver Angel "El Toro" just showed up in the classifieds...
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/148371#148371
Right in your price point.
NFI
NYmando
Dec-16-2019, 8:13pm
I’m already on it.
Br1ck
Dec-16-2019, 10:29pm
That El Toro has a lot going for it. Fully bound and with quirky look, you aren't going to be part of the crowd with that one. For what you want to play. it would be perfect.
NYmando
Dec-17-2019, 3:08pm
Pulled the trigger on that an hour ago. We’ll see what shows up on my doorstep next week!
Don Roon
Dec-17-2019, 3:26pm
Pulled the trigger on that an hour ago. We’ll see what shows up on my doorstep next week!
Congratulations...Post a review.
soliver
Dec-17-2019, 3:33pm
EXCITING!!!.... another SA owner joining the fray!
Charles E.
Dec-18-2019, 2:42pm
Pulled the trigger on that an hour ago. We’ll see what shows up on my doorstep next week!
Looks like it is still listed? :confused:
I hope you will have it soon. It looks like a lot of mandolin for the money.
Silverangels in general are smack in the center of the whole tonal mandolin spectrum. Certainly warmer than most f hole carved instruments, they can still hang for bluegrass, but perhaps not be the first choice for that. But for fiddle tunes, celtic, jazz and old time, they rock. You will most likely love it, and the tonal upgrade will put a smile on your face.
NYmando
Dec-18-2019, 4:11pm
After hearing the raves- and having a nice chat with the friendly Ken Ratcliff - i’m really looking forward to trying it. More than I’ve ever spent on an instrument, but we’ll see!
The improvement will be huge, and from here on out any upgrade will be incremental for a lot more money. I went from my Eastman 505 to my SA and the difference instantly wiped out my memory of the price.
Doug Brock
Dec-24-2019, 11:48am
San Jose
If you were to see an MT foe $1500, don’t think, act.
Yep, though that low a price would have me looking for the catch. $2k or a bit under seem pretty standard for MT’s in good shape.
Deblues
Dec-29-2019, 11:38am
So how do you like your Silver Angel mandolin? Just curious, it looked like it would be a real nice one.
Mark Gunter
Dec-30-2019, 10:33am
Yep, though that low a price would have me looking for the catch. $2k or a bit under seem pretty standard for MT’s in good shape.
Bought my MT for $1,500 from a musician friend several years ago; sold it in January through the Classifieds here for $1,600 in about two hours. It was an incredible instrument, very nice IMO
pheffernan
Dec-30-2019, 11:15am
Bought my MT for $1,500 from a musician friend several years ago; sold it in January through the Classifieds here for $1,600 in about two hours. It was an incredible instrument, very nice IMO
Bought my MT for $1600 in 2013 and sold it locally in 2016 for $1500 without fees or issues. Of course, the price of new instruments has gone up since then, which might be impacting the secondary market.
NYmando
Dec-31-2019, 9:02pm
So how do you like your Silver Angel mandolin? Just curious, it looked like it would be a real nice one.
Oh, I wish I could tell you! I'mm still waiting for it. There was a delay at Carter's in getting it shipped, and then they ran into the holidays. To their credit once it got close to the holidays they wanted to wait until they knew it wouldn't get stuck on a a truck somewhere in the midst of holiday shipping, so it didn't get out until yesterday. I'll post next week. Thanks for asking.
NYmando
Jan-07-2020, 9:17pm
Since there was a lot of good feedback I thought I should share the result. I think I've discovered that I don't like bright-sounding mandolins. This one was probably in the middle of tonal range, as someone suggested it might be, who knows, but I couldn't get myself to fall in love with it over a couple of days playing it. It's a beautiful instrument, and will probably be back in Classified after it returns to Carver. For now I'm sticking with my humble JBovier.