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acousticphd
Aug-16-2005, 10:35am
Friends, current and past Flatiron owners and aspirees,

A musician buddy of mine has a 1990 Flatiron F5 he is looking to sell. It is unsigned, with specs consistent with the Performer series (unbound fb and back), and I guess from the Carlson period from the year of make. It shows lots of play wear, but no damage other than a repaired headstock ear. He had the fretboard extension scooped. Very good sounding mandolin.

He's had it out for sale at a couple of festivals and contests, but without a pricetag on it. He's offered it to me, but I like A styles and oval holes. I looked back over some of the threads discussing Flatiron models and values to get and idea, but for this model I'm not very confident of what to advise him. I thought in the $2000 range, if not a little more, based on what the 90's A models seem to bring. Of course, he could and probably should just list it here and see what happens, but I think he'd like to put a good but fair price on it that would get it sold.

So, any feedback (please try to be impartial!) would be appreciated.

Thanks,

pickinNgrinnin
Aug-16-2005, 11:22am
Hey Jeff-

Does it say Performer on Festival on the headstock? With the unbound fb and back, it sounds like a Performer or Festival. Does it have an elevated fretboard or an integrated fretboard? The integrated FB is actually part of the Mando's top and was a cost savings measure in production. Is it X braced? No signatures suggest a Performer Series.

If it is a Performer/Festival and given the wear, I would not want to give more than $1,800 - $2,000. Prices these days are pretty deflated on used Mandos.

The Flatirons came in a Performer Series - Performer and Festival. The Signature Series had the Artist, F5 (tone bar braced)and Master. I believe there was another in this mix but I can't recall the name.

Very nice Mandolins.

acousticphd
Aug-16-2005, 11:42am
Pickin,

I've looked at it carefully several times; there is no model name indicated, or a signature as I remember. The headstock has the simple inlay, not the fancier flowerpot. It's tonebar braced. Elevated FB - although I can't say I've ever seen one with an integrated FB.

Thanks,

pickinNgrinnin
Aug-16-2005, 12:07pm
That's interesting!

I've only seen fern inlays or flowerpot inlays on the Flatiron F's. Most of the Flatiron F5's were X braced. The F5 (that's what it is referred to in their catalog) had a bound FB and back. This one sounds like it is outside of the norm! Perhaps a special order?

If you have a serial number, I'd call Paul Jean Lewis at Sound to Earth (888)886-7598 and get some info from her. She's great to work with. The F5's sold for more $$ than the Performer Series but this one does not sound like your ordinary F5 as it is missing some cosmetics - keeping the price down.

The integrated fretboard is made to look like a elevated fretboard but the fretboard is carved into the top of the Mandolin. It's part of the top, not elevated if that makes sense.

Any flame on the back and sides?

Tom C
Aug-16-2005, 12:55pm
That sounds like a signature series which would be equal to the artist model a few years later. Then the Festival, Performer, Artist came out. Performer has binding on top and back and on headstock. Not on fretboard. It also has inlayed headstock. Festival is only bound on top with a decal on headstock. The Artist has it all with X bracing. Yours I believe would equal the artist with tonebars and a fleur-de-lis http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif on the headstock. Desirable mando.

Tom C
Aug-16-2005, 12:57pm
Oh year. Festival and Performer have the attached fretboard where asd the artist has an elevated one.

acousticphd
Aug-16-2005, 1:05pm
I'll obviously need to look at it again carefully this week and take notes on the specs. I'll also bring this thread to my friend's attn. Thanks for your input,

RMH
Aug-16-2005, 9:02pm
I believe the only Flatiron F style from this period that would have an unbound back would be the Festival. #I have a 89 Performer F and it is bound everywhere but the FB. Easy to tell if it's a Performer. #It says so on the peghead and on the warranty decal.

Ken Berner
Aug-17-2005, 10:01am
I'll take a chance and throw out a figure of $3,000, right off the top of my head. As I look through my Flatiron file, I note an '87 F5 sold for that figure just a couple of years ago. The last Flatiron I know of being signed by Steve Carlson was in '93, but he may still have been there later than that. The F5 is a notch below the F5 Artist and was tone bar braced; should also have "The Flatiron" and traditional flowerpot inlay on the headstock, as well as having prewar style reverse-gear Schaller tuners (nickel). The '95 F5 is bound, top and back. This sounds like a nice instrument to me, and should provide much joy to its owner!

pickinNgrinnin
Aug-17-2005, 12:18pm
Ken, I don't think this one would sell for $3,000. The reason for that being: unbound fb/back, player wear, broken ear and a flat used Mando market. The market has changed quite a bit over the past two years. I'm not sure if this one is an F5 model.

$3,000 may be on the high side for a fully bound F5 in good/excellent condition.

JMHO

Ken Berner
Aug-17-2005, 3:03pm
Thanks pickinNgrinnin, I knew that someone had to have a better grip on this than me. This instrument may not be as desireable as I first thought.Maybe Steven Stone will jump in here too, with more input.

acousticphd
Aug-17-2005, 7:02pm
I'll see the mando again tomorrow night, and maybe try to use that camera-in-a-cell-phone function I paid extra for. #

The early-mid 90s Flatiron model distinctions and heirarchy are confusing to me, because as some of you have noted, over the course of just a few years there were a number of changes.

There's an instrument described as a 1999 Festival on vintagemandolin.com that, to my best memory, closely resembles my friend's instrument. # : '99 Festival (http://www.vintagemandolin.com/99flatironperformerf_901001069.html)

The thing is, I think this is in fact a 1990, from the SN# . #If you'll notice, the next instrument listed on the site is also a 1999 Festival, but clearly doesn't have the the same appointments - it has a bound fb, different style of tuners and buttons, and a second interior label is visible. #The headstocks each have the simple fleur-du-lis, without a model name. #I can't tell from the pictures if either or both of these has back binding, it's so understated. #Maybe I'm mistaken about the the unbound back on the mando I'm asking about. #


More later, and again thanks,

pickinNgrinnin
Aug-17-2005, 10:53pm
Jeff-

Both of the Flatiron Festivals on Chas Johnson's site are Nashville made Flatirons. I've owned 2 of these along the M.A.S. trail. The serial number on the one indicates that it was made in 1999 - it's the first and last number in the sequence. The other Festival on his site looks to have a bound fb. Could have been a special order or an upgrade by Gibson. That's the only Nashville Festival I've seen with a bound fb. They come with an unbound back. The last Nash Festival I sold went for $1,850 and that was a year ago. The ones on Charles site have nice looking backs but are priced a bit high IMO.

Charles Johnson
Aug-17-2005, 11:25pm
Hi PickinNgrinnin,
I think they are priced fairly. In fact, I just sold the 1993 on Friday and one of the the 1999s today http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

These are great mandos and IMHO underpriced on the market. That whole Flatiron blowout when Gibson discontinued the line coupled with the Mars Music bankruptcy selloff at the same time put a lot of these on the market at depressed prices, but that surplus has been soaked up and prices are rising again. After all, they are a Gibson built F5.

Best regards,
Charles Johnson

jim_n_virginia
Aug-18-2005, 1:39am
Depressed market or not $1800. for a Festival is a pretty low price. When Guitar Center dumped their Flatiron line there was a mad rush to buy Festivals and Performers (not Artists) for $1700.00 and that was almost 5 or 6 years ago I think I could be wrong.

Anyways I have watched Flatiron prices carefully since then and have owned two myself and the prices have steadily crept up to the point #where from what I've seen $2250- $2500.00 seems to be the going rate about for Festivals and Performers and $3200- $4000 for Artist series in great shape.

And yes the market is a little soft I agree but I haven't seen the prices drop, rather they just take longer to sell but sell they do...eventually.

Just going by the description and not seeing the mandolin I wouldn't sell that mando for less than $2000.00 #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

kudzugypsy
Aug-18-2005, 6:39am
i would jump on ANY flatiron. they have the gibson workmanship without the logo. (i wont go any further - as you know the rift going on with gibby)
its really a shame there is no more flatiron. i know the folks at weber have sort of filled that slot, but i just dont think they have gathered the same mojo as the old flatiron brand. we could really use another flatiron type maker right now.
notice how the neck heel changed on the 99 F, compared to the original neck heel on the bozeman flatirons.

pickinNgrinnin
Aug-18-2005, 10:17am
Congratulations Charles. It seems they have been on your site for awhile now. If you float them out there long enough, eventually, you will get a bite. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif That's a good deal for you.

I bought my first Nash Festival (2 years ago) through the GC blowout for $1,600. That sale definitely brought down the value of the Mandolin. The second one I bought used, for $1,600. Sold them both for a profit. Agree 100% that these Mandos are undervalued. I still think they are a best buy among US made Mandolins. Essentially the same instruments as the F5-G. I love these Nashville made Festivals but I wouldn't give $2,300 for one in todays market. Apparently some folks would. YMMV.

acousticphd
Aug-18-2005, 11:13am
Hmm. I had a 2001 Performer A, so I did know that at that point the year was indicated by the 1st and last numbers, but I'm sure I must stand corrected in this case. So did the Flatiron serial number code work again? Some had eight digits, some had nine? When did the 1990s instruments change from the year being indicated from the the first two numbers, to the first and last number?

I should shut up until I look at the mandolin again tonight...:O

pickinNgrinnin
Aug-18-2005, 11:57am
[QUOTE]When did the 1990s instruments change from the year being indicated from the the first two numbers, to the first and last number?

I believe the numbering system changed some time after they moved the operation from Montana to Nashville in 96. Supposedly, for a time after the move, they were assembling Mandolins from parts made in Montana.

It's hard to go wrong with a Nashville Flatiron Festival.

Where's Kevin M to chime in here? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

acousticphd
Aug-19-2005, 1:18pm
Well -

There's a good reason, it turns out, that this mandolin so closely resembles the '99 Festival mentioned above at vintagemandolin.com. It is (I believe) also a '99 Nashville Flatiron; I was misled by the serial # which started with "90" (#90325039). It has the single top binding, unbound back, and the same headstock appearance of the one shown above. Sorry for the inaccurate info on my part, but thank you all for the various input. It's definitely well-played - has a thumb-sized area of finish worn off the back of the neck, repaired ear, and some other dings, but very good playability and sound. I'd still be interested in opinions of what a fair asking price might be.

Moose
Aug-19-2005, 2:43pm
Just to add to the "corn-fusion" : I recently purchased an "A" Flatiron - CAFE classified - we(I) tried/questioned to get a "reading" on the exact model - it went into http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?? -'cause it didn't/DON'T fit in with any of the model descriptions! - So I asked Chas. Johnson(who looked at it @ Philly Guitar Show). HE replied that: "....that's Gibson...; seems they used whatever was laying 'round the shop at the time." - or words to that effect(seriously, Charles, thanks for the "input"/info.) They(Gibson) appear to not exactly be 'constistant" at THAT period of/in transition. This is NOT(!) to bash Gibson-Flatiron - I enjoy the mando but..., I have an "early" "A" Chas.HORNER(1990) that absolutely blows the FI away - (Incidently, I bought the HORNER from Charles - Thanks Charles! I wouldn't sell it for the price I paid you!!) - Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

pickinNgrinnin
Aug-19-2005, 3:47pm
Last year, I sold a Nashville Festival F (in excellent condition) for $1,850 and it took awhile to sell. I bought it used for $1,650 from a local shop. $1,650 was a great price for this Mandolin and the owner of the store wanted to move it. IMO, the Mandolin market is flatter today than it was a year ago. Given the condition of the Festival you are looking at, I'd offer $1,700.

I'm not looking to buy or sell another Festival so I have no financial interest here.