Kay Mandolin A style F holes Mand-8

[AllenPitts]

Hello Mandolin Cafe Forum

Inherited a mandolin from uncle's estate. Been playing for
about a year. Thinking about upgrading. Trying to decide
whether to upgrade the Kay or buy a new mandolin
179036
A lot of it comes down to the quality and worth of the Kay I have.
179037
Have done some research Found
https://ourpastimes.com/how-to-determine-the-age-of-an-antique-silvertone-guitar-12472389.html
But this says 'Check the headstock and sound hole for serial numbers. But that's about it

179032

Other research indicates that the Kay Musical Instrument Company of Chicago made mandolins between about 1930 until about 1955 when they became focused on electric guitars.

179034

Have noticed that it is about a half an inch thicker than the Eastman and Kentucky F style mandos held by guys at the bluegrass jams
179035

The tuning pegs are pretty stiff and a bit discolored so I was considering going to StewMac and getting some new tuning machines for $70 and then another $50 for the luthier to install and the old girl would really look pretty good. Or is the Mand-8 of such poor quality that it does make sense to invest even $120.

For instance if the instrument is only worth $50 dollar the upgrade is ludicrous. But if it is worth $300 maybe its worth it.
179038
So two questions:
1. Any guess as to when it was made? Probably the older the more 'vintage' and worthy.
2. Approximate ballpark as to worth. Have look on eBay and Craigs List and cant find a comparable.

Thanks

Allen in Dallas

[AllenPitts]

Hello Mandolin Cafe Forum

Inherited a mandolin from uncle's estate. Been playing for
about a year. Thinking about upgrading. Trying to decide
whether to upgrade the Kay or buy a new mandolin

A lot of it comes down to the quality and worth of the Kay I have.

Have done some research Found
https://ourpastimes.com/how-to-determine-the-age-of-an-antique-silvertone-guitar-12472389.html
But this says 'Check the headstock and sound hole for serial numbers. But that's about it.

The back of the headstock does have a gold tone sticker with the test 'Mand-8', photo herewith.

179032

Other research indicates that the Kay Musical Instrument Company of Chicago made mandolins between about 1930 until about 1955 when they became focused on electric guitars.

179034

Have noticed that it is about a half an inch thicker than the Eastman and Kentucky F style mandos held by guys at the bluegrass jams
179035

The tuning pegs are pretty stiff and a bit discolored so I was considering going to StewMac and getting some new tuning machines for $70 and then another $50 for the luthier to install and the old girl would really look pretty good. Or is the Mand-8 of such poor quality that it does make sense to invest even $120.

For instance if the instrument is only worth $50 dollar the upgrade is ludicrous. But if it is worth $300 maybe its worth it.

So two questions:
1. Any guess as to when it was made? Probably the older the more 'vintage' and worthy.
2. Approximate ballpark as to worth. Have look on eBay and Craigs List and cant find a comparable.

Thanks

Allen in Dallas

[rcc56]

Most Kay teardrop mandolins have a very low market value, maybe around +/- $100. Yours is a little fancier than most, but I don't think it would have a major effect on the value.

The tuners might work a little better with a drop of 3 in 1 oil on the bearings, and the adjusting screws should be checked to insure that they are snug rather than very tight. They look like older Japanese or Korean tuners to me.

You might want to consider spending your money on a modern Eastman or Kentucky student model. $500 will buy a used Eastman 505, which would likely be a better mandolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

Yes, I can tell when it was made and it wasn't made by Kay. These are circa late 70's-early 80's. It was imported along with hundreds of other mandolins with different brand names on them from Japan and then Korea. It is one of these (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/threads/79118-Key-Brand-Info). The only thing that this has in common with earlier Kay instruments is the name that was on the headstock. Similar mandolins fail to sell weekly on eBay.

If you enjoy it play it. We have one member that started out on one of these and liked it.

Here is the history that applies to your mandolin:


(1969–present)

The assets of Kay/Valco were auctioned off in 1969. The upright bass and cello lines were sold to Engelhardt-Link, a new company formed by a previous Valco member, which has continued production (see #Kay basses for details). The Kay name (and some of its trademarks, such as Knox[citation needed]) were acquired by Teisco importer, Weiss Musical Instruments[2] (W.M.I., Sol Weindling and Barry Hornstein), who put the Kay name on the Teisco products beginning in 1973, and continued on through the 1970s.[11][12]

In 1980, A.R. Enterprises (Tony Blair) purchased the Kay trademark.[12]

[MikeEdgerton]

Most Kay teardrop mandolins have a very low market value, maybe around +/- $100. Yours is a little fancier than most, but I don't think it would have a major effect on the value.

The tuners might work a little better with a drop of 3 in 1 oil on the bearings, and the adjusting screws should be checked to insure that they are snug rather than very tight. They look like older Japanese or Korean tuners to me.

You might want to consider spending your money on a modern Eastman or Kentucky student model. $500 will buy a used Eastman 505, which would likely be a better mandolin.

This isn't a US Made Kay.

[rcc56]

I didn't say it was. Doesn't make any difference anyway.

I don't know why I bother contributing. Seems like everything is turning into a contest here.
I've got better things to do. Bye.

[Marty Jacobson]

Regardless of what instrument it is, I was going to comment on the concept of "upgrading an instrument".

Unless something is broken (i.e., tailpiece only holds 6 strings, tuners don't work, bridge is cracked), then upgrading an instrument will make very little, or maybe absolutely no difference in tone.

The most important parts of an instrument are: its string geometry and fret positions (because without that it isn't a mandolin), the top plate (because without it the parts of the instrument won't be set in motion by the movement of the strings), and the rest of the structure (back, sides, neck).
At least that's how I rank them. So in the top 3 most important things, 1 is easily adjusted (the setup), but the other two most important things, the top and overall structure, are inherent to the instrument and essentially impossible to upgrade.

You can get usability improvements by replacing the tailpiece and tuning machines, and maybe a bit of tone by fitting the bridge better. Other than that, do not spend a lot of money on an instrument which is not already worth quite a bit more than you're putting into it.

[Dave Sheets]

This site has a discussion on cleaning and adjusting tuners, worth trying before you replace the tuners.

http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

Set up is really important for mandolins, search this site for info on Rob Meldrum's valuable yet free set-up guide. That well help you get the most out of this mandolin, without spending a lot. It's certainly a fun thing to have, particularly if it's been in the family.

[mandolinstew]

I have a Kay like that and I like it.Not as great as my Flatiron or Kentucky,but sounds and plays good for a $80 Mandolin.New tuners and fitted a new bridge I’m keeping it.

[AllenPitts]

Hello Mandolin Café Forum,

Thanks to
Dave Sheets
Marty Jacobson
RCC56
and most especially Mike Edgerton for the excellent information.

Knowledge is power. The expertise and familiarity shared will
certainly prevent me from making a poor decision.

Was leaning toward upgrading the faux Kay Mand-8. Although
the Mand-8 reminds me of my uncle it would be a fools errand to
invest in an upgrade. I will keep the instrument, hang it on the wall,
because it is an object of some beauty, because it is a family
heirloom and because I have
spent many hours of my newb phase of mandolin playing it.

But the Mand-8 will not be the object of ownership of an
instrument that is warranted by hundreds of hours spent
playing and practicing over the last year and hundreds more,
hopefully in the future.

So the question now becomes the next step.
(Perhaps the etiquette of the forum dictates
that a new question requires a new post. If so
indicated will move this query to a new thread.)

The predilection is to a used instrument
because it is believed from experience buying
and selling dozens six string acoustic and electric guitars
over fifty years that one can maximize the
utility and beauty of an instrument acquisition by avoiding
retail dealers The problem with the preowned approach is
one has to know what to look for. Luckily I have a mentor,
Gerald Jones who can guide me.

(Once bought a used Takimini Jasmine for $200. Saw
a brand new one online two weeks later for $99.)


My budget is approx. $1000

So could choose one of many preowned in the
$500 to $900 range:

Mandolin Cafe Classifieds
1949 Levin Model 41 $895
Kentucky KM $499
Eastman MD 305 $479
Eastman MD 505 $699

or

shop at the $2-3k level
and hope to find some who needs to
sell and try to get them down
to, say $1500.

What is a good strategy?

Allen in Dallas

[Eric F.]

For $1,500 I think you could buy a Silverangel Econo A or a Ratliff Country Boy and be happy for a long time. If it fits your budget, getting into this price range will probably make a big difference.

[pheffernan]

My budget is approx. $1000

So could choose one of many preowned in the
$500 to $900 range:

Mandolin Cafe Classifieds
1949 Levin Model 41 $895
Kentucky KM $499
Eastman MD 305 $479
Eastman MD 505 $699

or

shop at the $2-3k level
and hope to find some who needs to
sell and try to get them down
to, say $1500.

What is a good strategy?

Allen in Dallas

You could get a lifetime flattop mandolin for less than your $1000 budget and a lifetime archtop if you could stretch to that $1500 number.