FFCP scale question--G

[Kelly_guy]

I've started working on the FFcP scales that are linked in the mandolin cafe "lessons" area. It looks like a great approach, but I'm a bit confused.

There is only one way presented to play a G scale, and it starts on the D string 5th fret! What about the rest of the G scale below that? There is no hint given anywhere in the lesson or the PDF file on how to play the rest of that scale. Should I just continue down using the same position, and use the open G string, then start back up?

It's sure giving my pinkie a workout, but I can see how this approach could really broaden my playing abilities a huge amount.

[Tim]

Remember, a G-scale is the major scale starting with a G note. #The one that starts on the D-string, fifth fret is the only one you can play on a mandolin using strictly FFcP. #The G-scale that is lower than that must have at least one open string. #The G-scale higher than that must be played only on the E-string.

[Ted Eschliman]

Certainly, you can play the octave below, but the point is to start out developing one octave patterns, (temporarily) avoiding open strings (which is what you'd use on the lowest G of that scale...).
The exercise is academic of course, but once you get the Four Basic positions down, you can move it all over the fingerboard. No reason to not start that now; eventually, you can add open strings, too.
I'm considering offering Scott the FFcP Part II, "Moving on Up" which does just that, adding octaves and moving the scale up the fretboard.
Anyone interested?

[Pete Braccio]

Anyone interested?

Like, yeah! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Pete

[Hog on Ice]

Do it, Ted!

Your FFcP system really helped me understand the mando freboard, and is also helping me visualize the more subtle (to me, at least) relationships between the notes in a scale. Actually, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to extend it to include higher and lower octaves - that's what I get for just looking at the pictures...

A second chapter can only help to lead me and countless other disciples to new heights in mandolatry.

c~

[arbarnhart]

The FFCP is a map of relationships of notes on a scale. You can move it up and down and even move it down to 0 to include open strings to get that lowest G scale. You can start a scale on an imaginary C string and just pick it up where it crosses to the G. You interconnect them with overlap on the tonic and keep right on truckin'

A trick I use - within a given octave, there will be a fret skipped between every two fingers except between the two before the one you started with which are one fret apart. So the FFCP really only has one thing to remember, not four.

[groveland]

Now that we're all stealing Ted's thunder... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Another thing you will notice is that any set of notes found on the G and D string will be found on the A and E string 2 frets down... For example, using FFcP style:
http://www.grovelandsoftwarelabs.com/images/ffcf.jpg

These are great tricks for remembering the patterns, extending them, and simplifying things.

Warning: Sometimes patterns become so convenient that we forget about tonality. A big benefit of Ted's FFcP is that the all-important tonality is always retained in his bite-sized chunks.

Ted, hope I didn't overstep my bounds.

[Ted Eschliman]

By request:
FFcP Part 2 (http://www.mandolincafe.com/eschliman2.html): "Movin' on Up..."
(Be sure to click on the PDF icon at the top of the page.)

[e.taylor]

Ted, I just wanted to jump in and give a quick (hopefully) 2 cents worth...i am really new to the mandolin, like got a beater 5 weeks ago.
i started FFcP yesterday morning and wound up playing/working on it most of the day...it is wonderful!!! To me, it felt like my playing had been shot out of a cannon...i'm goin'...ohh yeah! and okay i see now....thank you (i'm with you on other parts of the site also ;-) eddie in Abq.

[Ted Eschliman]

Eddie, the FFcP (http://www.mandolincafe.com/eschliman1.html) was taylor-made for guys (or gals) like you who already have some musical background, possibly some theory (although these exercises can reinforce the mental part, too!), and guitar veteran connverts who have already developed a bit of dexterity on the fretboard.
Glad it's happening so fast for you, but it's only because you've just been introduced to the mandolin's "dirty little secret" of transparent transposability!
(It's not like you permanently lose the open strings either; you can just add them back to your arsenal once you're comfortable employing your pinky.)

[billkilpatrick]

i'm a convert too! it makes such good sense to play this way. it also demonstrates what a perfectly logical instrument the mandolin is. i've tried - half-heartedly - to adapt the ffcp approach to those instruments i have tuned in 4ths (guitar, charango, quiet but soulful baritone uke) but it's like pulling teeth.

most of the ffcp exercises and tunes i've worked on to date are in the major scales. on occasion, i've slipped into a minor mode but it's definitely been a case of the hand instinctively knowing more than the head.

[dan@kins]

Would someone please define FFcP?

I'm thinking cP is "closed position".
Not sure about the FF part.

thanks.

[billkilpatrick]

right you are ... "ffcp" stands for "four finger closed position " ie: index, ring, middle and pinky

[Martin Jonas]

Dan@kins -- have you looked at the lessons (http://www.mandolincafe.com/eschliman1.html) discussed in this thread? The definition of FFcP is right there in the headline: Four-Finger Closed Position.

Incidentally, much the same concept is also introduced in a somewhat different manner (based on instantly transposed tunes rather than scales) in Simon Mayor's "Mastering The Mandolin". I love the transposability of closed position playing!

Martin

[dan@kins]

I had not yet looked at the lessons discussed in this thread. I had downloaded PDf frmo a link someone had put up in another thread yesterday. They were practice sheets for more common keys and had been created by Mr Mandohack. . . anyway there were several scale patterns listed and described as FFcP, and I saw that term being discussed so I asked.

You're right, I should have read the lesson. . .

Apologies. . . but thanks for the info.

[David Horovitz]

I've been working through these patterns off and on for a while now. In general they've really helped my finger strength and fretboard knowledge. But I really struggle with the contrary motion and guide tones sections that require playing consecutive notes with the pinky on adjacent strings. I'll keep drilling this but it's hard to imagine ever being able to produce a clean tone doing this with the pinky. Lower action, a radiused board and lighter strings would help too, I guess. Anyone else struggle with this?

[Ted Eschliman]

The issue of 4th (& 3rd) finger strength and control on such string crossings certainly is a challenge and will be topic of an upcoming (December) mandolinsessions (http://www.mandolinsessions.com) article. I've prepared an accompanying exercise for this article; anyone interested in an advance preview, email me offline and I'll send you a copy in exchange for some feedback.