Remove Frets & Scoop

[CBFrench]

I searched but could not find specific info. I just bought an Eastman MD305. Question: Could/would it be possible or advisable to have maybe 6 frets removed and what about it being scooped? I really like the tone playing up the neck on some tunes but frets I'd never use are in the way.

[DavidKOS]

I never advise against removing part of your instrument's upper range...but that's my minority opinion.

[Drew Streip]

When you say playing up the neck, are you referring to fretting notes, or actually picking/strumming over the end of the fretboard? That mandolin and many other Eastman (and other major brands) already have a shortened fretboard because 99% of players don’t use those highest frets, but do like the ability to pick closer to the sweet spot.

If the highest frets are causing issues with your fretted notes, like buzzes or dead notes, you need a fret job, not a removal. It would be relatively easy for a luthier to 1) address just the offending frets, 2) level all your frets as part of a full setup, or 3) create a uniform “drop-off” after the 15th fret but keep the frets in place.

If it’s your picking hand that’s the issue... maybe practice not digging in as much. I like the warm tone over the end of the fretboard but use it as an effect, not as my standard playing position.

It’s your instrument and you can do what you want, but removing frets on an already shortened fretboard would be unorthodox. It sounds like there’s a conventional problem and solution to your issue.

[dang]

Do it. (http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/DropTongue/droptongue.html)

[pops1]

Mine came from the builder scooped. I think those that aren't may be due to the extra work involved. It is a personal decision tho. I prefer the look of a scooped Florida myself, and hate the pick click on those that are not.

[lenf12]

If you would never use them and they're in the way, go for it. It's your mandolin to alter to your preferences. Besides, it's not a very high dollar instrument although a nice starter.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[T.D.Nydn]

Learn to play it as is,,

[Ray(T)]

If you remove the frets, you’ll have to have it scooped at least as far as the bottom of the fret slots.

If you don’t use the frets why not? I have a mandolin with a scooped florida and the original builder inlayed frets for purely visual reasons beyond the 21 real frets. My Kimble has 22 frets and I don’t miss there not being a florida. My two vintage Gibsons each have 20 frets and I’ve never heard of anyone complaining that those should have a few more.

[CBFrench]

well it was just a thought anyway, tks for the answers, no biggie...I just got the mandolin a week ago today and slowly learning a few things, I can hear it just finding it is another thing. So I'll go out on a limb here as I know all you guy's/gal's can play and this is just a newbie's attempt and all wrong but just what I was hearing at the time this morning...help

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bPNFeuqYxOGQXwwTU8Hm3QoRsmH0LlL6/view?usp=sharing

[Mandoplumb]

Mine came from the builder scooped. I think those that aren't may be due to the extra work involved. It is a personal decision tho. I prefer the look of a scooped Florida myself, and hate the pick click on those that are not.

I would think it more work to fret the Florida than scoop it but regardless it is a matter of choice. Ray just blocked off the end of my Dearstone, no Florida like it fine, my Kentucky 900 has Florida, fully fretted, like it fine, if it bothers you modify it. If I was to modify mine I'd chop it off, I personally don't like the looks of the scoop YMMV

[DavidKOS]

If you would never use them and they're in the way, go for it. It's your mandolin to alter to your preferences. Besides, it's not a very high dollar instrument although a nice starter.


So how does a "newbie" know that they are never going to use the upper register frets?

I can understand folks that have been playing mandolin in certain styles long enough to know they are not going to use those frets, but there's still a chance that the OP may one day want to learn to play something that does use the higher register.

[Ray(T)]

But, as I implied, not all mandolins have them anyway. Frets up in “dog whistle” territory seem to be the preserve of instuments with floridas and some bowlbacks.

[Jeff Hildreth]

Fully fretted, always.

I find it curious that the affectation of removing frets and scooping hasn't hit the guitar world but seems to be prevalent with mandolin and banjo (frailing/clawhammer)

This to me is like removing the last few chapters of a book.

[DavidKOS]

Fully fretted, always.

I find it curious that the affectation of removing frets and scooping hasn't hit the guitar world but seems to be prevalent with mandolin and banjo (frailing/clawhammer)

This to me is like removing the last few chapters of a book.

I can understand the frailing/clawhammer folks , to a certain extent they don't play much way up the neck past the 12th fret anyway.

I have never seen guitar players remove upper frets.

[rcc56]

An alternative to scooping the extension is to pull the frets, fill the slots with maple purfling strips or plastic binding material, and sand the strips flush to the top of the extension.

This process is reversible. To reinstall the frets, a Dremel with a jeweler's bit in a router base can be used to clean the maple strips out of the slots. The bit will cut through the maple or plastic without cutting out any significant amount of fingerboard material. I have used this technique to remove the flush plastic "frets" on a couple of Hawaiian guitar conversions.

[CBFrench]

Tks rcc56, no merit debates, just straight answer. There is absolutely nothing but a muted thump coming from last six frets no matter how hard they’re depressed. Sounds like a good option on this one to simply remove those few frets

[Hendrik Ahrend]

That F5 extension looks really wonderful to my eye; I'd never scoop it. I found that it's the large (triangular) picks, which produce the clicking noise, hardly the smaller ones.

[rcc56]

Tks rcc56, no merit debates, just straight answer. There is absolutely nothing but a muted thump coming from last six frets no matter how hard they’re depressed. Sounds like a good option on this one to simply remove those few frets

True, especially on an F-5 with a long extension. But the original poster's mandolin is a 23 fret instrument, not a 29 or 30 fret instrument like some F-5's. He may want those high notes later.

I have been known to go up and get a high C or even a high D, but not very often. On my 24 fret instrument, I removed the 23rd fret [Dave Apollon style] so I can get a clear E if I want it.

Anyway, it only takes a few minutes to inlay and level the strips, and it looks better than leaving the empty slots. And, at least for those of us who are experienced with fret work, this method is quicker, easier, and less invasive than scooping the board.

It's just another alternative, which happens to be reversible.

Another approach would be to cut off the fingerboard at fret 19 or 20, but I don't recommend it, for a number of reasons.

[bigskygirl]

I searched but could not find specific info. I just bought an Eastman MD305. Question: Could/would it be possible or advisable to have maybe 6 frets removed and what about it being scooped? I really like the tone playing up the neck on some tunes but frets I'd never use are in the way.

No.

Take the money and use it on lessons, if you are hearing pick click you’re digging in too deep and it’s poor technique. No amount of scooping will fix that.

[Todd Bowman]

As a resident of the sunshine state, I take offense at those of you who want to cut off Florida! (Just kidding).

[MikeEdgerton]

Here (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=scoop+site%3Amandolincafe.com) is every thread with the word Scoop in it on the Cafe. I scooped my Gibson F5G years ago. I started out using the Frank Ford method found here (http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/DropTongue/droptongue.html). I removed mine because I kept hitting it with my pick. It's a personal decision that you should make after you play a bit and see if it's a problem. I never ever found myself even trying to hit a note that far up on the fretboard. Even Dave Appolon who is the only person I know of that regularly used any of those frets removed one fret so he could actually fret that note.

[John Bertotti]

I posted this thought in my Peghead Nation thread awhile back. I noticed that my picking was slower and my pick tip was getting caught on the strings more. So I decided to practice while playing over the fretboard. Slow and careful to get clean picking without hitting the fretboard. Man is that hard but I also notice that my picking speed was picking up and my pick wasn't getting caught int he strings anymore. I think it is a valid exercise practicing over the fretboard and working on not hitting the strings. I think my problem was I was sewing machining my picking hand, too much verticle movement from the strings, so I was digging in too much. Just a thought and it certainly isn't easy but it is a good exercise and you may find you do not need to scoop after doing this for a few months.

[bigskygirl]

As a resident of the sunshine state, I take offense at those of you who want to cut off Florida! (Just kidding).

Ha! I am from So. FL and specifically wanted the Florida on my mando!

[JeffD]

I had the floridectomy done on my Paris Swing. The florida was right under the sweet spot and constantly got in the way.

Since the whole idea of the Paris Swing is its style and look, I had the scooped florida fitted with faux frets. Retained the cool look.

Had it been a much better mandolin I might not have had it done, but as it is, it gets played a whole lot more than it would have without the operation.

[Jim Garber]

There is no Florida on an Eastman MD305 (see below). It is a pretty stumpy extension. However, if it really bothers you I would do what rcc56 suggests esp if it is reversible. A friend of mine has a Gibson A-5 and it does have a Florida and I can see how that can get in the way. All my mandolins don't have that but I do play up the neck at times and would find a way to play around that problem but that is just me.

178139

[CBFrench]

On my 305 there is absolutely no musical tones coming from the last six frets, nothing but a muted thump after fret 17. I'm a beginner at mandolin but not stringed instruments, so thinking it's not me but the instrument

[Jim Garber]

On my 305 there is absolutely no musical tones coming from the last six frets, nothing but a muted thump after fret 17. I'm a beginner at mandolin but not stringed instruments, so thinking it's not me but the instrument

Could be some setup if you really want those frets. You still might not get the dulcet tones but they may sound like something. Another consideration is resale. If you scoop or chop it off you may get even less on resale. Not so crucial since it is a lower end instrument bought used, but you will lose some resale value. On the other hand if you have your heart set on doing it, then chop or scoop away.

[CBFrench]

tks, it was just a thought in being able to pick up the neck more cleanly for the tone at times, no biggie and I don't ever get that high even on guitar. I'm sure I'll leave it as it is.

[Marcus CA]

My left hand never goes above the 19th fret. My right hand usually goes around West Palm Beach, where the sweet spot of my mandolin lies. I was a mandoclicker.

Last year, I finally decided to get the Florida scooped, so I took it down to Gryphon for the operation. The guy in the service department was a newbie and clearly a guitar-only guy, so he had no idea what I was talking about or how much it would cost. Finally, he called Frank over. Frank asked me how bad the click was, because if I wasn’t totally digging in, a $45 quintuple fretectomy would take care of the problem. If it didn’t, I could bring the mando back for the $250 excavation.

I took the gamble and won. The click is gone, and I have yet to reach for a fret that is no longer there.

[Jeff Hildreth]

I do not recall Jethro having played any mandolins that were emasculated.