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View Full Version : RH technique, no breakthrough yet



mycatmarti
Aug-03-2005, 6:28am
I've been playing mandolin for about 3 weeks now, and I haven't found a teacher yet, but I'm reading my books and going to as many concerts as I can where there might be a mandolin.

I'm resting my right hand on the strings behind the bridge and my hand on the bridge, but my wrist is staying pretty stiff. I'm using a stick and am trying to balance it and relax my wrist as an exercise, to help, but I'm still having trouble with my fingers and pick hitting wrong strings, it's like I have a muscle flex in my hand and it just lashes out and hits another string. The funny thing is, when I play my cello, my right arm is my bowing arm, and I have a very relaxed wrist, but when I pick, everything gets all stiff. I've tried resting my little finger on the pickguard, but my playing is even worse than when I rest my wrist on the bridge and strings.

The pictures of people holding their picks looks cumbersome, but I've tried it and it feels really unnatural. My hand just turns into a fist, which isn't limber at all.

Although if I memorize a piece and then play it without the music, it seems to improve. My eyesight is also pretty bad and I can't see the strings.

I don't think I was this bad when I started playing cello in 1969. Everything came naturally with that, but the mandolin seems to be something I'm fighting with.

adgefan
Aug-03-2005, 6:50am
If you've been playing 3 weeks, just keep praticising and don't worry about it! It took me over a year to get my right hand technique to something approaching good, and I still have a lot to improve on (tremelo and double stops are still really difficult for me, for example).

Practice playing tunes *very* slowly, making sure you get the down and up strokes in the right place and don't speed up until you can play it through without mistakes. This requires incredible patience and something I didn't start doing until very recently, but now I'm reaping the benefits.

Chris Thile's DVD has a great section all about this which I found very helpful.

mycatmarti
Aug-03-2005, 6:57am
I'll start playing slower. Edgar Meyer, in his book (which name I can't remember right now) suggests playing painfully slow and getting everything right. If you practive fast you also practice mistakes. And I guess it takes 45 year old muscles longer to learn things than 9 year old muscles, which was the age I started playing cello. One thing is that I'm used to a bit of an arc in a fingerboard, whereas mandolins and guitars are straight across.

Martin Jonas
Aug-03-2005, 6:58am
Pick grip is really tricky without some sort of teacher. There are a lot of different approaches to right hand attitude. I personally get on much better if I don't rest any part of my hand or wrist on the mandolin at all. My right forearm touches the edge of the mandolin, but my wrist and hand are well clear of bridge and strings.

Much tutorial material gives little or no guidance on right hand technique, even though it's so paramount for tone. Two tutors that I found very useful are the Chris Thile DVD "Essential Techniques for Mandolin" on Homespun, and Simon Mayor's "The Mandolin Tutor" book/CD set.

The Thile DVD has about five minutes solely on how to hold the pick, and it's very clear with having the visual feedback to see exactly what he's talking about. Of course, this is his personal preference, lots of other people do it differently. Also, even though he has a great range of styles these days, his background is basically bluegrass played on carved F-styles. His pick grip and arm position may be less suitable for other styles and other mandolins, but it should give you some pointers.

The Simon Mayor tutor covers a lot of different styles (including classical, which from the cello reference I suspect is yoru background) and has a lot of useful things to say about pick grip and wrist position. The visual feedback isn't as good as on a DVD, but his writing is very clear and listening to the CD (where he also explains things further) gives a fairly good clue of what he's on about.

There have been a number of threads on pick grip in the classical section of the Cafe -- a search may give you some more leads.

Good luck!

Martin

250sc
Aug-03-2005, 6:58am
Three weeks isn't a very long time and you will find that it takes time for your hands to find the best way to do things.

I'm no expert but I would suggest that you 1.Don't rest your hand on or behind the bridge unless you are doing it real lightly (just barely touching) and 2. pay special attention to pick direction. (When playing 8th notes the pick direction should be down, up, down, up,down, up, down, up.)

Give it some time and keep practiceing.

jmcgann
Aug-03-2005, 8:35am
Patience and common sense. Food For Thought (http://www.johnmcgann.com/techtips.html)

Darren Kern
Aug-03-2005, 9:34am
One thing I did when I was brand new and wanted to learn some songs in addition to just practicing- I learned a few waltzes. They sound good slow, and most of them sound good with tremolo so it's a good opportunity to practice that as well. Ashokan Farewell and the Godfather Theme are two of the first ones I've learned, you can find the tab (TEF) files at mandozine I think.

glauber
Aug-03-2005, 9:36am
Picking was very hard for me - i've played guitar before, but never with a pick. You may want to try the F-1 pick (http://www.f1pick.com/). Big City Strings usually has them, but they seem to be out now, but you can still get them from the manufacturer. They may help your fingers find the commonly used position. When i was starting, the main things that caused me to grip the pick too hard were fear of dropping and the tendency of some picks to rotate out of position. Because of the way the F-1s are shaped, you can hold them very lightly without either of these problems. Of course, when you're doing it right, you can hold any pick lightly and it won't fall or rotate, but i digress...

I like the "heavy" (1mm) black one. I use it a lot.

John Flynn
Aug-03-2005, 9:42am
I played the guitar for 20 years before picking up the mando and still had to struggle with it for years. Going to mando from cello would be harder, I think. Don't be too hard on yourself. If you can play anything after 3 weeks, you are doing good. Keep at it and relax. My right hand tension was so bad, up until I have been playing for a few years, that I could push the bridge out of position!

mycatmarti
Aug-03-2005, 10:23am
I haven't pushed the bridge out of place, yet, but I do get it really sweaty. It may warp. I've turned the strings a funny color too. Thank goodness strings for the mandolin are cheap compared to my cello. The set I've been using cost me $184.00. I can get mando strings for around $4, and the really expensive ones are only $11 or so.