Gordon/Eastmans/Logo/Etc.

[Links]

Gordon:

Didn't mean to get you in "trouble" in the other thread, but appreciate your response. I sent you an email not too long ago, but you probably didn't get it, as I know you are quite diligent in answering.

I know that it is quite difficult choosing a logo, but I saw a dozen ones that are much more attractive than the one you have now. I'll help you decide if you need help.

In the past fifteen years an organization in which I have served as president (American Society of Golf Course Architects) has participated in a contest with Golf Digest called the "Armchair Architect". Since everyone thinks they can design a golf course, we gave the general public a chance to design their own golf holes. The first year we had fifteen thousand entries (it may have been five thousand, but it was a bunch). 95% we could eliminate at one glance. We boiled it down to 100 and finally down to 10 and then voted.

The point is, that there is a method that can work, especially if you have a "jury" of artistic people. I can find you those folks among my peers if you are interested. Most of us are trained in architecture or landscape architecture (both heavy in the arts).

(Continued)

[Links]

I might mention that I saw and played a gorgeous blonde 915 the other day and am still considering buying it. I think you know that I also "volunteered" to buy your first 915 with the new logo.

Thanks again for the reply and let me know if I can help on the new logo!

John

[OdnamNool]

#I'll help you decide if you need help.
Well, Heh-looooooooooooooooow, Links! # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

You like bugs?

[eastcarterman]

I am a Landscape Architect...I will be on your panel of judges. #And by the way I love my 615! It's perfect.

[fredfrank]

I once drew the picture on a matchbook and sent it in to be evaluated. The famous artist school said I had potential!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[OdnamNool]

ping! #(lightbulb, lightbulb...)

How about this? #You change the logo each year! #Just think of all the excitement it would generate amoung the mandolin community each year. #Each year's mandolin would have it's unique characteristic. #"I have the 2007 Roarin' Roman Numeral E, you know the year of the ivory bridge." #Or, "I have one of those Italically-underlined Gothic jobbies... 2006. #That's when the added the radiused fret board." #And, (of course)... #"Oh! #I'm one of the lucky ones! #I got the 2005 Bug!" # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Each yearly logo winner would, of course, receive their complimentary Eastman mando...

[EastmanGordon]

Links,
no need to apologise, I'm married and a musician so being in trouble is nothing new to me. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I'll update everyone on the logo as soon as I know anything. Why is it that I start to shake and break out in hives every time someone says logo?
Gordon

[Links]

Thanks Gordon:

Bottom line is that you produce a fine mandolin. I guess that's all that is really important, so maybe I'll just keep my big mouth shut (or fingers quiet) for a while and be patient. Of course, I will probably forget that I said this and pipe in within the next month.

For all you other "posters", ya'll are just plain silly (for which I can totally relate). Fred, I thought your matchbook art was great - send me a hundred bucks and I'll launch your career! Odnam, nope not a tater guy! Sorry! CPD, you are officially appointed to the panel. Pay will be a new 915, but you will have to talk to Gordon to collect!

Gordon, hope you don't mind me (actually ya'll) giving away a couple a dozen 915's as a good will gesture!

[arbarnhart]

Is there actually a Mr Eastman somewhere or is it just a clever play on words?
(Far East mandolins)

[Stillpicking]

OK you guys will probably flame me but here it goes anyway.

Graphic Design is a whole area of study that requires some very different sets of skill and even sub sets of skills that are only acquired by:

An art education that includes post high school courses meaning a college degree in "Graphic Design". Some times called "Communication Design" these are generally 4 year programs with a few good community colleges offering an AAS degree in the above titled areas.

The career area also includes majors in "Illustration" and "New Media" which generally covers career options involving Graphic Design for the web and other electronic distribution of information, products and marketing.

All of the above requires not just a limited understanding or a course taken here or there. One example would be Typography which would normally be at least 2 or more full credit courses completed towards a degree in "Graphic Design" There are also courses in "Print Production" for "Graphic Designers", advanced "Layout" courses and on & on.

Anyway when a college student completes 4 years of the above as a "Graphic Design" major he or she normally will need to pass a professional portfolio review usually consisting of a number of working Graphic Designers. If the porfolio does not come up to the standards set by the college the student will normally have to fix, redo and resubmit the portfolio until it does meet the standard.

Students that go above the standard set are the "stars" so to speak the others will follow the stars, kind of a pecking order but not any different than a lot of professions.

Now to my point finally; I used the word "profession" as a lead into an issue that comes up not only on the cafe here with the Eastman logo but shows up often in my profession.

Graphic Design is a profession as is Architecture, Animation, Fine Art, Ceramics. I for one would not expect to ask a professional involved in Ceramics to design a logo as he or she would not want me to judge a professsional ceramics show. Like wise I would not want to draw up plans for my next house, I would seek out the best Architect I could afford and put the design process in his or her hands.

Now as a client I would have some vested interest but the point here is that you turn to those who do it for a living.

A degree in a field demonstrates the ability to produce results. A designer, working with the client, using his or her skill set (formally learned) should produce a professional long lasting result (logo).

OK now I am ready for the flames guys, I am really sorry about the "non mando" like reply here but I have seen this happen time and time again in my field so it is kind of my personal quest to try and educate by giving my humble opinon.

Peace to all and good luck to the winner who I hope has a Graphic Design degree.

Mike

[Richard Polf]

Stillpicking,

Thanks for an excellent and well-reasoned response. I couldn't agree more.

Richard

[Stillpicking]

Thanks Richard glad to see that there is hope for my humble profession!

Mike

[JimRichter]

Not really going to flame you, but don't entirely agree.

I have seen many people go through a design, music, or other artistic program and not have one ounce of Talent. #Sure they have the education, but don't have the Eye. Having the degree doesn't make you "good," even if you pass the portfolio review.

I recognize the hard work, study, and time required in getting a graphic design education. #However, not having said education doesn't prevent you from going into a career in graphic design. #If someone has put the time and energy into self-study and practice--as well as having artistic talent--then they deserve a career in graphic design. #Ultimately, their "worth" (for lack of a better term) will be deterimined by a potential employer or client. #If they get employed or have clients, then graphic design is their profession.

I went back to school for a second degree about 10 years back. #I studied audio engineering through the Indiana University School of Music. #Anyone who knows anything about music education knows the substance behind this school. #

I saw a lot of snobbery of music school students against those of us in Audio Engineering who played music and gigged regularly, but didn't have any formal music school training. #It was if we weren't true musicians. #

One does not need a music degree to play music in general. #Perhaps if I wanted to be in a philharmonic or dedicate my life to classical music or composing. #But it is very much the case that someone can have a career in music, be quite successful and influential, and never have a music degree (let alone a high school diploma). #Since this is the MandolinCafe, let's look at the number of influential mandolinists who never had a music degree--that would be most of them!

And even though I have a degree in audio engineering, I think it is entirely possible to be a professional audio engineer and have never stepped in a classroom.

In any event, my point is I respect anyone who has put the study into graphic design. #However, it is not a profession like medicine or industrial engineering where one must absolutely have a degree. #Since it is artistically based, it is entirely possible for someone not to have a grahic design (or art, or music ) degree, but have a successful career in that field.

Jim

[bratsche]

Well said, Jim. I am a completely degree-less person who has been working in (classical) music performance since age 18 or so... #and now I'm also making income on the side that's grounded in graphic design (self taught).

And as far as Eastman goes, they could have themselves a "win-win" situation by choosing my logo submission, since I have a modest taste in instruments and don't like that F-style curlique stuff, anyhow! ;-)

bratsche http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[arbarnhart]

There are only a few professions that require licenses and have educational requirements; doctors, lawyers, CPAs, "real" engineers (engineering firms that can certify things) and some others. Architects might be on the list, I am not sure (the services of a structural engineer are required in many cases before you can build from any plan). Anyway, with all due respect, graphic artists are not one of them. I have a friend who was an outstanding artist, winning many amateur contests and awards, prior to getting his formal education in the graphic arts. He now heads a very successful firm and has drawn lots of pictures of people in underwear for catalogs and newspaper ads. He has also done a lot of corporate logos/letterheads and consults about their image. Now he wins contracts instead of contests. Makes a good living, but he hasn't produced anything I would want to display as art in a long time.

I would think that using the mandolin buying public to judge the logo would make the most sense. I would certainly not disqualify anyone for either having formal education or not.

[Links]

Jim:

As the old saying goes "you hit the hell out of Ned" (or something like that!)

I agree with the concept that Mike so eloquently expressed, as far as hiring professionals, and hiring the best you can afford. Particularly in technical fields where education and experience is so important. I am also quite sensitive to those "folks" who think they can do my job better than I, as I mentioned that everyone thinks they can design a golf course. (One of my friend say that there are more golf course architects than there are people!).

But (and a big one at that), art and music are two things where formal training only helps hone a skill or gift that a person is already likely to have. My formal training is in architecture and I can tell you that my freshman roommate had more artistic talent in his little finger than I had in my whole body. The entire five years we were in college, I am not sure he ever completed a project or made it to class half the time and ultimately never graduated, but he had something that could have never been taught. On the other hand I was grinder and graduated.

In your defense, most folks that do not have high degree of skill and creativeness never make it through these types of curriculums. Therefore, I must assume that professional graphic artists are quite skilled and probably would be a good place to start to get professional work (but cetainly not the only place).

[OdnamNool]

What? #With all due respect to everybody's opinion... #I (quite frankly) am flaberghasted! #Now... what was that old "tag" of mine, that Hendrix quote...

"A musician, if he's a messenger, is like a child who hasn't been handled too many times by man, hasn't had too many fingerprints across his brain."

Just so everyone understands... #I have no intentions of winning the logo (ehhhhhhh! #Watch your ears, there, E.Gordon!) contest. #But it is fun, and whoever does win, I will be so happy for them! #

But, why has there been no feedback on the yearly change? #Is that a stupid idea?

[OdnamNool]

P.S. I believe that true art comes from head/hand. Not from a computer. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[arbarnhart]

P.S. #I believe that true art comes from head/hand. #Not from a computer. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Yes, but some form of technology will enter the picture so that others can see what is in your head. Your hand might use an early technology like a manufactured pencil or brush to place grphite or pigments onto processed pulp or woven fibers. Or your hand might move a more modern instrument. Really not that different, IMO.

[OdnamNool]

Heart/Hand.

[groveland]

A big reason there that are so many artistic hacks thinking they can design is because the majority of the population can't distinguish good design from bad anyway. And when in doubt you can always play the "eye of the beholder" card...

On the other hand, it's tough to be an accounting hack and pull it off without the IRS to discourage you, and medical hacks probably don't stay in business long, and hacking architects' buildings fall down. They never threw a hack graphic artist in jail for damage done.

[JEStanek]

This would all be settled if Eastman just choose my logo and put my face on the label inside. My logo was pretty hacked up... I'm sure a pro can clean it up a bit. I say let the customer design their own for a premium (and leave the existing logo-which I think is fine- alone).

Jamie

[EastmanGordon]

Strangely enough this is actually a subject with which I have some actual experience prior to my time here at Eastman. Before I did this my entire career (20 plus years) was in the screenprinting industry. The first company I worked for employed something like ten full time graphic designers with degrees. They spent their days typesetting, doing layouts, doing artistic stuff, all the things that they taught you at design school that could only be done by a specialist. Then the computer arrived and slowly a lot of these tasks were taken over by machines. The designers that stayed employed were the ones who taught themselves how to run the fledgeling PhotoShop programs and stayed up to date with all the newfangled software coming out. The department dwindled down to just a couple of designers and the efficiency of production increased dramatically. Then more user friendly programs came along and businesses started to wonder if perhaps they might be able to get by with some whiz kid computer jockey and a nice clipart program like CorelDraw. It took several years before that industry realised that there is more to graphic design than the ability to manipulate images on a computer screen. Nowadays most of those companies will not operate without at least one trained graphic designer on staff. You can immediately see the difference between a professional job and a none professional. Nowhere, of course, is this more apparent than on the headstock of an Eastman mandolin. We used this logo just to get ourselves into production with the intention of having a professional logo developed in the future. We then set about finding someone to design it for us. The problem of course is that most professional Graphic Designers don't understand the neo-traditional world of mandolins and either come up with something that's too modern or, they look at what's already out there and come up with something that's very derivative. Add into the equation that we need to inlay this design into a headstock meaning that it can't be too fiddly and we end up at stalemate. It's the old story where the customer (us) knows exactly what we don't want but have little idea of exactly what we do want. I used to become exasperated with customers that would tell me that they didn't know exactly what they wanted but that they would know it when they see it. Sadly I have used this very line to several designers now and I can feel the frustration. Which brings me back to the professional graphic designer. Where is the professional that can get his head around what we need and design us a practical, savvy, eyecatching and beautiful logo. I know you are out there.
Gordon

[LilCreekster]

Ahhh, I tried to stay out of this thread but I've been sucked in against my will.... hahahaha.

Just a few thoughts that some of the previous posts have brought up.

For those who don't know me (hello!) I am a graphic designer/illustrator, yes, by training & profession. And yes, I do make a decent living at it ;)

Something I have observed over the years... while not everyone is an artist (and some that call themselves should not) when it comes to evaluation of commercial art, there is nothing wrong, and much benefit from, having non-artists critique. If something is so sophisticated that only other artists can appriciate it, it's failed mightily in it's job as commercial art. This is in contrast to what would generally be considered "fine art" which, yes, you'd hang on your walls. Good commercial art... grapic design, logos, marketing materials ect. needs to speak to the public, or at least your target audience.

I think asking mandolin players for judgement on a mandolin logo is spot-on. Regardless of their backgrounds as artists.

Using non-professionals (educated formally or not) to create your logo is a recipie for getting non-professional results. Not to discourage anyone who is not a professional but has a good idea or aspirations of doing logo work. But a logo for a company, who wishes to appear professional, needs to be done to a certain workmanship standard. This is the core of what I do for a living... I work with generally very small companies to help them create an image of competance and professionalism. It makes a HUGE difference.

The idea that a computer makes art is silly. The idea that computer generated art is not art is equally silly. A computer, a program, is a tool. Just like a mandolin ;) In the right hands, it can create magic, in the wrong hands... well, we all know what comes from that.

[Tim]

There is a significant difference between hiring a non-professional graphic designer to come up with a logo and asking non-professionals to submit designs for a contest. #As cited in the golf course design example early in this thread, you'll get lots of submissions, most clearly lacking for one reason or another. #Since even professional graphic design people can screw up, I'd say this has a better chance of resulting in a good design - assuming the judge knows how to evaluate a commercial graphic.

[JimRichter]

Using non-professionals (educated formally or not) to create your logo is a recipie for getting non-professional results.

I think that is spot on. My main criticism was the assertion that a person couldn't be a professional graphic designer without a degree. The discussion of professional vs. non-professional is a different story. If you want professional results, you should see someone who is a professional. However, it is possible for someone without a formal design background to become such a professional.

Jim

[Links]

Heather, you and Tim are again right on the money! And I think the golf design scenario is also quite applicable. Out of tens of thousands of entries, most go straight to the trash can. It's funny, but the evntual winner of the last conteast had a design background.

Quite often, I tell my clients that amateurs designing golf courses is like the "monkey's at a typewriter" scenario. In a million years they will come up with a "Shakespeare" manuscript, but the other ten million manuscripts are purely trash.

A point that I made in a number of other threads, is that of the logo submissions that I saw (and even submitted) many were much better than the one they presently use. Not everyone will be happy with your new logo, but with some professional help (at least in helping you select a design) you should be able to come up with a good one.

Since one of the posters (I think Heather) mentioned that the mandolin playing (or buying) public will be the ultimate judge, I see not negative in getting some feedback from them. Let Heather pick a half dozen "entries" and have a vote (does not have to be binding - you make the final choice).

[Michael H Geimer]

" The designers that stayed employed were the ones who taught themselves how to run the fledgeling PhotoShop programs and stayed up to date with all the newfangled software coming out. "

[sigh] Print Design (and all non-CRT work IMHO) has been absolutely ruined by the Class of Dot-Com.

I have seen the demise of actual measurement! "What do mean it's too big? The legend says it's 8-inches." But my ruler-on-paper says it's 8.25" That sort of stuff.

A degree in design these days don't mean squat. Used to be that 'design' was the science of making things that work ... rather than making things that look pretty but don't apply themselves well.

So Gordon ... stick what you want on that headstock! Better yet, offer custom inlay work at an upcharge. That way those who want something different can pay for the re-tooling.

I know it's all in fun, but I'm shocked people would ask to get an Eastman for free as a reward for asking you to do custom work. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

- Benig

[Links]

Benig:

First, having a decent logo on an instrument is not custom work!

Second, Gordon is the one that volunteered to "award" an instrument to the winner of the competition.

Third, the poster who stated that computer graphis design programs are only a tool is entirely correct. I would submit that a degree in graphic design is more than "squat".

You are right about one thing. It is all in fun and I see nothing wrong with having fun with something we might be interested in. Please don't be shocked. Incidentally, I just scratched your name off the dozen 915's that I'm giving away for Gordon!

[Jason Kessler]

I gotta say: I don't even know what y'all are talking about.

I've got an Eastman 614, #39, mine for under a month. She's a pip, and no error; soulful bottom, stentorian midrange, and understated highs. Pretty as a day in May, and comfy as an old shirt. Sounds and plays like an instrument 3 or 4 times as costly.

And we're quibbling about the logo?

Tell ya what: if I can get the same quality of mandolin for half of what I paid for my Eastman, I'll happily volunteer to play out behind a logo that says, "I'm With Stupid."

Label me "Entirely Happy."

[JEStanek]

I'm with the Dude from NYC! However, if I can win something for a hacked up logo so much the better. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Y'all should check out the thread in Post a Picture of the Eastmans. I think they all look great. Headstock and all.

Jamie

[arbarnhart]

Links,

The problem with amateurs designing courses is that they don't think about how well it will work because they don't know how. I don't know what makes almost everybody end up in the same spot near the green, but I know I have played some courses where that happens and that spot is usually in pretty bad shape from the traffic. I know that there has to be some thought given to drainage. There is no doubt a long list of factors I am completely unaware of that would likely cause problems with holes I designed. I would just think about what looked good.

The same is true about designing a logo. All I would think about is what looked good. But in the case of a logo, there isn't much else to consider that isn't obvious to most people, especially those who have had a fair amount of exposure to peg head graphics. It can't have any copyrighted image in it; it has to be original. It has to be practical to be inlaid in the allotted space(nothing with a multitude of minute lines or colors or of a size or shape that won't fit). That's about it.

[Links]

arBarnhart:

You are indeed correct! There are more things to consider than just how it looks, as you so skillfully pointed out. Part of what I do involves scale, proportion, practicality, balance, aesthetics, etc. and the same is true with a logo. That is why I suggested that a "professional" at least be on the selection team.

Incidentally, Jamie, you and the guy from NYC have been scratched off the free 915 list, since you love you logos so much. I have replaced you names with Mr. Barnhart. Sorry!

[harmonist34]

For those of you who are graphic designers - I understand your frustration with the general perception that "anyone can do it". To be truly good at graphic design you must have artistic talent and must be knowledgeable about how best to apply that talent.

But the idea that asking non-professionals to design a logo will only yield "unprofessional results" is absolutely ridiculous. This is A logo. One. That's a single idea, a single concept. Anybody, and I do mean anybody, can come up with a great idea. It's in the implementation of that idea, i.e. the translation of it to a digitized form, that the professionals have a huge advantage. But to suggest that a good idea, which in this case happens to be a logo, can only come from a professional is fallacious.

Designing a golf course requires much, much more than designing a single logo. You could stumble upon the idea for a great logo, but you could never just happen upon a full 18 hole layout with every facet of aesthetics, playability, maintainability, etc. covered.

What about those annual best invention contests. Should they only accept submissions from engineers, since non-professionals cannot possibly invent anything worthwhile?

I'm a teacher by trade. If you took various individuals, gave them a subject matter, and placed them in front of a group of 20 kids for 6 hours...I would expect those trained to be teachers to have a more successful day on average. But does that mean that the other teachers-for-a-day would automatically be inferior? Of course not.

Wow. I guess this is why you shouldn't post after midnight. Rather than waste all those keystrokes I'll just go ahead and submit this without rereading it to find all the places where I make no sense.

My approximately 36 cents.

Andy

[OdnamNool]

Everyone is an artist.

[arbarnhart]

Incidentally, Jamie, you and the guy from NYC have been scratched off the free 915 list, since you love you logos so much. #I have replaced you names with Mr. Barnhart. #Sorry!


Cool! If anybobdy needs me, I will be out on the front porch waiting for the UPS truck...


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[JEStanek]

Links,

S'cool, man. My logo wasn't the best anyway. Plus I like the one on mine just fine!

You guys have a good weekend.

Jamie

[J. Mark Lane]

Could someone please pop some more popcorn? #I'm just about out. #<leaning back, propping feet up>

Carry on, folks!

[fredfrank]

J. Mark---You got your Eastman ordered yet?

[J. Mark Lane]

I am waiting...for a rebirth of wonder.

[fredfrank]

Sometimes I wonder. But not all who wonder are lost.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[J. Mark Lane]

BTW, I should apologize to Gordon -- especially after chastising him for hijacking another thread. Sorry, Gordon. My little bit of sarcasm was not directed at Eastman, but at this silly little argument over graphic design. In light of it all, I think I'll do a design of my own, just to prove that even lawyers can be creative, with a little effort. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[OdnamNool]

Right on, Mark! Like I believe... We are all artists. (Least until those man-made fingerprints shade the brain and try to tell ya... NOT!)... Go for it!

[Stillpicking]

Wow!! and to think my first reply on page one started this deep discussion.

OK guys so we are all potential "logo designers" great!

Which one of you designers can explain the difference between a logo and a logo type.

First correct answer will receive a rare limited edition case sticker that I...... designed please no crits on the sticker although some of you may recall that you helped me refine the concept by..... YES! a little contest that I ran a while back here on the cafe.

So I got a few left over so....

I also want to make sure that no one is taking my reply on page one of this thread as a personal thing. It was simply a lone voice crying out for justification of my chosen trade.

[flairbzzt]

#### the logo-play the damn things!

[Links]

Andy,

You are indeed a wiseman to point out that Golf Course Designers are highly trained professionals! You will also be glad to know that you have been added to the list of those to receive a free Eastman 915 (upon Gordon's approval, of course).

Marks name has never been on the list, but just for accuracy Mark, it has been removed anyway!

Odnam's name has been removed from the list for screwing up and putting too long of a "blank" space after his comments. I was going to remove his name anyway, just for general principal.

Stillpicking, you have been removed for trying to take credit for this uplifting thread!

That's all for now. I'll work on my list over the weekend! Mark, go pop some popcorn!

Jamie, you are still off the list even though you wished us a nice weekend. You were being a smart aleck, as you somehow knew I was going to have to go visit my mother-in-law!

[J. Mark Lane]

Well, the only thing better than not being on a list is being removed from the list that you weren't on in the first place. #Of course, simple logic would tell you that the result of this would have to be that you are now on the list. #So...how can I get removed from the list, now that I am on it?

[Links]

I dunno! I'm going to watch Letterman!

[Stillpicking]

Hey wait a minute the "designer debate" didn't get rolling until after my reply which I will never repeat as it got way too artie even for a designer....

Now about putting my name back on the Eastman list?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??

Where do we find the time to be doing this stuff.

I just finished jamming with my buddies for the last 2 hours!!

Peace and have a great weekend!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[OdnamNool]

okay... OKAY! The general principal thing I can understand. But that blank space thing, by jovie...never recognized that! I didn't do it!

And now in order to try to win a free, ultra cool sticker... I'm guessing that "logo" is the picture and "logo type" is the printing... Am I right, am I right?

[Links]

Okay, I''m putting everyone back on the list for a free 915 (with Gordon's approval, of course) until someone says something real stupid (which shouldn't take long). This includes me. If I say something stupid, I'll remove my name. And remember, some "opinions" are also stupid, so you cannot use the fact that it is an opinion to argue your case. Don't try that old worn out arguement that an opinion "can't be wrong".

Scott couldn't possibly be monitoring this thread or he would have closed it long ago!

[JEStanek]

Stillpicking (Ellen?)
I noticed some fine print in your sticker!!!
Jamie

[JEStanek]

Stillpickin,
Your sticker rocks. What do I need to do to get a real one?
Jamie

[Stillpicking]

Define your meaning of "printing" I think your close but not close enough for me to be fully confident that you deserve the grand prize. So I am allowing you to explain the word "print" as a more graphic design term.

Man you would not like being one of my design students, I am really picky!

Give it a go I know you can do it, your close.

[Stillpicking]

First off its Mike and secondly there are copyright laws regarding altering one's copyrighted artwork, except when I say its OK so in this case it was done in fun.

OK I have 3 of these case stickers left let me think about how to do this for a second......?

Ok I will give partial credit for the first answer although not entirely correct the student appears to have a slight understanding of the term. So you get 3/4 of a sticker SORRY just kidding PM your mailing address and I'll send you a "I'll pick, you grin." case sticker.

Now the next 2 people to reply here will each get a case sticker, sorry I only have a total of 3 left.

OK starting NOW GO!!!

[eastcarterman]

Hey stillpicking, I would love one of those case stickers, and I promise not to alter it.

[OdnamNool]

(Yaw, aw, awww...) (excessively rubbing hands together and shifting eyes, back and forth)... Maybe I'll be greedy and get two!

[Stillpicking]

OK we have our 3 winners in the "I'll pick you grin" sticker contest, congrats to all 3 winners!!!

Well you 3 were the only ones that entered but no matter! we have our 3 lucky mando MASed out winners.

OdnamNool you are one of the three if you send me your mailing address through a PM.

To the rest of ALL those who entered.... wait a minute you 3 were the only ones that had nothing better to do on a Sat. night than hang out here on the cafe? Oh well I guess that includes yours truly.

Have a great Sunday!

Mike

[JEStanek]

Horray for me! I won't alter it either.. again.
A logo is a unique design and a logotype is the graphic element of a trademark... or an expression of the essential substance of a particular company, institution vis a vi the Gibson flowerpot or boring Eastman typeface headstock that I like very much.
I don't need a degree. I can still be wrong after a 2 minute google search!
Mike- you say you nit pick... correct me where the definitions are not so correct.

Jamie

[OdnamNool]

Okeedoke, Mike... will do... And thanks!

However, if you notice, I am the Friday night logo-definition winner, AND the Saturday night "next one to respond" winner! (How sad is THAT!)

Anyways... As I see it, there's still one sticker left, because I was just kidding... I don't want to be greedy and hog 2 of 'em! (Although, come to think of it... hmmmm... I might need 'em both!) One for my usual case and one for my new Eastman case! (You know, the one that holds the 2005 "Bug.")!!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[OdnamNool]

Well, Jamie... you snuck in there and put your post in before mine... However, I guess that makes you winner #3! Congradulations!

[red road]

Gordon,

This whole logo thing is crazy. I can’t believe in all the logos that have been sent to you guys, you can’t find anything you like. Why not let the mandolin buying public vote for their favorite.

Mike