Washburn "New Model" tuners & strings

[Joel Glassman]

I bought this model mandolin at a yard sale and am making it playable
for a friend. Its missing one row of 4 tuners on the treble side.
Where could I buy them, and are these tuners a standard size
for mandolins of that era? Not necessary they be a cosmetic match
Here is a picture I found online of the headstock of the same model.
Thanks--Joel

https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--4yjIXM8I--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progres sive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1417073352/aprs4dmwj10jhgcfp1ce.jpg

https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--F4_al-bC--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progres sive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1417073288/mkykik86oealqr0rhlqb.jpg

[Charles E.]

Ebay regularly has vintage mandolin tuners listed. You could also contact Music stores that deal in vintage instruments such as Bernunzio or Elderly.

Most modern tuners have bushings and the spacing might not match.

[NickR]

I have spent quite a while looking for old mandolin tuners on ebay. I can safely state that in all that time, I have never seen tuners the same as those in your photos. They appear to be early 20th century or older and the plates are different to those that appear on ebay most often. I am not suggesting you will never find them on ebay- but it might take a very long time. You might be better to try and find a pair of good vintage tuners that will fit the configuration on your friend's mandolin. You need to bear in mind that old tuners may be a bit sloppy after 100 years of use- and as they will be "gear over worm" as per those in the photo, this tendency exists even if they are in good order especially as manufacturing may not have been quite as precise as it is, these days.

I have no idea if these are any good but this may be as good as you can find. I was lucky enough to buy a set of 1920s tuners for a mere $10 Buy It Now- that were perfect on a 1920s Regal mandolin that had replacement Kluson tuners from the late 30s installed and nearly all the buttons had crumbled. Don't forget the "buyer beware" maxim! Check measurements etc. https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-Bowl-Back-Mandolin-tuners-with-mounting-screws-c-1910/312434081039?hash=item48be85bd0f:g:zxYAAOSwprtcQkH d:rk:24:pf:0


Here is a potentially cheap mandolin- a Washburn that has the same tuners you seek. You could buy it and put the best tuners on your friend's mandolin and then sell it on- with those $25 tuners.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1897-Washburn-Bowl-Back-Mandolin-115/233105610441?hash=item36462d56c9:g:SAgAAOSwZNtcR4q i

[Joel Glassman]

NickR - thanks for your suggestions.
I will check the listings out.
I failed to make clear the pictures above are not of
my mandolin, but it is the same model. Mine only
has 1 set of 4 tuners. If anyone has a similar single set,
I would be interested in purchasing them.
----Joel

[NickR]

You may be able to win that old mandolin for a low price. It may be beyond saving- it needs to be inspected to know for sure. You can always sell it on. Alternatively, just buy a set of tuners but bear in mind, they may not hold tune very well! There is a good exposition of getting tuners to function that was written up by a member of this board and he makes the point that tuner function can often be improved.

[Dan Gellert]

If the goal is playability, why not a whole set of new tuners? Measure the post spacing. My first guess is that would likely be the same as on Gibsons of the period (which also had gear-over-worm), and StewMac sells sets that are supposed to fit those correctly.

[Joel Glassman]

Thanks Dan [and thanks Charles too]
I checked out the Stew Mac catalog. You mean the Golden Age Restoration Tuners right?
The spacing is described as .931 My mandolin tuners are 25mm. This equals 0.984
[also the peg posts are 6mm and mine are 5mm] The tuners look good, but its a major
job to fill holes, recut etc. I might do this if no period tuners are available.
--Joel

[rcc56]

If your measurements are correct, that is an unusual spacing.
Remember that Stew-mac's measurements are center to center.
Their "restoration tuners" are 15/16" center to center, which was standard until sometime in the 1920's.
Modern tuners are slightly closer at 29/32" center to center.
I know of no new tuners that have a spacing that approximates .984".

[pops1]

Rather than fill holes, simply cut the tuners. If you cut thru the center of the attaching screw hole you can change the spacing enought to work. The plates will still attach with the same screws thru the same holes, just that they won't bind the tuners. I did this with my '22 A2 a couple decades ago when there were no tuners that would fit. They still work fine and I didn't have to modify the mandolin. Don't mind modifying a set of new tuners.

[NickR]

Here are the search words for another early 1900s mandolin- a complete wreck on ebay.com:

Antique Beetleback Mandolin Needs Front Fixed Nice Wood Wolframe Columbus OH

I think the tuners would suit your Washburn okay while the tailpiece is also worth hanging on to but the mandolin is a goner. The tuners look like the set I got for $10. However, it is $65 BIN- but you could recoup a lot of that from the tailpiece itself meaning that the tuners are a reasonable buy- subject to postage. You could buy it and ask the seller to take off the tuners, tailpiece and retaining screws and bridge and send them to you foregoing the horror of contemplating the husk.

[Joel Glassman]

Thanks for the suggestion Nick. The tuners look like the same. I'll have to think about this.
Did you see the shipping cost? $71 for a $65 mandolin :^)

Pops 1 this is a very good idea!
Part of the problem here is trusting someone selling a 100 year old
"mechanical apparatus" on Ebay. Could be a crap shoot.

rcc56: I will probably buy the Stew Mac restoration tuners and find a way to
make them work. Would rather use period tuners but so it goes. Maybe in the
future someone will restore it to being an antique.

[pops1]

Thanks for the suggestion Nick. The tuners look like the same. I'll have to think about this.
Did you see the shipping cost? $71 for a $65 mandolin :^)

Pops 1 this is a very good idea!
Part of the problem here is trusting someone selling a 100 year old
"mechanical apparatus" on Ebay. Could be a crap shoot.

rcc56: I will probably buy the Stew Mac restoration tuners and find a way to
make them work. Would rather use period tuners but so it goes. Maybe in the
future someone will restore it to being an antique.

When I cut the tuners I use new modern tuners, not from ebay. I don't feel the need to preserve a new set of tuners.

[Joel Glassman]

This got resolved in an interesting way. I mentioned looking for period tuners to a
banjo playing friend. He had used a mandolin banjo pot to make a frailing banjo,
and had no use for the tuners. They are mine now.

[Charles E.]

Excellent! Let us know how it turns out.

[Joel Glassman]

Thanks Charles I will. We glued a crack closed on the back today, using straps held against
the bowl over rubber strips. My friend, who played violin as a child will be learning on this instrument.
He is a boat builder and remarked how the bowl, w/wood facets, reminded him of a boat.
We're wood workers, but not luthiers, and are sort of adapting our skills. The next step is use
a piece of maple for a bridge mock-up. This will establish the right height and curve for the strings,
and keep us from wrecking the real bridge. :^) The original fingerboard was damaged and I had
someone make a radiused replacement. Also cleaned the instrument. It was very dirty! Some evidence of repairs on the bowl. Seems thin packing tape was used and I can see how the adhesive melted the finish. Its not terribly obvious and could probably be french polished out.

[Charles E.]

Joel, it so happens that I am a luthier (on sabbatical) and currently building a strip-kayak with a couple of other guys.

So far it has been a fun if not challenging build. Just remember, never use hot hide glue on a boat and never use epoxy in instrument repair. ;)

[Joel Glassman]

Charles -
I wonder if there was a time when hot hide glue was the best option for boats...
We are working on my friend's 30' wood sailboat at the same time as the mando.
Basically it involves removing 50% of the wood and using it for patterns to make
replacement parts. There's an equilibrium between dealing with previous poor repairs
and "out-of-spec" issues, and an original [imagined] symmetry. Insist on perfection
and it will take years, but no matter what we do, the boat will move through the water!
Its a money pit too. At least its not my money.
cheers--Joel