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mandoman15
Jul-27-2005, 8:36am
howdy all, i'm in the process of buying this washburn bowlback mandolin, the lady i'm buying from got it in 1979 has had it these last thirty years. the patent date on the tailpiece says 1891...what do you think i can't post pictures, i'm to inept to figure it out, but...its in very nice condition, with some pick wear in the usual spots, it has a simple black pickguard, and 12 ribs on the back alternating flamed maple and a dark walnut. It comes with a canvas case... it has a hinged tailpiece, and the ebony fretboard has inlays on the 5, 7, 12 the 7 is a diamond and the 5th is a circle. dont know if thats significant to the dating process lastly it has 7 ply binding, wbwrwdw the r being red?... anyway what say ya'll?

mandoman15
Jul-27-2005, 10:17am
i have a question, can you from the serial number tell when it was made? if so how.. is there a chart or something online to figure that out??? thanks for all input!

Jim Garber
Jul-27-2005, 1:00pm
John,

IM me for my email and I can put the pics online for you.

Sounds like 1890s Washburn. Here is a style 71 from around 1892 that was on eBay some time ago.

Jim

Jim Garber
Jul-27-2005, 1:02pm
This seems pretty close to your description: same fretboard inlays and binding pattern.

According to the seller the label states "George Washburn-New Model##27100"

Jim

mandoman15
Jul-27-2005, 4:26pm
wow, i found it's twin...exact same mando...really cool!thanks for your help, i now know alot more!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

mandoman15
Jul-28-2005, 4:12pm
how does this particular model sound??? can you post pic os the lable???

Jim Garber
Jul-28-2005, 4:25pm
John:
Sorry, I don't own that mandolin... I just collect the jpegs and there wasn't one from that posting on eBay.

Jim

mandoman15
Aug-01-2005, 9:48pm
is anyone out there know anything about this model, or teh old washburns in general, i haven't really been able to find out anything online. I was looking to find out about how common these mandolinsa are, and what they typiically go for (so i can see what kind of deal i got)i appreciate all input!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Eugene
Aug-01-2005, 10:36pm
Sad to say, Washburn mandolins are massively abundant and thus worth precious little. #These 1889-1896 models are considerably less common than the later period, but still not usually particularly rare. #Style 71, as pictured above, was their most basic model of this era. #If in good working order, I think this could be expected to take in the $200s; if in truly exceptional condition, maybe in the $300s to ca. $400. #There are a small few characters who are well-versed in Lyon & Healy-made Washburn mandolins--keef and Neil Russell, e.g.--but precious little currently in print of any use. #Here are the most useful couple pages of which I'm aware:

Russell, Neil. 2002. Luthier at Large. Mandolin Magazine, 3(4):37-38.

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 4:19pm
here tis got it in the mail ten minutes ago!!!

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 4:20pm
another

Jim Garber
Aug-09-2005, 4:27pm
John:
I only see the first photo. From that one, it looks in pretty good shape. You might want to check the bridge position as it may be a tad out of position. Usually they are closer to the cant.

Jim

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 7:17pm
wow this mando sounds better than any other bowl back i've played. the inntonation is perfect...:D very sweet very flamed maple

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 7:22pm
and

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 7:23pm
oops

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 7:24pm
hi

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 7:25pm
another

Jim Garber
Aug-09-2005, 8:07pm
John:
It looks like you got yourself a good one. Looks like the tuners might be new replacements but other than that a nice playable one. Make sure that that strings are not heavy ones. Congratulations.

Jim

Eugene
Aug-09-2005, 9:25pm
Wow. The tuners do look mighty new, but I suspect there is at least a possibility they are old and in excellent health. I don't see any evidence of a different tuner plate's footprint in the photos you've posted, John. All told, it looks absolutely delicious. I envy you.

mandoman15
Aug-09-2005, 9:50pm
wow i didn;t know the tuners weren't oroginal, they looked nice, and they hold pitch amazingly, its a great sounding mando, i bought it off the classifieds from a lady in Co for a 150clams not a bad deal there, and i now have a new friend in co! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jim Garber
Aug-09-2005, 10:01pm
The tuners could very well be original -- they just look amazingly clean and shiny, well-preserved. Attached is pic from a similar period Washburn that was on Elderly some time ago.

They do look very similar tho the Elderly one with the aged patina is more of what I would expect. Hey you can't really go wrong at that price.

Jim

Martin Jonas
Aug-10-2005, 4:48am
Lovely bowlback there, John, congratulations! Great price, too, for a playable one. Looking at the strings, are they by any chance J62? If so, they're probably a bit heavy and I would go lighter to preserve structural integrity.

Your photo shot down the neck is nice -- intriguing to see that the Washburn is pretty much completely flat across the width at the cant. My four Italian bowls all have a very distinct induced arch there, almost as much so as a carved archtop.

Martin

mandoman15
Aug-10-2005, 10:51am
the strings are matrin lights and they sound really good on her. an dyes the more i look at pics (like the one above) i'm more and more certain that they are original tuners, no old footprint, and the match up perfectly, they're just really good looking!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mandoman15
Aug-10-2005, 11:09am
heres another with the hinged tail piece, its dated march 10 1891

mandoman15
Aug-10-2005, 11:11am
closed

mandoman15
Aug-10-2005, 11:15am
date

Jim Garber
Aug-10-2005, 11:15am
Yes, John, that tailpiece looks just as "new" so likely it is all-original and well-cared-for.

I find that many of these bowlbacks that have cases are in much better shape than those that lost their cases.

Jim

mandoman15
Aug-10-2005, 12:59pm
ha the cas to this one is i sad repair, its made of canvas and has no
top or handels nothing, it got shipped in a huge crate stuffed with bubbletape!

Jim Garber
Aug-10-2005, 1:28pm
Most of the cases I have seen have been in sad shape but are better for protecting the instrument than non case at all.

Jim

danb
Aug-10-2005, 4:17pm
those tuners match ones I've seen on 190x gibsons too

jasona
Aug-10-2005, 4:32pm
Its stunningly cherry I must say. Nice find!

mandoman15
Aug-10-2005, 8:53pm
cherry.. i was under the impression it was walnut, am i missing something???

Eugene
Aug-10-2005, 9:27pm
Yup, it's rosewood and maple.

jasona
Aug-10-2005, 11:27pm
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Literalists...will be the death of me. (Unless I am missing a very wry joke.)

I am using the alternate definition of "cherry" as meaning "in mint condition".

Bob A
Aug-10-2005, 11:46pm
I think the tuners are original, given the condition of the hardware; also, I suspect the method of attaching the tuners buttons is not in common use today.

I love the hinged t'piece; the only others I've seen like it are on high-end Emberghers. My example had a couple pieces of felt cut to fit under the hinged plate, to damp the strings behind the bridge - a pretty good idea.

Congrats on your new find, and welcome to the Order of the Bowl.

mandoman15
Aug-11-2005, 11:11am
Ooh the Order of The Bowl the O.F.T.B. do we get liscences to pick???

Jim Garber
Aug-11-2005, 2:25pm
No., but check with Bratsche for quality Order of the Bowl merchandise.

Jim

mandoman15
Aug-11-2005, 3:03pm
i was wondering about getting a nice cawse to protect my bowl in, samick seems to make the only one around? are there any other companies out there, i don't want a gigbag, only hardshell for my axes...

Jim Garber
Aug-11-2005, 4:23pm
Best deal is BION Lark in the Morning. Put "CSE 032" into their search. No pics bit it is a decent hard case made in Korea. Not deluxe but it works and for $60 + shipping, you can't beat it. Most likely you will have to pad it for your mandolin.

Jim

mandoman15
Aug-11-2005, 10:21pm
thanks for the bion tip i'm looking into it right now, i thought the order of teh bowl was a joke...then i found the website, i may order teh sweatshirt, and confuse my friends...i mean... order of the..."bowl"...maybe it's just me...oh never mind. Also i was wondering what was meant about the 190x gibsons, i'm a little lost with vintage gibson a stuff, i just found out that this bowl is a model 71 washburn, can anyone tell me about this model..production numbers, where it was made etc. i'm dying to find out more about this whole secret bowl society thing:D

Jim Garber
Aug-11-2005, 10:40pm
i just found out that this bowl is a model 71 washburn, can anyone tell me about this model..production numbers, where it was made etc.
John:
Check out the beginning of this thread. I ID'd your mandolin as a model 71 when you first described it. As far as I know, this one is 1890s prob made in the Chicago area by Lyon & Healy, who at that time had their own manufacturing facilities.

There are two folks who are much more knowledgeable about these: Neil Russell and Huub Pleijsier. Both these folks sometimes post here.

Jim

Eugene
Aug-11-2005, 10:55pm
Indeed, the latter to whom Jim referred is the "keef" to whom I'd referred in also referring to Neil's article. There is no published info on Lyon & Healy-made Washburn serials, but keef and Neil have collected some serial info. Style 71 ran 1889-1896. If you don't see the words "New Model" on the internal wooden medallion, it should predate 1892.

mandoman15
Aug-12-2005, 9:19pm
nice, lyon and healy eh? i'm liking this mandolin more and more!