New (to me) family American Conservatory mandolin questions

[ceejengine]

I picked up the mandolin this August, and have been very happy with my little Eastman. My grandmother found out what I’d been up, and gave me her old one as well- an American Conservatory bowlback, with a serial that looks like 145277.

I know I should be looking at ultra-light strings, but haven’t been able to find a ton of other information about it. Anything in particular I should take a look at before trying to bring it to tune? And other than the Eastman case, is eBay still my best bet to find a case without the extensive duct-tape repairs my grandfather effected?

Thanks for the help- if I can figure out pictures, I’ll attach them as well.

[ceejengine]

Attempting pictures try one...172903172902

[LadysSolo]

I bought a bowlback hard case from Elderly Instruments (NFI). I use gig bags in the house (I have more than one bowlback) but bought a hard case in case I decide to take one out of the house to play.

[ceejengine]

I’m realizing I haven’t seen any gig bags that indicated they’d work for bowlback- are there ones known to work, or am I just not reading item descriptions carefully enough?
I bought a bowlback hard case from Elderly Instruments (NFI). I use gig bags in the house (I have more than one bowlback) but bought a hard case in case I decide to take one out of the house to play.

[kurth83]

I have never found a source of ultra-light ball-end strings, curious if you know of any.

[Jim Garber]

I used to buy on ebay an excellent foam bowlback case for under $50. It was sold by a dealer named violinking but they do not seem to be online any more.

I also bought one of these Warwick Rockbags whch are quite nice gig bags and designed for bowlback mandolins. I the only source I can find it the manufacturer in Germany: RockBag Premium Line - Round Mandolin Gig Bag (https://shop.warwick.de/en/Cases+and+Bags/Other+String+Instr.+Bags/RockBag+Premium+Line+-+Round+Mandolin+Gig+Bag)

Maybe you could contact them and see if there are any dealers near you who carry this or could order it for you.

[TC-in-NC]

I picked up the mandolin this August, and have been very happy with my little Eastman. My grandmother found out what I’d been up, and gave me her old one as well- an American Conservatory bowlback, with a serial that looks like 145277.

I know I should be looking at ultra-light strings, but haven’t been able to find a ton of other information about it. Anything in particular I should take a look at before trying to bring it to tune? And other than the Eastman case, is eBay still my best bet to find a case without the extensive duct-tape repairs my grandfather effected?

Thanks for the help- if I can figure out pictures, I’ll attach them as well.

Hi - I just did a quick check on the interwebs….one of the vendors advertised on the Café - Elderly Instruments - offers a bowl back mandolin case that (depending on your instrument's dimensions) might be worth considering. NFI.

Hope this helps!

Tammy

[Jim Garber]

Links always help. Tammy, do you mean this chipboard case (https://www.elderly.com/accessories/cases-gigbags/mandolin-family-cases-gigbags/bowlback-mandolin-chipboard-case.htm)?

172907

[MikeEdgerton]

I used to buy on ebay an excellent foam bowlback case for under $50. It was sold by a dealer named violinking but they do not seem to be online any more...

Gary is online on Reverb as GLMusicStore (https://reverb.com/shop/gl-music-store). I have no idea if he's still selling those cases.

[Jim Garber]

Gary is online on Reverb as GLMusicStore (https://reverb.com/shop/gl-music-store). I have no idea if he's still selling those cases.

Thanks, Mike. I never new them as GL Music. I had an aol address direct to a woman at violinking. I guess they were the last seller who had them on eBay as houstonbrass?

I have no need for anymore for those but they were great—protective, very light with room for picks etc and came with two straps to carry. They were under $50, too. I think I own at least three of them.

172908

[kurth83]

Ok, somehow I got lucky with google today when previous attempts failed, this has been holding me back from buying a bowlback, but here is a source of ultra-light ball end strings:

http://cliffordessex.net/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=55

They appear to be in London.

[ceejengine]

Those foam cases look like they’d be ideal- a pity it doesn’t look like they have any in their current stock! I’d found mention of the chipboard and RockBag; off to see if I can’t find a dealer for the RockBag that will ship me the bag for less than the cost of it in the first place!

[NickR]

I get my GHS ultra light 09-32 A240 set of strings from Strings and Beyond- very competitive on price as well but they are LOOP -ENDED.

[multidon]

Why all this talk about ball end ultra light strings? Loop end should work fine on that tailpiece I think. You are right about using ultra lights. Lots of instruments like that go ruined by being strung to heavily by folks who just didnt know any better.

Your American Conservatory mandolin is made in the USA, probably by Lyon and Healy or Oscar Schmidt. Probable age is 1900-1920. Looks to be a mid-line instrument, not the fanciest or the simplest. Also looks to be in excellent condition for its age. Should make a nice player. Unfortunately not of high monetary value. Worth maybe a couple of hundred bucks. Numerous ones like that go unsold on eBay every day. The demand for bowlbacks just isn’t there. But of course your instrument has sentimental value as a family heirloom. Priceless. As stated above, string it with ultra lites, get a hard case for it (even the chipboard case would be better than the bag IMHO), and play it and enjoy it!

[MikeEdgerton]

Thanks, Mike. I never new them as GL Music. I had an aol address direct to a woman at violinking. I guess they were the last seller who had them on eBay as houstonbrass?

I have no need for anymore for those but they were great—protective, very light with room for picks etc and came with two straps to carry. They were under $50, too. I think I own at least three of them.

172908

If you do business with Gary it will be at the houstonbrass AOL address.

[ceejengine]

Why all this talk about ball end ultra light strings? Loop end should work fine on that tailpiece I think. You are right about using ultra lights. Lots of instruments like that go ruined by being strung to heavily by folks who just didnt know any better.

Your American Conservatory mandolin is made in the USA, probably by Lyon and Healy or Oscar Schmidt. Probable age is 1900-1920. Looks to be a mid-line instrument, not the fanciest or the simplest. Also looks to be in excellent condition for its age. Should make a nice player. Unfortunately not of high monetary value. Worth maybe a couple of hundred bucks. Numerous ones like that go unsold on eBay every day. The demand for bowlbacks just isn’t there. But of course your instrument has sentimental value as a family heirloom. Priceless. As stated above, string it with ultra lites, get a hard case for it (even the chipboard case would be better than the bag IMHO), and play it and enjoy it!

Thanks for the detailed reply- apologies for seeding so many questions in a wall of text! I'd managed to get to 1900-1920, but didn't know enough about the instrument to have an idea of grade or comparative condition- I really appreciate you sharing your experience. I definitely plan on keeping and playing the instrument, so value isn't a huge concern :)

If the Eastman case will fit it, I suspect that's where I'll end up- I already have a Goya G-10 that belonged to my grandfather whose case is worth about as much as the instrument, so it seems about right for another family piece :)

Before I try and bring it to tune, is there anything I should check on or pay attention to?

[ceejengine]

I get my GHS ultra light 09-32 A240 set of strings from Strings and Beyond- very competitive on price as well but they are LOOP -ENDED.

Thanks for the help- I've found GHS 240s mentioned very frequently in other threads and conversations about bowlbacks, so I think that's the first thing I'll pull the trigger on.

[NickR]

Strings and Beyond have sent me an email to suggest they have 20% off just for today-"CyberMonday" which will mean an even better deal on the strings.

I always tune up to pitch very carefully first time on a new old instrument. I am making sure the tuner units turn okay and do not get too tight to turn. I am concerned that strings might slip- although that rarely happens if they have been wound on properly and just look and listen to check nothing nasty is happening around the bridge or where the headstock may be joined to the neck or the neck heel to the body. However, the chances are everything will be fine but just take care and work slowly and methodically. I like to have a tuned mandolin to hand to remind me of the pitch of the string I need to match and work up to it with care.

I have seen it suggested that older mandolins with this brand may have been made by Regal for Lyon & Healy. The rather complicated relationship between Regal and Lyon & Healy and who made what and for whom is beyond my comprehension I am afraid- it is convoluted.

[ceejengine]

I used to buy on ebay an excellent foam bowlback case for under $50. It was sold by a dealer named violinking but they do not seem to be online any more.

I also bought one of these Warwick Rockbags whch are quite nice gig bags and designed for bowlback mandolins. I the only source I can find it the manufacturer in Germany: RockBag Premium Line - Round Mandolin Gig Bag (https://shop.warwick.de/en/Cases+and+Bags/Other+String+Instr.+Bags/RockBag+Premium+Line+-+Round+Mandolin+Gig+Bag)

Maybe you could contact them and see if there are any dealers near you who carry this or could order it for you.

I went ahead and asked them if they had any dealers in the US- and heard back almost instantly from the CEO. Unfortunately, the answer is no, but I was impressed with how fast they answered the question.

[ceejengine]

Jim, I think I found it in a thread you replied to from circa 2005, but I found another alternative hard-sided case available in the US- a Viking Standard, from Hobgoblin USA (http://www.hobgoblin-usa.com/local/sales/products/GR31070/viking-standard-bowl-mandolin-case/).

Added to the Eastman fiberglass case (https://www.elderly.com/accessories/cases-gigbags/mandolin-family-cases-gigbags/eastman-fiberglass-bowlback-mandolin-case.htm#details), and the chipboard special (https://www.elderly.com/catalog/product/view/id/100797), at least there's a spread of options!

[ceejengine]

I suppose I should've asked in the previous: for American Conservatory mandolins, does anyone have a sense of if I be worried about the fit in any of the above cases? From previous threads (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/threads/49396-Bowlback-cases), I gathered that while sandwiches fit in many of them, there are some fit issues for certain bowlbacks.

[ceejengine]

Thanks- this is TREMENDOUSLY helpful!


Strings and Beyond have sent me an email to suggest they have 20% off just for today-"CyberMonday" which will mean an even better deal on the strings.

I always tune up to pitch very carefully first time on a new old instrument. I am making sure the tuner units turn okay and do not get too tight to turn. I am concerned that strings might slip- although that rarely happens if they have been wound on properly and just look and listen to check nothing nasty is happening around the bridge or where the headstock may be joined to the neck or the neck heel to the body. However, the chances are everything will be fine but just take care and work slowly and methodically. I like to have a tuned mandolin to hand to remind me of the pitch of the string I need to match and work up to it with care.

I have seen it suggested that older mandolins with this brand may have been made by Regal for Lyon & Healy. The rather complicated relationship between Regal and Lyon & Healy and who made what and for whom is beyond my comprehension I am afraid- it is convoluted.

[multidon]

Regarding fit, Elderly says the chipboard case fits instruments up to 8” wide, 6 1/2” deep, and 25 3/4” long. The Eastman case says it fits up to 8” wide, 6” deep, and 26” long. One choice that hasn’t been mentioned is the Viking wood hard shell case carried by Hobgoblin Music for 120 dollars. There are no dimensions given but the site says it “fits most bowlbacks”.

[LadysSolo]

I’m realizing I haven’t seen any gig bags that indicated they’d work for bowlback- are there ones known to work, or am I just not reading item descriptions carefully enough?
I have several bowlbacks (American Conservatory, Lyon and Healy, Puglisi, and (I forget the other one, I've been sick and my brain is not sharp today,)) I bought Stagg bags (NFI) which fit all of them. I don't know if Stagg bags are made anymore, but if you can find them, they were reasonably priced and do the job of keeping cat and dog hair and other debris off of them, and are protective enough for home use.

[Jim Garber]

One choice that hasn’t been mentioned is the Viking wood hard shell case carried by Hobgoblin Music for 120 dollars. There are no dimensions given but the site says it “fits most bowlbacks”.

See post #20.

If you are going to spend that much, I think I would spend a bit more and get the Eastman case. I have three of those for my upperend bowlbacks. Very protective.

[ceejengine]

See post #20.

If you are going to spend that much, I think I would spend a bit more and get the Eastman case. I have three of those for my upperend bowlbacks. Very protective.

That’s the very choice I’m struggling through now. I think between that, and the generally... interesting... nature of Hobgoblin USA’s e-commerce solution, I may justbbite the bullet on the Eastman case. Hopefully my Eastman mandolin, stuck in a run-of-the-mill hard case, doesn’t get too jealous.

[Dave Fultz]

I’m thinking of volunteering as an itinerant musician at our local historical village. Walk/sit around playing old old songs. Either use a guitar, My Alvarez AP70 fits the look somewhat, or get a bowl back mando. I’d love to find an under appreciated one, but all I’ve some across so far are split badly. The search continues and it’s half then anyway.

[Jim Garber]

My very first Mandolin was an American Conservatory. It was a nice one in good condition but bowlbacks were not cool. I traded up for a Vega cylinder back and then when I got into a strong band I traded that for a Gibson A. So it goes.

I like simple Vega or Washburn bowlbacks. Keep looking. You will find one.

[DavidKOS]

My very first Mandolin was an American Conservatory. It was a nice one in good condition but bowlbacks were not cool. I traded up for a Vega cylinder back.

Well, those cylinder backs are cool now.

I appreciate all your input about vintage mandolins, thanks!

[brunello97]

To my mind an American Conservatory bowlback in good condition may be the best value in terms of quality / $$ on the used mandolin market that you are likely to find.

Underpriced, under appreciated, and as Jim said above, often were of even higher quality than some mandolins from the L+Hs flagship Washburn line. Typically quite beautiful rosewood on the bowls.

David Grisman started with one. Jim Garber started with one. What other recommendation does a person need?

Mick

[Jim Garber]

David Grisman started with one. Jim Garber started with one. What other recommendation does a person need?

I wonder if Dawg has a photo of him playing his American Conservatory. Here is mine from my hippie days circa 1970.

173003

[brunello97]

I wonder if Dawg has a photo of him playing his American Conservatory. Here is mine from my hippie days circa 1970.

173003

Just think. That mandolin was only 60 years old when you were playing it!

DG's actually looks more like a Weymann, Jim. Maybe likely, given where he spent his childhood days.

A couple of originals, for sure. :)

Mick

[Jim Garber]

I bought my American Conservatory from the House of Musical Traditions when it was in the East Village in New York. It moved soon after to Maryland where it still is. After I got it I needed a case and found one as a funky shop near Lincoln Center call Locker's Imports. It was not easy to find a bowlback case back then and still isn't today.

[brunello97]

.....After I got it I needed a case and found one as a funky shop near Lincoln Center call Locker's Imports. It was not easy to find a bowlback case back then and still isn't today.


In 1970, the buildings at Lincoln Center ranged from 8 to 4 years old. The Disney Center in Los Angeles opened in 2003. 15 years ago. One quarter the age of Jim's AC bowlback when he purchased it.

"Body and Soul" was written 35 years before I was born, or likely 30 years after Jim's mandolin was made. I still play it all the time.

Time and memory are two of the strangest things we humans have to deal with.

Mick

[ceejengine]

All, thanks again for the help here. I went ahead and bit the bullet, and got the Eastman case. The mandolin itself has been to the luthier, who said it just needed cleaned and restrung! It’s a fun little player, although I’m not a fan of how brassy it is with the very light round wound strings he put on it- but there is plenty of time to explore different string options.