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Mandolin Cafe
Jul-25-2018, 1:20pm
169654

Ivan Kelsall
Jul-26-2018, 2:41am
OK - Not really wishing to grind the old argument into the ground - but ''WHEN'' did Sierra Hull last play any Bluegrass music ?.

IMHO - She now resides in that arena that her former mentor,Alison Kraus chose to occupy, when AKUS decided NOT to call themselves a Bluegrass band,as they played so little of it.

We can't blame Sierra herself,but the actual music played by specific artists should be the main criteria in this - not simply how well they play,
Ivan

Mando Mort
Jul-26-2018, 5:58am
You are right about "grinding the old argument into the ground."

MontanaMatt
Jul-26-2018, 8:29am
We can't blame Sierra herself,but the actual music played by specific artists should be the main criteria in this - not simply how well they play,
Ivan

When, ...last week.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tKN37_ySk6g

gtani7
Jul-26-2018, 9:21am
Is it time for the colossal super mega IBMA thread again?

Anyway, here's allt he nominees, I know the mandolin players but some new to me banjo, dobro and fiddlers I'll have to check out on youtube

https://bluegrasstoday.com/2018-ibma-award-nominees-announced/

[edit] actually last year's thread wasn't that long/convoluted I must be thinking of another forum https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?133804-IBMA-nominees

giannisgrass
Jul-26-2018, 11:40am
Sierra is a great player but i am with Ivan. I hope Ronnie wins,they made the best bluegrass album of the last five years...didn't see mention it much here on cafe though....

Eric C.
Jul-26-2018, 12:10pm
OK - Not really wishing to grind the old argument into the ground - but ''WHEN'' did Sierra Hull last play any Bluegrass music ?.

IMHO - She now resides in that arena that her former mentor,Alison Kraus chose to occupy, when AKUS decided NOT to call themselves a Bluegrass band,as they played so little of it.

We can't blame Sierra herself,but the actual music played by specific artists should be the main criteria in this - not simply how well they play,
Ivan

Didn't she play on a bluegrass legends album this year? Last I looked, this post wasn't about coming out with a bluegrass album. I'm quite sure She is playing bluegrass music weekly at all of the major festivals here in the US. Heck, I just seen a video this very day of her and a handful of others sitting around picking bluegrass numbers at a picnic.

When was the last time Sam Bush came out with a bluegrass album?

Willie Poole
Jul-26-2018, 12:52pm
+1 for what Ivan said....It is a bluegrass contest and sure some of them do play bluegrass when the promoters book them for a festival but with this "new bluegrass " sound it is hard to define where they stand...Jesse Brock just stays within the bluegrass realm and so he won`t get the award although he is as good as any of the above mentioned pickers....They are all great so to me it doesn`t really matter...Just a bunch of hype anyway...

WE all have our opinions and shouldn`t be raked over the coals because we express them...

Willie

Bogle
Jul-26-2018, 1:04pm
IBMA lost the significance (and sheer fun) years ago, accelerating rapidly downhill, particularly since moving the event to Nashville.

Mandolin Cafe
Jul-26-2018, 1:21pm
For the perennially displeased you can rectify the selection process by paying IBMA's membership fee so you can add your vote. It's selection by members, not an ad hoc committee pondering the ad nauseum question "what is bluegrass?"

mtucker
Jul-26-2018, 1:31pm
I favor inclusive rather than exclusive...believe most artists do too! Many of these great young players today cross-collaborate in multiple genres as they well should with their kind of talent and curiosity. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander!

Ivan Kelsall
Jul-27-2018, 2:49am
Quote - " It's selection by members, not an ad hoc committee pondering the ad nauseum question "what is bluegrass? ".

That's fine by me - but could those members state their own ideas regarding what THEY regard as Bluegrass ?. They might be very far from what many Cafe members regard as Bluegrass. It's only become an ''ad nauseum'' topic,because ''ad nauseum'', these folk choose some musicians,who,for most of the time, perform outside the Bluegrass genre. If they didn't ,it wouldn't be argued about so much.

Maybe the basic 'ground rules' simply need revising ?,

Ivan

Mandolin Cafe
Jul-27-2018, 7:13am
Quote - " It's selection by members, not an ad hoc committee pondering the ad nauseum question "what is bluegrass? ".

That's fine by me - but could those members state their own ideas regarding what THEY regard as Bluegrass ?. They might be very far from what many Cafe members regard as Bluegrass. It's only become an ''ad nauseum'' topic,because ''ad nauseum'', these folk choose some musicians,who,for most of the time, perform outside the Bluegrass genre. If they didn't ,it wouldn't be argued about so much.

Maybe the basic 'ground rules' simply need revising ?,

Ivan

Grumping online at organizations and people you don't know from across the pond and will likely never meet won't achieve anything. Unless you join and vote--which means you'd have to open your wallet-- it's all just flapping of the gums online. Here's you complaining about Sierra in 2016 (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?127350-Sierra-Hull-IBMA&p=1527944&viewfull=1#post1527944). Like me to dig up some previous years as well? We could start a little collection or you could gather these and start a blog on the subject. Showing up in the same forum year after year with the same hot air doesn't seem to be working real well. You might want to rethink your strategy. But if you keep it up, and no one on the forum doubts you will, who knows, maybe IBMA will listen.

:))

Ivan Kelsall
Jul-27-2018, 9:24am
Just to put you right on one aspect of this & the previous thread,- I'm NOT complaining about Sierra Hull (or anybody else) as a musician. It's not even really a complaint at all,simply an observation that musicians outside Bluegrass music are being nominated for Bluegrass awards,while other mandolin players who play nothing other than Bluegrass, aren't even nominated.

If you've been reading all the previous year's threads regarding this,you'll know that i'm not the only person puzzled by the annual nominations,
Ivan;)

banjoboy
Jul-27-2018, 10:42am
Grumping online at organizations and people you don't know from across the pond and will likely never meet won't achieve anything. Unless you join and vote--which means you'd have to open your wallet-- it's all just flapping of the gums online. Here's you complaining about Sierra in 2016 (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?127350-Sierra-Hull-IBMA&p=1527944&viewfull=1#post1527944). Like me to dig up some previous years as well? We could start a little collection or you could gather these and start a blog on the subject. Showing up in the same forum year after year with the same hot air doesn't seem to be working real well. You might want to rethink your strategy. But if you keep it up, and no one on the forum doubts you will, who knows, maybe IBMA will listen.

:))

First of all, thank you for all the work that you do on this site. I love the Cafe. But your response to Ivan is kinda harsh. Other folks, including those who are IBMA members have similar feelings. There are many great players out there that don't ever seem to make the list for consideration. I know of a couple bands that are out there working their asses off and are as good a player as any of the ones that ever make it to finalist that are never even considered.

Mandolin Cafe
Jul-27-2018, 11:00am
First of all, thank you for all the work that you do on this site. I love the Cafe. But your response to Ivan is kinda harsh. Other folks, including those who are IBMA members have similar feelings. There are many great players out there that don't ever seem to make the list for consideration. I know of a couple bands that are out there working their asses off and are as good a player as any of the ones that ever make it to finalist that are never even considered.

Lots of people have strong opinions about it. Difference is, most have the decency to not be out here drumming it in public every day, year after year every single time the subject arises, after we've already read it hundreds of times. Lots of people are tired of hearing it--I know because I hear from them. There's a way to fit into the community and there's a way to not. It's everyone's individual choice. YMMV. Those of us sick of hearing about it have just as much a right to speak our mind.

And I've had my fill of it. Go start your own little private bitching session or launch your own web site if you want to continue to wade into the same business we hear every time this arises.

banjoboy
Jul-27-2018, 2:48pm
Lots of people have strong opinions about it. Difference is, most have the decency to not be out here drumming it in public every day, year after year every single time the subject arises, after we've already read it hundreds of times. Lots of people are tired of hearing it--I know because I hear from them. There's a way to fit into the community and there's a way to not. It's everyone's individual choice. YMMV. Those of us sick of hearing about it have just as much a right to speak our mind.

And I've had my fill of it. Go start your own little private bitching session or launch your own web site if you want to continue to wade into the same business we hear every time this arises.

While you are right, that is that this subject comes up every year, and it is your right, as everyone's to express opinions, I always considered this a safe place. I felt you were being harsh on Ivan. Not disagreeing with his stance, but attacking him. Maybe this site is not as safe as I thought. I'll be leaving for awhile. Thanks for the other things you've offered here.

fatt-dad
Jul-27-2018, 3:18pm
haha, when Sam Bush hit the scene, folks didn't call it Bluegrass then! Heck, this battle is at least 45 years old!

The Scene playing, "Nowhere Man" and such. . .

f-d

jesserules
Jul-27-2018, 3:19pm
Why no Andy Statman? Or Don Stiernberg? Or Rich DelGrosso?

Willie Poole
Jul-27-2018, 3:53pm
I`m with Banjo Boy, I thought this site was the one place where we could voice our opinions and not get raked over the coals too badly, we are all intitled to our opinions and do like to express them now and then....I used to make every IBMA function when they were in Owensboro because they were "BLUEGRASS" then and none of this so called new stuff so I guess folks with more money lured them to move to different cities, like Louisville and then Nashville so for my money they can forget about me ever doing anything to help them as far as voting of sending any funds to join them...Nominate whom ever they/you want...I don`t care any more...:whistling:

Willie

bobrem
Jul-27-2018, 7:34pm
I am listening to the live stream of Rockygrass. Playing now are Alison Brown, Becky Buller, Sierra Hull, Missy Raines and Molly Tuttle. Sally Van Meter and Phoebe Hunt joined for the encores. If they kicked out of the bluegrass club in America, send them to me. I’ll take any of them at the festival I book up here in British Columbia.

violinvic
Jul-28-2018, 2:02pm
There are very few playing bluegrass as defined. Most of the singers sound the same. Ditto the mandolin players and Tint Rice clone guitar players. I got rid of XM \Serius because there was no bluegrass music being played on Bluegrass Junction. Reminds me of when my nephew referred to KISS as a rock and roll band. The same thing has happened to country music. Mostly unlistenable formula pablum.

Willie Poole
Jul-29-2018, 11:59am
Most people under the age of 40 wouldn`t know bluegrass if it came up and kicked them in their butt...I guess the folks that do the nominations at IBMA are all under the age of 40...

Willie

mandomurph
Jul-29-2018, 2:06pm
It might be hard for me to technically define bluegrass but I know it when I hear it. I would say I've heard all of the nominees play some bluegrass at one time or another.

Bernie Daniel
Jul-29-2018, 2:10pm
There are very few playing bluegrass as defined. Most of the singers sound the same. Ditto the mandolin players and Tint Rice clone guitar players. I got rid of XM \Serius because there was no bluegrass music being played on Bluegrass Junction. Reminds me of when my nephew referred to KISS as a rock and roll band. The same thing has happened to country music. Mostly unlistenable formula pablum.

Amen!

I used to listen to Bluegrass Junction (channel 62) most of the time on Sirius-XM but as of late I mostly listen to 50's & 60's rock and roll (channels 5 & 6) because they actually play the music that they claim they play.

To suggest that the "pop 40" set of tunes played during the day on Bluegrass Junction these days (mostly the newer stuff) is "bluegrass" seems to me to be a huge stretch -- unless we now decree that bluegrass music can be acoustic music played without a banjo, fiddle or mandolin.

I think the main proponent (or "cuplrit" depending on your viewpoint) for that on the channel is Kyle Cantrell -- I believe he is deliberately trying to expand the accepted definition of bluegrass because he realizes there is not enough new bluegrass material to support a day-long "top 40" format.

I drove to Plymouth, MA from Cincinnati last month in the RV (i.e., 3 days) and had the radio on Bluegrass Junction most of that time -- I heard the same songs at least four times or more in a day. I "OD" on it. (The evening shows on BJ are much better).

I have nothing against Kyle for doing this -- it's his show and his call. Just saying that it is patently obviously to all but the blind that bluegrass is going the way of country -- from pure bold colors to shades and pastels -- homogenized and blended. Eventually bluegrass and country will be indistinguishable ...and some of country seems a lot like pop....

Back to the subject of the thread. I think IBMA is doing the same thing - - deliberately expanding the genre? So IMO that is why you have "bluegrass" instrumentalist of the year being awarded to pickers who maybe spent less then 20% of their time playing bluegrass ("old" defination).

PS

I cannot recall all the details anymore but to say that the "members" of the IBMA are voting for the nominees is misleading? I think that only the "worklng members" of the IBMA have a vote - -that is you have to make your living in bluegrass to have a vote or much impact on the nominees? At least I think that is how it used to be when I last looked into to joining the IBMA and decided it was not worth it.

So I don't care what the IBMA does but I think they look a little silly.

Bernie Daniel
Jul-29-2018, 2:16pm
It might be hard for me to technically define bluegrass but I know it when I hear it. I would say I've heard all of the nominees play some bluegrass at one time or another.

True but should playing "some bluegrass at one time or another" be the criteria for picking the bluegrass instrumentalist of the year? Just saying.

Darren Bailey
Jul-29-2018, 3:44pm
Have listened to the new Del McCoury album three times this weekend, and will probably listen again tomorrow.
Ronnie's playing is both powerful and subtle. He never does anything over the top but manages to convey an intensity that I personally find very satisfying. We are blessed to be living through times when there are great mandolin players recording all kinds of music, but nothing sounds sweeter to my ears than Ronnie on his Gilchrist. Glad to see him nominated.

Bill McCall
Jul-29-2018, 4:13pm
<violates forum posting guidelines. Might be a good idea for you to find some other place on the web to display your opinions.>