Mandocello left hand technique— thumb position

[Mike Rodbell]

Been working on playing a five course instrument. Scale is comparable to a guitar.

I’m curious: for a cello, recommended practice is to have thumb towards bottom of neck, guitar directly beneath, and for mandolin, on top (as if holding violin). Haven’t concluded anything yet, and am leaning towards something between guitar and cello position (dropped wrist).

Any thoughts/tips? There’s a dearth of written instruction.

[thecelloronin]

Hey there Mike, this is a good question. Not only is there a dearth of written instruction, but a dearth of formalized instruction in general. Mandocello's in one of those weirdo positions where it kind of metamorphed out of the classical/romantic bowlback tradition into the modern American folk scene. The only "right" way would therefor seem to be whatever works best. Maybe in time, we'll have as many Mike Marshalls in the world as we have had Pablo Casals, Mstislav Rostropovichs, and Yo Yo Mas to pave out a standard technique. Until then, your body is the best teacher.

Having played m'cello, v'cello and guitar all with some level of proficiency, I can tell you that I hold my wrist most similarly to how I would play classical guitar. This entails a fairly steep neck angle. I do like to keep the wrist somewhat "rounded" (perhaps what you're calling "dropped", though I suspect to a slightly lesser extent) like I would on my v'cello, as I've found that helps keep me relaxed, flexible and strong.

Have no idea if this is helpful. Let us know what you come up with yourself!

[Mike Rodbell]

Hey there Mike, this is a good question. Not only is there a dearth of written instruction, but a dearth of formalized instruction in general. Mandocello's in one of those weirdo positions where it kind of metamorphed out of the classical/romantic bowlback tradition into the modern American folk scene. The only "right" way would therefor seem to be whatever works best. Maybe in time, we'll have as many Mike Marshalls in the world as we have had Pablo Casals, Mstislav Rostropovichs, and Yo Yo Mas to pave out a standard technique. Until then, your body is the best teacher.

Having played m'cello, v'cello and guitar all with some level of proficiency, I can tell you that I hold my wrist most similarly to how I would play classical guitar. This entails a fairly steep neck angle. I do like to keep the wrist somewhat "rounded" (perhaps what you're calling "dropped", though I suspect to a slightly lesser extent) like I would on my v'cello, as I've found that helps keep me relaxed, flexible and strong.

Have no idea if this is helpful. Let us know what you come up with yourself!

Hi there,

That's very helpful. I'd taken some mandolin lessons from Mike on ArtistWorks & found his guidance to be immensely helpful. His feedback on posture and position made a huge difference. Its due to that, that I was asking. It seems that getting those things straight makes sense. I'd studied classical guitar years ago, and lean towards what you're suggesting. I was tending towards somewhere between the classical guitar technique & the more pronounced position used by cellists (which I am not). I'd noticed that many cellists were placing their thumb beneath the D string (a more pronounced position). I'm hoping for something that provides adequate leverage without strain.

Thanks!

[thecelloronin]

Ah yeah fair enough, you were indeed asking about the thumb in the OP. Well, as a cellist, I was taught not to rely on the thumb hardly at all for leverage. Instead, we should maximize what leverage gravity has to give by maintaining a proper arch throughout the fingers, wrist and forearm. Each finger has to land right on the tip to transfer this weight leverage into the string with minimal muscle strain beyond what it takes to stabilize the shape of the arch(es) as you change between notes. To wit, I would often practice scales and arpeggios without the thumb making contact with the neck at all!

How much of this translates to mandocello? Hard to say really. I largely learned on a 1914 Gibson K-1, which had an extremely deep V-shaped neck, thereby forcing my thumb to land more on the right (bass) side of the neck rather than along the spine (in other words, more towards the G than the D). The actual point of contact was generally between the first thumb digit, right below the knuckle, and the declining edge of the spine. This had the effect of supporting my hand in a fairly relaxed position.

It's honestly been a few months since I've had a mandocello to practice on, since I sold that K-1 to fund a custom Pomeroy m'cello. I seem to remember using the thumb somewhat more actively than on v'cello, though I did also practice without the thumb making contact like on v'cello. My hand would feel like a slightly curled "bear claw" and I'd "hug" the strings against the fret using the whole forearm, rather than vice-gripping with the thumb.

[Mike Rodbell]

That explains a lot! I have a cello, but had only tinkered a bit. With my mandocello, there’s definitely a need for support. Certainly want to refine the appropriate touch. I’m finding the classical guitar like position best. That makes sense as I have a 5 course instrument with a neck not terribly different from the classical guitar.

[thecelloronin]

I see you're in Charlottesville. Would you happen to have a Dammann?

[Mike Rodbell]

I see you're in Charlottesville. Would you happen to have a Dammann?

Yes, I do. Absolutely love it. Have had it a month or so.

[thecelloronin]

Yeah, if I were in the market for a flattop, I'd've picked one up myself. Seem like exceptional instruments in engineering and execution!

[Mike Rodbell]

It’s really great & I’ve enjoyed meeting Ralph and Ray. Really talented nice folks. The instrument plays beautifully. Superb sound, fantastic intonation and clean response across the full spectrum (that can’t be an easy trick!

Your project looks really neat! I’m sure you’ll love the results!